Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 27

 &lt; August 26 August 28 &gt;

Category:Video games set in Northern Europe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  15:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Video games set in Northern Europe to Category:Video games set in Europe
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Just like precedent Category:Northern European countries, anyone can claim any "country" to be "in Northern Europe" without any criteria whatsoever. Apparently Guernsey, the Arctic, the Soviet Union, and the fictional Disney kingdom of Arendelle are all located "in Northern Europe" for all sorts of not particularly obvious reasons. Meanwhile, a game like Medieval II: Total War: Kingdoms (which I actually possess and could recommend) set in the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa (so all continents except Kangarooland and Penguinland) should apparently be categorised as "set in Northern Europe" specifically. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:51, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, redundant category layer between continent and country. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:26, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic history
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 5%23Category:Celtic history

Category:Germanic history
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 5%23Category:Germanic history

Category:Persecution of Turkic peoples

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: dual merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:37, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Persecution of Turkic peoples to Category:Ethnic persecution
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:20, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * We should then also merge it to Category:Anti-Turkic sentiment while that category still exists. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedurally yes, I guess, although I intend to nominate that as a follow-up. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:51, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Dual merge, trivial intersection with language family. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Military history of the Turkic peoples

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:38, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Military history of the Turkic peoples to Category:Military history of Asia
 * Re-parent Category:Battles involving Turkic peoples to Category:History of the Turkic peoples
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * We should then move Category:Battles involving Turkic peoples to Category:History of the Turkic peoples while that still exists. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedurally yes, I guess, although I intend to nominate that as a follow-up. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If that's the plan, please add it to this nom for clarity. - jc37 14:29, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. NLeeuw (talk) 20:58, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge, trivial intersection with language family, with the caveat that I mentioned above. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:48, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Presidents of New York University
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 5%23Category:Presidents of New York University

Category:CreateSpace books

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:41, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting createspace books
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a misleading and inaccurate category, and not a defining attribute. The page says it's for "books published by CreateSpace", but CreateSpace wasn't a publisher per se, but a provider of publishing services. It was what was largely viewed as a "self-publishing platform", where the person submitting the book was the publisher, and CreateSpace provided printing and distribution services. That some books are listed on Amazon description pages as published by "CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform" is simply a matter of whether the publisher bought their own ISBNs or used a free one provided by CreateSpace, and there are plenty of books published through them that are not so listed (I published many myself that way.) Who paid for the ISBN is a matter of trivia. I cannot think of any other cases where the printer or distributor of a book is considered a defining characteristic. The category has very few books (and it looks like in some cases, even those are inaccurate), and, due to CreateSpace being subsumed into Kindle Direct Publishing years ago, the list seems unlikely to grow substantially. Nat Gertler (talk) 22:45, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Sidestepping your point that CreateSpace books aren't even published by CreateSpace, regarding defining characteristics I wonder whether you consider any of the categories listed under Special:PrefixIndex/Category:Books published by to represent a defining characteristic. Largoplazo (talk) 00:06, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Some, yes, because a true publisher will often represent a viewpoint, an editorial purpose, a sensibility that can show up in the grouping. On that list, "Books published by the Church of Scientology" seems a blatant case of a defining characteristic, as the Church publishes books to promote its beliefs, and the books it publishes about its beliefs can be deemed official. While CreateSpace may have had some limitations on what it would carry (I don't recall them at the moment), the default was that what was brought to them got published; the "CreateSpace" ISBN ownership suggested nothing about the nature or quality of the content. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 00:25, 28 August 2023 (UTC)* (and before anyone notes it: yes, I'm aware that the Church doesn't just publish books directly pushing their religion, that they have an imprint that publishes fiction, notably the works of L. Ron Hubbard - but it all appears to be part of a quest for larger goals.) Nat Gertler (talk) 03:25, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:03, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indo-European gods

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:42, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Indo-European gods to Category:European gods
 * Re-parent Category:Phrygian gods and Category:Iranian gods to Category:Asian gods
 * Propose merging Category:Indo-European goddesses to Category:European goddesses
 * Re-parent Category:Phrygian goddesses and Category:Iranian goddesses to Category:Asian goddesses
 * Propose merging Category:Indo-European deities to Category:European deities
 * Re-parent Category:Anatolian deities‎, Category:Indian deities‎, Category:Iranian deities‎, and Category:Rigvedic deities‎ to Category:Asian deities
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT. Essentially the same contents, but nominated cat is slightly narrower than target cat. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, trivial intersection with language family. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Noting that this looks like it does not affect the "proto-European" category tree at all. - jc37 14:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: this is a follow-up to Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_24. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:47, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose WP:NARROWCAT is not a reason to delete asny category. Dimadick (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, "narrow intersection" can be a reason to UpMerge, which, I believe, is what's being suggested here. - jc37 14:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People in Malta

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: procedural close, wrong platform (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:06, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People in Malta to Category:People of Malta
 * Nominator's rationale: People in Malta is use a~s People of Malta, both referring to the same thing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabe56 (talk • contribs) 20:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:People in Malta appears not to exist. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:18, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh my bad, it's appears in Commons :-/ Fabe56 (talk) 21:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural close Malformed nomination. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:21, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Joseon dynasty

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:53, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Joseon dynasty to Category:Joseon
 * Nominator's rationale: To match main article Joseon, also to match similar category . Also concision. toobigtokale (talk) 18:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom (WP:C2D). Some subcategories should be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:16, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Triple Gold Club

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:54, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting triple gold club
 * Nominator's rationale: Per PERFCAT. This was nominated in April 2021 with no consensus reached. User:Namiba 16:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete in the spirit of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:12th-century women rulers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 5%23Category:12th-century women rulers

Category:State attorneys

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Something needs to be done here, but there isn't consensus on what. This probably needs another nomination with a strong path on what to do. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:56, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:State attorneys to Category:District attorneys
 * Nominator's rationale: Same thing, more or less; they even have the same subcategories. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:56, 19 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect per nom. State attorney redirects to District attorney. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * 'UpMerge both to ; the state, county, district, prosecuting attorneys are all jumbled in, so just put it in the national category. -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 11:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This needs a lot of work There should be sub-categories for prosecutors by state and by county and by district. There should also be sub-categories by US state for each type. For example, Category:Public prosecutors in Texas would have Category:District attorneys in Texas and Category:County district attorneys in Texas as children. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

English and British monarchs
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. The alternative proposal was insufficiently addressed to come to a clear consensus either way, but there was consensus against the original proposal. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:24, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Edward VI of England to Category:Edward VI
 * Propose renaming Category:George III of the United Kingdom to Category:George III
 * Propose renaming Category:George IV of the United Kingdom to Category:George IV
 * Propose renaming Category:William IV of the United Kingdom to Category:William IV


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and consistency with article names. Векочел (talk) 14:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  20:01, 19 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename either per nom or else to e.g. Category:Edward VI (England) to clarify that England is a disambiguator rather than part of the name. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:04, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose They need a disambiguator. Categories are different to articles. In an article, you can clarify the scope; that's more difficult to do in category space. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If we are to use the disambiguator, we should also title Category:Henry VIII as Henry VIII of England, Category:Queen Victoria as Victoria, Queen of the United Kingdom, etc. Векочел (talk) 23:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * what do you think of my alternative above? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That seems unhelpful. Including brackets in URLs can lead to broken links when copypasted outside Wikipedia. It also doesn't really improve what we've already got.
 * Right now I Oppose as I see no navigational benefit from renaming. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The alternative is acceptable. Who pastes URLs of categories? Doesn't happen. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:37, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:22, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Question. What problems would these proposals solve? All the standard rationale are meant to be based on the over-riding idea that there is an actual problem?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the category names are not consistent with the article names. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose categories are not articles. It would need extensive policing -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 06:26, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose They need a disambiguator. The name of the country must be included. Dimadick (talk) 13:25, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Germanic archaeological cultures
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  19:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting germanic archaeological cultures
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:NPOV WP:OR. The question whether these archaeological cultures were "Germanic", "Slavic", "Celtic", "Baltic", "pre-Indo-European", a mix, or something else is hotly contested, and many articles say so explicitly. Moreover,Germanic peoples says: Scholars generally agree that it is possible to refer to Germanic-speaking peoples after 500 BCE.[5] Anything before that should be disqualified already, such as the Battle Axe culture (ca. 2800–2300 BCE), which is way too early to say anything about language. "Age" articles such as Nordic Stone Age do not belong in the archaeological cultures tree in the first place. Every single article in this category admits that there is disagreement on how to group this or that archaeological culture, and "Germanic" is always just one of the terms in the mix. See for example Dębczyn culture; lots of options, no definite conclusions. We shouldn't be categorising items by language family if we've got nothing but archaeological findings that point to multiple possibilities, which are explicitly admitted; that would be Wikipedia taking a POV on a contested issue. Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries, as well as Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:52, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:01, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, ethnicity is too disputable. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:08, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The people of an archaeological culture are a defining characteristic of that archaeological culture. WP:CATDEF defines a defining characteristic as "one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic". The Jastorf culture, Oksywie culture and other cultures contained in this category are consistently and commonly characterized as Germanic in modern archaeological literature. Below is for example an exert from the The Oxford Handbook of the European Iron Age:
 * As described in the The Oxford Handbook of the European Iron Age, these cultures had a material culture characteristic of Germanic peoples, were closely interconnected to one another, and emerged and spread as a result of movements of Germanic peoples. They are therefore characterized Germanic in modern archaeological scholarship. WP:CAT states that "the central goal of the category system is to provide navigational links to pages in Wikipedia" so that readers and editors "can browse and quickly find sets of pages on topics that are defined by those characteristics." This category provides our readers and editors with useful navigational tools to get an overview of a set of closely interlinked articles on a topic, which helps users acquire more learning and editors improve Wikipedia further. Deleting this category will be a definite disimprovement for both readers or editors. Krakkos (talk) 10:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That is all very interesting, but:
 * a high degree of certainty is not certain. The source openly admits there is uncertainty and La Tène ("Celtic") influence to be found in the Jastorf culture. Are we also going to categorise it as Category:Celtic archaeological cultures then?
 * WP:WTAF. The articles in question currently do not say so. I would recommend you to summarise this information in the article space first. Especially the Oksywie culture speculates out loud about its supposed connections with Pomeranian culture (currently categorised as "Slavic"), La Tène culture ("Celtic"), and "Western Baltic languages", without providing reliable sources. The word "Germanic" is nowhere to be found in the main body, only in the template and the category at the bottom. The contents of the article give no reason for that at all..
 * You would have to agree that, at the very least, all pre-Jastorf archaeological cultures (pre-500 BCE) will have to be purged from this category, because the first archaeological unit whose population can be considered Germanic with a high degree of certainty is the Jastorf culture. That doesn't leave many items in practice. Reihengräber culture shows that there is no consensus on the ethnicity of this one, with disputes about how to categorise it, and whether that is scholarly useful to attempt at all. And you can point to articles on German-language Wikipedia, but they don't count here. We could still delete this category per WP:SMALLCAT if Jastorf (and maybe Oksywie) is all you've got.
 * Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Most the archaeological cultures in the category are discussed in the two quotes above. As one can see the Germanic character of these cultures is repeatedly emphasized in scholarship. These cultures were closely connected to one another, were materially similar, and their development were closely connected to activities of Germanic peoples. The category is a good tool for getting an overview of the topic and understanding this interconnectedness. This is helpful for both readers and editors, and thus serves Wikipedia's purpose well. Krakkos (talk) 15:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Most the archaeological cultures in the category are discussed in the two quotes above. As one can see the Germanic character of these cultures is repeatedly emphasized in scholarship. These cultures were closely connected to one another, were materially similar, and their development were closely connected to activities of Germanic peoples. The category is a good tool for getting an overview of the topic and understanding this interconnectedness. This is helpful for both readers and editors, and thus serves Wikipedia's purpose well. Krakkos (talk) 15:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Category:Turkic archeological cultures and Category:Italic archaeological cultures have just been deleted. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I think the best argument for keeping would effectively mean that material cultures should be in multiple categories for every different language group they have been associated with in scholarship. I think that would be impractical. Simples consensus about such matters is rare in this type of field, and even in uncontroversial cases scholars tend to see these cultures in terms of multiple influences, not one language. It would also make no sense to have a category which could only be used in a tiny minority of clear cases.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baltic archaeological cultures
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:48, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting baltic archaeological cultures
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:NPOV WP:OR. The question whether these archaeological cultures were "Baltic", "Slavic", a mix or something else is hotly contested, and 4 out of 5 articles say so explicitly. Kolochin culture: The culture has been identified either Balts and Slavs. The presence of Baltic river names in the area has lent support to the former theory. People living to the south of the Kolochin culture are however believed to have been Slavs. Milograd culture: Their ethnic origin is uncertain, but likely to be either Baltic or Early Slavic. etc. We shouldn't be categorising items by language family if we've got nothing but archaeological findings that point to multiple possibilities, which are explicitly admitted; that would be Wikipedia taking a POV on a contested issue. Moreover, the "Baltic" part has almost nothing to do with the Baltic states geographical region, because the finds are all from outside this region (Belarus, Ukraine, Poland, Germany, Russia etc.). Only Brushed Pottery culture is in Category:Archaeological cultures in Lithuania and Category:Archaeological cultures in Latvia (not even Estonia). Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries, as well as Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, only Western Baltic culture was clearly Baltic. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure about that one either. It is poorly sourced, making lots of claims about centuries before any text written in a Baltic language has been attested, and it is improperly linked to other articles. E.g. I'm not sure what the difference is between nl:West-Baltische cultuur (unsourced) and nl:West-Baltische grafheuvelcultuur (unsourced), which is linked to de:Westbaltische Hügelgräberkultur. Are these the same concepts? Different concepts? A lot of this also seems to be based on that rather outdated 1963 book of Marija Gimbutas, the American-Lithuanian archaeologist and anthropologist who came up with the Kurgan hypothesis that sought to associate burial mounds on the Pontic–Caspian steppe with the proto-Indo-Europeans. Although it is the most widely accepted hypothesis, it remains a hypothesis. It shouldn't lead Wikipedians to jumping to all sorts of conclusions. Just like the Hallstat culture is often associated with the Celts, but it's not that clear cut, essentially every archaeological culture has been associated with some language family or ethnic group based on little more than extrapolation of sources written centuries later back in time and place. Much of this is pseudo-scholarship or at best speculative. Wikipedia shouldn't participate in it. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The people of an archaeological culture are a defining characteristic of that archaeological culture. WP:CATDEF defines a defining characteristic as "one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic". The Milograd culture, West Baltic barrow culture, Western Baltic culture, and other cultures contained in this category are consistently and commonly characterized as Baltic in modern archaeological literature. Below is for example an exert from the The Oxford Handbook of the European Iron Age:
 * As described in the The Oxford Handbook of the European Iron Age, these cultures had a material culture characteristic of Balts, were closely interconnected to one another, and emerged and spread as a result of movements of Balts. They are therefore characterized Baltic in modern archaeological scholarship. WP:CAT states that "the central goal of the category system is to provide navigational links to pages in Wikipedia" so that readers and editors "can browse and quickly find sets of pages on topics that are defined by those characteristics." This category provides our readers and editors with useful navigational tools to get an overview of a set of closely interlinked articles on a topic, which helps users acquire more learning and editors improve Wikipedia further. There is lots of potential for improvement on Wikipedia's coverage of Baltic archaeological cultures, and this category helps facilitate such improvements. Deleting this category will be a definite disimprovement for both readers or editors. I'm pinging some active editors on the topic (Antiquistik, Ario1234, Skllagyook, Tewdar, Austronesier, Hunan201p, पाटलिपुत्र, Taromsky, Miki Filigranski, E-960, Turaids, SeriousThinker, Cukrakalnis) in case they have an opinion. Krakkos (talk) 11:16, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Modern archaeological literature is, in fact, sharply divided on the very concept of archaeological culture, which is central to culture-historical archaeology, but widely rejected by processual archaeology. The latter are especially critical of the culture-historical approach's tendency to link stuff found in the ground to the languages spoken by prehistoric people who couldn't read or write and didn't leave any written sources behind. Culture-historical proponents may classify lots of things however they like amongst themselves; that doesn't mean their conclusions represent the consensus in the entire field of archaeology, particularly when processualists reject their very methodology. For the rest, the same counterpoints apply here:
 * The text itself is ambiguous. For one, I see no evidence that Milogrady culture is considered "Baltic". Second, These common features have led to the West Balt barrow culture being considered Okay, but Template:By whom?. Anyone can write that they personally consider it to be so, but does this hypothesis carry a consensus? I don't think so, otherwise this would have been worded more strongly, e.g. These common features have led to the common acceptance of the West Balt barrow culture as a society of Baltic-speaking people, or something. The West Balt barrow culture population is also classified as a western faction of the Balts Again, Template:By whom?. If a bunch of culture-historical proponents are just referring to each other's books and ignoring the likely fact that all processualists reject their conclusions, then we do not have a consensus in an entire field; we've got a hypothesis with a small amount of agreement amongst one school of scholars.
 * The articles currently don't say so. It would be helpful to put that information there instead of trying to convince people of it here at CFD.
 * You can refer to dewiki articles, but they don't count here. Without a clear indication whether any of the 5 articles in the category really qualifies as "Baltic" alone, and not "Slavic" or "Germanic" or "Celtic" or whatever, this category will fail to be WP:CATSPECIFIC, remain WP:ARBITRARY WP:NPOV WP:OR, and we soon run into WP:SMALLCAT territory.
 * In the end, what is WP:DEFINING for these finds is stuff like pottery, barrows, albeit without stone settings, and a settlement model based on small hillforts, not supposed language families which were not attested in surviving written sources until many centuries later. That all remains in the realm of speculation amongst culture-historical proponents, whilst the processualists look on, shaking their heads and considering whether they should ignore it, or once again respond by explaining that one cannot infer language family or ethnicity from a bunch of pottery shards (without any writing on them) found in the ground. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:34, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * , a lot of common, valid categories which were used for many years on Wikipedia are being deleted/merged per proposition of one editor whose proposition is often supported by only one and same editor. Often there's no discussion. The topic about all these categories is very complex and deserves a proper discussion also because the propositions aren't following the mainstream neither the editor is an expert on the topic. However, this is worst possible period for such complex discussion/consensus building because it is summer, a lot of editors who would be active to participate aren't available. Myself have a lack of time to follow all categories discussion's, but arguably Oppose all propositions for now. I think all this activity about categories proposed by Nederlandse Leeuw, which is in good faith, should be postponed for September or October because the changes are possibly making serious disimprovements. Cheers.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 18:53, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * , a lot of common, valid categories which were used for many years on Wikipedia are being deleted/merged per proposition of one editor whose proposition is often supported by only one and same editor. Often there's no discussion. The topic about all these categories is very complex and deserves a proper discussion also because the propositions aren't following the mainstream neither the editor is an expert on the topic. However, this is worst possible period for such complex discussion/consensus building because it is summer, a lot of editors who would be active to participate aren't available. Myself have a lack of time to follow all categories discussion's, but arguably Oppose all propositions for now. I think all this activity about categories proposed by Nederlandse Leeuw, which is in good faith, should be postponed for September or October because the changes are possibly making serious disimprovements. Cheers.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 18:53, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:04, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Most similar CfD's are being closed as delete. I agree that language alone is not a suitable classification for cultures — after all, there are over 50 countries where English is an official language. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 20:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:41, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Category:Turkic archeological cultures and Category:Italic archaeological cultures have just been deleted. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:40, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baseball players suspended for drug offenses
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Listify and delete * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 22:52, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting baseball players suspended for drug offenses
 * Propose deleting major league baseball players suspended for drug offenses
 * Nominator's rationale: Categorization by a non-defining characteristic. WP:TRIVIALCAT User:Namiba 14:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose Defining. Part of well-established tree Category:Doping cases in sport. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If it were defining, it would be commonly mentioned in the introduction of the articles, which it is not. I just surveyed 20 random articles in the MLB category and their suspensions are mentioned in 3 introductions. In the vast majority of cases, being suspended for a drug offense is a mere footnote.--User:Namiba 21:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:04, 19 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:40, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If kept, possibly split between doping and cocaine (see Pittsburgh drug trials for the latter). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Rename Category:Baseball players suspended for doping and Category:Major League Baseball players suspended for doping and remove the cocaine addicts. Doping and baseball are well-connected, other drugs not so much, certainly not in a career-defining way ([cough] Barry Bonds, even if not suspended). Clarityfiend (talk) 01:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Cocaine (and even moreso, amphetamines, for that matter) were used by MLB players as PEDs at least from 1970s onward. That's not to say players don't also recreationally, but some have admitted to using cocaine for performance Tim Raines comes to mind. &mdash;siro&chi;o 01:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comments - If kept, I think Clarityfiend has the right idea, based on the discussion above. But I think that these are better as lists. So Listify/Delete per WP:BEFORECAT. - jc37 14:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Listify/delete per jc37. Doesn't seem defining enough. As above, split if kept. Qwerfjkl  talk  20:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Listify/delete per jc37 and WP:BEFORECAT, particularly the first point on the list of disadvantages: "Categories only list the name of a page. And individual category members cannot be annotated with descriptions or comments, so they give no context or elaboration for any specific entry." If I am told someone was suspended for a drug offense, I would want more information: what drug? Why? How long were they suspended for? Etc. A list can contain that information. HouseBlastertalk 14:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Political violence in the Byzantine Empire
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting political violence in the byzantine empire
 * Nominator's rationale: Seems somewhat needless - the assassinations can just be classified as such. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:05, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose It would remove the assassinations from the category tree of Category:Political violence by country. Dimadick (talk) 10:08, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The assassinations remain part of Category:Political violence by country via Category:Assassinations by country. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom but open to re-creating. Many sons of emperors were blinded to prevent them claiming their rights. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:00, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment True. But Wikipedia's definition of political violence also includes torture, rebellion, and coup d'etat. And the List of Byzantine revolts and civil wars includes many revolts throughout the empire's history. Dimadick (talk) 17:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case we should retain it and populate it from the list above. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:48, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Almost every medieval empire saw violence. Mohanabhil (talk) 17:25, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I added Political mutilation in Byzantine culture. It's a very Byzantine-specific phenomenon, but in itself probably not yet enough to save this category from deletion. We might add Category:Civil wars of the Byzantine Empire, but one may argue all wars are "political violence"; it would make a mockery out of having a separate tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:30, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nationalist terrorism
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Associated discussion was also closed as keep. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:18, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nationalist terrorism
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a bit of dead-end category that also has the problems associated with general "terrorism" labelling. Most of the contents would be better sorted into some sort of "Political violence" type of category. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * What is a dead-end category? And what is the proposal exactly? Merge to Category:Political violence? Or else where would the current content go? And shouldn't Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe be nominated too, for consistency? Marcocapelle (talk) 10:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, yeah, maybe - I've listed Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe above as a proposed merge into Category:Political violence in Europe. (These listings can be merged if preferable.) Iskandar323 (talk) 11:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I was proposing deletion, but yes, I suppose the category could be merged to Category:Political violence and the contents re-sorted into more appropriate sub-categories from there. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:19, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural oppose As long as there are at least 3 subcategories with "nationalist terrorism" in the name, you can't have this parent deleted. Incidentally, are there precedents for this? I saw something recently with Palestinian terrorism being merged to Category:Political violence? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:41, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, precisely, there are precedents for "terrorism", the unsavory label that is the eponymous star of MOS:TERRORIST, being mollified into the more neutral "political violence", which does not make a character judgment as to the perpetrators of the political violence along the terrorist vs freedom fighter divide. I've noted above that a merge to Category:Political violence in Europe (so no deletion) would also be absolutely fine with me. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:02, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay. In that case, defer this discussion until agreement can be reached on the subcategories. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Unsure, Category:White nationalist terrorism isn't a form of nationalist terrorism if I understand correctly, but if so shouldn't that just be purged? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Very unclear scope and it is likely that it has been misused. Mohanabhil (talk) 17:22, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * As the discussion about subCategory:Nationalist terrorism in Europe has just been closed as "keep and purge" it no longer makes sense to delete this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:18, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish websites
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: combine to Category:Websites about Jews and Judaism. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:19, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Judaism websites to Category:Jewish websites
 * Nominator's rationale: No evident difference between Category:Judaism websites and Category:Jewish websites. Propose merging to be consistent with other Jewish media-related categories, such as Category:Jewish media. Longhornsg (talk) 22:11, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 03:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:30, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, proper subcategory of religious Category:Judaism. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:11, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge and rename to Category:Websites about Jews and Judaism per sibling/child Category:Blogs about Jews and Judaism. Grandparent Category:Jews and Judaism is a well-established tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:03, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Jews and Category:Judaism are also well-established trees. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not the point. The point is that these websites are both about Judaism as a religion and Jewishness as a culture/identity. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:30, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The intention is to be about religion and we can just move some articles to Category:Jewish websites if they aren't. For example Jewish English Lexicon should be moved. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, then it is your intention I disagree with. I think it should be about both. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:16, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge both to Category:Websites about Jews and Judaism, per similarly named Category:Blogs about Jews and Judaism. I oppose the nom. I was just merely going to oppose the nom, but the more I looked around at the various trees, and the seeming intent of these categories, these seem to fall under WP:OC. - jc37 19:26, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge both to Category:Websites about Jews and Judaism. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 17:42, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Category:Carnivals in Malta
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 6%23Category:Category:Carnivals in Malta

Category:Female political office-holders
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming
 * Category:Female political office-holders to Category:Women political office-holders
 * Category:Female governors-general to Category:Women governors-general
 * Category:Female heads of government to Category:Women heads of government
 * Category:Female heads of government by country to Category:Women heads of government by country
 * Category:Female heads of government in New Zealand‎ to Category:Women heads of government in New Zealand‎
 * Category:Female heads of government in Poland to Category:Women heads of government in Poland
 * Category:Female heads of government in the United Kingdom to Category:Women heads of government in the United Kingdom
 * Category:Female heads of state to Category:Women heads of state
 * Category:Female regents to Category:Women regents
 * Category:Female regents in Africa to Category:Women regents in Africa
 * Category:German female regents to Category:German women regents
 * Nominator's rationale: rename for consistency, for human people we normally use "women", see subcats of Category:Women by occupation. This nomination was opposed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose all per long-standing nonconsensus on "female" versus "women". See User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Emptying categories out of process. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:32, 26 August 2023 (UTC)


 * pinging contributor to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Further comment: I haven't seen an awful lot of female/women discussions but, from what I remember, if it concerned human beings the rename direction was always from female to women and never vice versa. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose all per long-standing nonconsensus on "female" versus "women". See User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Emptying categories out of process. My !vote remains the same. The example I mention contains numerous human beings, as well as the relevant 2013 precedent: Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 27. I've only been at CFD for 7 months, but I know we shouldn't try to force our preferred adjective "female" or "women" unto the rest of the community. I recall Remedy no. #9 "XfD editors reminded" passed by the Arbcom yesterday:
 * Editors participating in XfD, especially those forums with a small number of regular participants, are reminded to be careful about forming a local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus. Regular closers at an XfD forum may also want to note when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful.
 * Passed 9 to 0 with 1 abstention at 02:12, 26 August 2023 (UTC).
 * This CfR will not reflect the broader community consensus by a long shot. The long-standing nonconsensus on "female" versus "women" cannot be resolved in a low-participation CfR. I recommend a full-blown RfC which pings all relevant WikiProjects to establish a community-wide consensus. Personally I'm not signing up for it, but I think it would be very brave for you to try, and I would certainly participate if you ran it. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:28, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I left a notice at Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Women, I suppose that is the main relevant project for this. This nomination was already listed at WikiProject Women/Article alerts but an extra notification will not harm. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:45, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But this will still not create a very broad consensus. I think we need an RfC. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:29, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose for any of these categories that would include reigning queens. While there are certain categories of heads of state for which "women" is not inappropriate (i.e., it would be for "Women presidents of the United States" when we finally need such a category -- not too long, I hope!) people not only can but have become officially reigning queens before any recognized form of maturity, when they are not actually women but girls. "Female" is age-independent; "Women" is not. And we're not using "female" in its controversial noun sense here. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That implies you do not oppose any of the above but you would prefer to have Category:Women monarchs renamed to Category:Female monarchs. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In a narrow sense, I agree with @Marcocapelle that "reigning queens" is not quite a relevant argument to oppose this nom as a whole (the relevant subcategory is Category:Queens regnant), and Marco is right that this would technically only be a call for renaming its parent Category:Women monarchs to Category:Female monarchs (which I would theoretically support).
 * But I agree with @NatGertler in the broader sense that "Female" is age-independent; "Women" is not. And we're not using "female" in its controversial noun sense here. And the fact that people not only can but have become officially reigning queens before any recognized form of maturity, when they are not actually women but girls is recognised by the existence of Category:Child monarchs. That tree is currently gender-neutral, but one could imagine a subcategory tree about
 * "Category:Girl monarchs"
 * "Category:Women child monarchs", or
 * "Category:Female child monarchs".
 * "Girl monarchs" just sounds odd and unlike any established category tree. Nobody uses "girl" as an adjective (except maybe in Category:Girl groups as in boy band, but even here "girl" and "boy" are probably nouns rather that adjectives). "Women child" sounds like either a contradiction in terms, or like King James Version biblical English (see Numbers 31, for example); we don't talk/write like that anymore in modern English. So if I had to choose, I'd opt for no. #3 "Female child monarchs". It's comparable to Category:Female child soldiers etc., and recognisable as part of both the Category:Child monarchs tree and the would-be Category:Female monarchs tree (if we agree on renaming the latter from Category:Women monarchs).
 * Consequently, that is a good reason to Oppose renaming Category:Female heads of state to Category:Women heads of state, because "female child monarchs" are not yet "women". By extension, Category:Female political office-holders shouldn't be renamed to Category:Women political office-holders either. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe it would apply to the "Female heads of state" in at least some historical instances, although I am speaking well outside any area of expertise. (But yes, my same argument would apply to Women monarchs.... although I cannot say with certainty that there were any child queens who did not survive on the throne to however we measure adulthood -- some fixed age? Local age of majority? Onset of menses? Queen's bat mitzvah? - and thus qualify for a Women monarchs category.) -- Nat Gertler (talk) 13:14, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. The cat desc of Category:Child monarchs says: A child monarch is someone holding an office of sovereign and temporal authority who has not yet reached the age of majority in their culture. Before modern times this generally seems to have been around age 15 or 16. So we could take that as a rule of thumb, but it did vary in time and place. Exactly because most states throughout history have been hereditary monarchies, and thus most heads of state monarchs, there have been many instances of the heir presumptive/apparent acceding the throne as head of state before reaching the local age of majority, and plenty of them were female, and I think it wouldn't be correct to call them "women". That's a word we generally reserve for female adults, not female children. NLeeuw (talk) 13:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose all, there is no use of "men politicians" or the like, but rather "male politicians". I'm not too sure why there's been movement to break the consistency between the two. Furthemore, most styleguides (outside of Wikipedia) reject the idea of woman as an adjective. I'd really like to see Wikipedia's MOS make a consensus on this before we commit further. I also agree with other comments about woman vs girl. Panamitsu (talk) 11:06, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-communist terrorism
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. May need purging. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:27, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Anti-communist terrorism to Category:Right-wing terrorism
 * Nominator's rationale: "Anti-communist terrorism" seems to just be a euphemism for right-wing or far-right terrorism. Suggest merging to "right-wing terrorism" as the broader target of the two. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think Category:Mỹ Lai massacre can be categorised as Category:Right-wing terrorism. Then again, maybe it shouldn't be in this tree to begin with. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:07, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alternately, we should just make Category:Right-wing terrorism a parent of this category. But not all right-wing terrorism is aimed against communism or communists. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Mỹ Lai massacre should be under war crimes, not here. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It's already under Category:Vietnam War crimes committed by the United States, were it should be actually. I've removed the terrorism categories, which are the wrong tree. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:05, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok good. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  21:06, 19 August 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, C LYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 05:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Right-wing terrorism is now a parent of this category. I suppose that a merge is no longer necessary, at most some articles may be moved from Category:Anti-communist terrorism to Category:Right-wing terrorism. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Anti-communism is a well-defined ideology. However, it will need to be purged of those pages that do not mention anti-communism as a motive, or which are not terrorist attacks. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 20:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep per LaundryPizza03 and Marcocapelle. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic fairy tales
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting celtic fairy tales
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Both are already in parent Category:European fairy tales. Follow-up to deletion of Category:Germanic fairy tales, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 29. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:49, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, trivial intersection with language family (and Scottish and Irish aren't even necessarily Celtic). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, Nominator gives flawed comparison with "Germanic fairy tales", which nobody employs (an anthology of German, English, and Icelandic fairytales ?).
 * Whereas titles like Celtic Fairy Tales (Joseph Jacobs) are commonplace.
 * Attempting to deleted "Scandinavian ~" is also inadvisable.
 * Categories are there for utilitarian purpose. Do not try to develop some sort of taxonomic science. --Kiyoweap (talk) 10:41, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete. The only two sub categories are Irish and Scottish, but not everything Irish or Scottish is Celtic.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 13:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * UpMerge to both parents, if not kept. - jc37 14:51, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * the subcategories are already deeper down in the tree of the parents, so merging is not needed in this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * My concern is that that could ptentially change per the below nom. But otherwise, I agree. - jc37 14:45, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic folklore
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 6%23Category:Celtic folklore

Category:Celtic film festivals
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Celtic film festivals to Category:Celtic festivals
 * Nominator's rationale: 1 item. Upmerge for now with no prejudice against re-creation (NPAR). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. The article is already in Category:Celtic Revival too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: United World Colleges
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting wikipedians by alma mater
 * Nominator's rationale: Seems to be a high school alma mater category. Delete per precedent at WP:UCFD/I and elsewhere. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 01:18, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.