Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 15

 &lt; August 14 August 16 &gt;

Category:Genes on human chromosome

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Human genes. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  15:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Genes on human chromosome to Category:Genes by human chromosome
 * Nominator's rationale: Since all genes are located on chromosomes, it seems that categorizing genes "by chromosome" is logical and titling the category that way seems grammatically correct. Gjs238 (talk) 22:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment the category is poorly titled. It has 487 members. Category:Genes by human chromosome is a container category and should have no direct members. Infobox gene, which pulls from Wikidata is apparently populating "Genes on human chromosome" (see User_talk:Ajpolino/Archives/2020). Most of the articles in the category don't have a category for a particular chromosome (a few have a stub category for a particular chromosome; HBBP1 is the only one I've found so far that has a category). It's a bad category, but it's flagging a problem that won't go away by merging the category, and which needs to be solved in some way. Plantdrew (talk) 00:33, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt merge to Category:Human genes instead, and remove the containerize template from that category. There is no functional difference between Category:Human genes and Category:Genes on human chromosome. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:05, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree This option eliminates an unnecessary intermediary category. Gjs238 (talk) 10:48, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:11th-century women rulers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Category:11th-century women rulers

Category:History of the Jews in Western Europe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:History of the Jews in Europe by country. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:History of the Jews in Western Europe to Category:History of the Jews in Europe
 * Alt merge 1 Category:History of the Jews in Western Europe to Category:History of the Jews in Europe by country
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 15, upmerging Category:Jews and Judaism in Western Europe and Category:Jews and Judaism in Europe by region to Category:Jews and Judaism in Europe Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, redundant category layer between continent and country. There aren't any overarching articles about Jews in the entirety of Western Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:32, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, especially for Judaism which has a huge difference between Jews from Western European and Eastern European ancestry. I don't think having this cat hurts anything, when on the contrary it can benefit. Sir Joseph (talk) 02:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * then do you know any overarching articles about Jews in Western Europe? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Alt merge 1 added: I just found out that the "in Western Europe" cat is a WP:REDUNDANTFORK of the "in Europe by country" cat; "in Western Europe" has nothing unique that "in Europe by country" doesn't already have as well (except a long irrelevant catdesc about the UN geoscheme). For your information. I prefer this option over upmerging to "in Europe". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support the alt merge 1. Sir Joseph (talk) 21:58, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes of course this is a better target, per WP:SUBCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:52, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Glad we agree! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:00, 18 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tropical cyclones in 1891

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Tropical cyclones in 1891 to Category:Tropical cyclones by year, Category:1891 meteorology, and Category:1891 natural disasters
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge into the main category per WP:SMALLCAT. Noah Talk 20:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * :Oppose The proposal would remove the relevant article from the category Category:1891 meteorology. Dimadick (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Would you be opposed to merging into Category:1891 meteorology instead? Noah Talk 21:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No, that seems to be a good idea. Dimadick (talk) 09:10, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I changed the proposal to include both that and natural disasters for that year. Noah Talk 12:29, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Dual merge to Category:Tropical cyclones by year and Category:1891 natural disasters, there are hardly any 19th-century sibling categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle, and Category:1891 meteorology? Qwerfjkl  talk  14:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * that is ok for now. The whole tree of Category:Meteorology by year should probably be renamed to Category:Weather events by year and parented to Category:Weather events but that would be a whole different discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Education in Western Europe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:34, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting education in western europe
 * Propose deleting education in northern europe
 * Propose deleting education in southern europe
 * Propose deleting education in eastern europe
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCATs & WP:REDUNDANTFORKs: all subcategories are country-based and already in Category:Education in Europe by country. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, redundant category layer between continent and country. There is only one entry that encompasses multiple countries in a region, namely Category:Sloyd, this may be moved to Category:Education in Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah well-spotted! I had already moved the article there, I hadn't seen there was also a category.
 * The contents of Sloyd are mostly about Finland, Sweden and the United States, not all of Northern Europe and not limited to even Europe as a whole. I'm not sure if we should try to limit a concept like this geographically, because it has evidently spread far beyond its origins. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 02:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The article says it is still taught as a compulsory subject in Finnish, Danish, Swedish and Norwegian schools, so it is not unreasonable to have it in Category:Education in Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:13, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. Although it might make more sense to have it in Education in Finland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway than in Education in Europe? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That is also a possibility. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Terrorism in Western Europe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:34, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting terrorism in western europe
 * Propose deleting terrorism in northern europe
 * Propose deleting terrorism in southern europe
 * Propose deleting terrorism in eastern europe
 * Propose deleting terrorism in central europe
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCATs & WP:REDUNDANTFORKs: all subcategories are country-based and already in Category:Terrorism in Europe by country. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:41, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, redundant category layer between continent and country. There aren't any overarching articles about terrorism in the entirety of e.g. Western Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:14, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Economy of Southern Europe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting economy of southern europe
 * Propose deleting economy of eastern europe
 * Propose deleting wealth in southern europe
 * Propose deleting wealth in eastern europe
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCATs and redundant layers. All Wealth in Fooland categories are already in Category:Wealth in Europe by country. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:22, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, redundant category layer between continent and country. There aren't any overarching articles about wealth or economy in the entirety of e.g. Southern Europe. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:16, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tornadoes of 1091

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: split to Category:Tornadoes, Category:19th-century tornadoes and Category:20th-century tornadoes (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Tornadoes of 1091 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Propose merging:
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1761‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1787‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1795‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1821 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1835‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1840 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1851‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1856‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1865‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1871‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1875‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1878‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1879‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1880‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1881‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1883‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1884‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1886‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1890‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1891‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1892‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1896‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1898‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1899‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1900‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1902‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1904‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1905‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1908‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1909‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1911‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1912‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1913‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1916 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1917‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1918 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1919 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1920‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1922‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1924 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1925‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1927‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1929‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1932‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1933‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1936‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1942‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1944‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1945‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1946‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1947‎ to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Category:Tornadoes of 1948 to Category:Pre-1950 tornadoes
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename so other small categories may be merged in per WP:SMALLCAT. Noah Talk 20:21, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Partial support: There is a parent article for Tornadoes of 1946 (to present year), and a currently a project for 1945’s parent article (User:WeatherWriter/1945 Tornado Checklist). Since there isn’t a parent article for 1945 yet, I would support the categorical naming for Category:Pre-1946 tornadoes, but I’m opposed to grouping 46-49 into a Pre-1950 category, given they all have an article titled their current category. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:40, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter whether or not there is a parent article. Any category with less than 5 articles shouldn't exist unless it is a maintenance category which is what WP:SMALLCAT basically states. Noah Talk 20:45, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * , where did you see the part about anything less than 5 articles, because what you linked, WP:SMALLCAT, doesn’t mention that? Also, looking at SMALLCAT, I see the clause, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme and Note also that this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth. Could you explain why these tornado categories (Example being 1946, Category:Tornadoes of 1946‎, has an article), wouldn’t fit the larger categorization scheme, since it is under Category:1946 meteorology, which is under a parent category of Category:Meteorology by year? Continuing with the 1946 example, the category has 4 entries, excluding the parent article (titled Tornadoes of 1946). Wouldn’t that fit under the clause that it has a realistic potential for growth, given that you mentioned a category needs 5 entries, and it is only 1 entry away, if you exclude the parent article? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:00, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * SMALLCAT specifically mentions a FEW articles and five is more than a few. That is also the same standard that has been applied to other categories in the past. Large categorization schemes are redundant when they do not serve the reader and editors in navigation. This is a clearcut example of overcategorization since it does not serve readers and editors to have only one to a few articles in these small categories. The overall meteorology categories have sufficient article count where these tornado ones do not. Potential for those categories to grow is clearly slim to none considering sources are sparse for tornadoes in this era. Creating a single parent article isn't much of a potential for growth. Noah Talk 21:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Why would we remove all these articles from the relevant categories of meteorology by year? The proposal is non-constructive at best, and damaging for categorization at worse. Dimadick (talk) 21:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * And why should we have tons of categories with only 1 to 3 articles in them? That doesn't serve our editors and readers well in the least. Should they be merged into the meteorology category for their specific year instead? Noah Talk 21:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt split merge to Category:Tornadoes, Category:19th-century tornadoes and Category:20th-century tornadoes in order to comply with more common periodization. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support this. Noah Talk 21:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Alt split merge Gjs238 (talk) 11:08, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Geography of Northwestern Europe
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Category:Geography of Northwestern Europe

Category:Society of Western Europe
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Society of Western Europe to Category:European society by country
 * Propose merging Category:Society of Northern Europe to Category:European society by country
 * Propose merging Category:Society of Central Europe to Category:European society by country
 * Propose merging Category:Society of Southern Europe to Category:European society by country
 * Propose merging Category:Society of Eastern Europe to Category:European society by country
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT and WP:REDUNDANTFORK; all by country cats are already in target cat. It might be that nothing needs to be merged and everything can be deleted, but just in case we might miss something I propose to merge. Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 31 and its precedents. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support, redundant category layer, there aren't any articles about this topic for the above five regions. Note that a few subcategories should not be included in this merge process, e.g. Category:Terrorism in Western Europe and Category:Wealth in Southern Europe should be moved to Category:Western Europe etc instead. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:14, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I CfD'd Category:Wealth in Southern Europe, that was another redundant layer. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:29, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:19, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fellows of the International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Category:Fellows of the International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics

Purging nationality categories from Arab people
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Purging nationality categories from Arab people

Category:Underwater diving people
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  14:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting underwater diving people
 * Nominator's rationale: Too vague to be useful &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 07:14, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to Category:Underwater diving and Category:Water sports people to prevent orphaning. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Categories with disallowed fraction characters
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Categories with disallowed fraction characters

Category:11th-century establishments in Ukraine
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 23%23Category:11th-century establishments in Ukraine