Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 28

 &lt; August 27 August 29 &gt;

Category:1980s Russian sailplanes

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1980s Russian sailplanes to Category:1980s Soviet sailplanes
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT. NLeeuw (talk) 22:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, there is only one article ANB (glider) which was introduced in the 1980s (Soviet era) and it is not clear if this ANB still existed after the Soviet Union came to an end. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This is also new to me, but aircraft are categorised according to country of origin + "decade of first flight". So it doesn't matter which aircraft still fly 1 or 12 decades later, nor if it flies in the country of origin or in Liechtenstein, because those data are considered WP:NONDEFINING. NLeeuw (talk) 05:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That is good to know. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian ultralight aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian ultralight aircraft to Category:Russian ultralight aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They are all Russian. NLeeuw (talk) 22:32, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom, and re-parent to Category:Russian civil aircraft. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:19, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Good idea. NLeeuw (talk) 06:01, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian civil trainer aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:35, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian civil trainer aircraft to Category:Soviet civil trainer aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet. NLeeuw (talk) 22:30, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:20, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian agricultural aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:35, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian agricultural aircraft to Category:Soviet agricultural aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet (except the Sukhoi Su-38, which has had only 1 prototype built in 2001, and has apparently been abandoned since 2002. I wonder whether it even meets WP:GNG). NLeeuw (talk) 22:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename and purge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian military utility aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:35, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian military utility aircraft to Category:Soviet military utility aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet (except the Kazan Ansat). NLeeuw (talk) 22:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename and purge per nom. Kazan Ansat should be moved to Category:Aircraft manufactured in Russia. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:25, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. NLeeuw (talk) 06:40, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian military tanker aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian military tanker aircraft to Category:Soviet military tanker aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet. NLeeuw (talk) 22:21, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:26, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian command and control aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian command and control aircraft to Category:Soviet command and control aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet. NLeeuw (talk) 22:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian attack aircraft

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Soviet and Russian attack aircraft to Category:Soviet attack aircraft
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:CATSPECIFIC: They were all Soviet. NLeeuw (talk) 22:17, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. The 1990s subcat contains aitcraft that have been in use long after the Soviet Union ceases to exist so I added that subcategory to Category:Aircraft manufactured in Russia. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:33, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This is also new to me, but aircraft are categorised according to country of origin + "decade of first flight". So it doesn't matter which aircraft still fly 1 or 12 decades later, nor if it flies in the country of origin or in Liechtenstein, because those data are considered WP:NONDEFINING. So
 * Mil Mi-28 (first flight: 10 November 1982, so the "1990s" are not even the correct decade) and Sukhoi Su-34 (first flight: 13 April 1990, so over 1.5 years before the Soviet Union ended and the Russian Federation began) are both "Soviet", not "Russian". And both articles say so in the opening sentence. NLeeuw (talk) 06:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Good to know. I reverted my edit. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Soviet and Russian patrol aircraft
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Soviet and Russian patrol aircraft

Category:Soviet and Russian fighter aircraft
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Soviet and Russian fighter aircraft

Category:Russian and Soviet emigrants
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Russian and Soviet emigrants

Category:Russian and Soviet military radars
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Russian and Soviet military radars

Category:Beauty Pageant

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:38, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting beauty pageant
 * Nominator's rationale: Duplicate of Category:Beauty pageants, plus member articles here do not make sense. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 12:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Creator Rc ramz is relatively new to Wikipedia, has been editing mostly about beauty pageants, wrote the articles for winners of beauty pageants and created a category for them, but does not yet seem to understand how categorisation works. More experienced editor Wikishovel recategorised all articles to Category:Beauty pageant contestants, but in doing so seems to have accidentally emptied the category out of process. NLeeuw (talk) 14:39, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per WP:C2E, see Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_August_28. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment This category has been emptied. Liz Read! Talk! 01:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Liz Yes, see my comment above about how that happened. NLeeuw (talk) 06:31, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic legendary creatures
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Celtic legendary creatures

Objects in museum collections
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Objects in museum collections

Category:Dirty District albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ✗  plicit  07:23, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting dirty district albums
 * Nominator's rationale: Empty category, all album articles present were recently deleted at Articles for deletion/Great Gangsters from the Dirty District due to lack of notability. Sgubaldo (talk) 06:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Category naturally became empty due to deletion of all contents. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:15, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: Empty category due to albums deleted at AfD, and the artist was soft deleted at another AfD per claims of lack of notability. Without anything to link to, this category is rendered entirely useless. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 11:04, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment If a category is empty, tag it CSD C1. It doesn't need a week-long discussion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies, this was my first time nominating a category rather than an article. Sgubaldo (talk) 08:33, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic nations
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:52, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting celtic nations
 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:POV. The main article is already in Category:Celtic nationalism where it properly belongs. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. I've been considering this for months, but article Celtic nations held me back so far, even though that is also full of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, and a constant, needless, almost obsessive repetition of those 6 items as the "Celtic nations". I'm also still waiting for Template:Celts and Modern Celts sidebar to be merged, it's taking forever (almost 3 months after it was closed as Merge). Anyway. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep I'm honestly puzzled even by the nomination. This is about as controversial as Category:Nordic countries. This is essentially a dictionary definition. --Tóraí (talk) 18:06, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Bringing up the Nordic countries is WP:OTHERSTUFF. The dictionary link WP:FAILs because it does not mention the word "nation(s)" anywhere, and does not list any set of countries remotely similar to the 6 members of this category. E.g. there is no Isle of Man. Meanwhile, lots of other sets of countries/regions are mentioned, e.g. a member of an Indo-European people who in pre-Roman times inhabited Britain, Gaul, Spain, and other parts of W and central Europe. This has almost no overlap with the 6 items in this category. NLeeuw (talk) 20:33, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Seriously (from the link above), "...Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and some other areas such as Brittany." Really, this isn't controversial. --Tóraí (talk) 21:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You're counting the hits and ignoring the misses. NLeeuw (talk) 05:52, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, clearly satisfies its own categorisation as a cultural region. What would you replace it with on these six place articles to group them together, or are you claiming they have nothing in common? Crowsus (talk) 18:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * What they have in common is WP:ARBITRARY. Whether it is WP:DEFINING or WP:NONDEFINING is a WP:POV. That these 6 items are inextricably linked to each other and belong to each other to the exclusion of all other countries and regions which could be so defined is a particular POV within modern Celtic nationalism. A POV that may, in fact, enjoy consensus within Celtic nationalism. But it is a POV nonetheless. NLeeuw (talk) 20:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, more detail needed from nom; as of now, the category seems logical and as per common usage. SeoR (talk) 18:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep The concept may be regarded as at best dubious, but the term is widely used, in the UK at least, and this group is what is meant. The subcat doesn't really belong here though. Johnbod (talk) 01:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "At best dubious" doesn't strike me as a particularly objective and unambiguous way of grouping items. I think the article Celtic nations is enough to explain the concept. A category to apply the concept in practice is just not a very good idea, as you indicate. NLeeuw (talk) 05:54, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't indicate anything of the sort - please don't put indications into my mouth. Johnbod (talk) 15:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Absolutely in widespread common usage. And can I remind that it's only a few days since this Finding of Fact by Arbcom? While strictly speaking that relates to conduct discussions, you've replied to three people out of the four who've commented until now, as well as having your own say. Seriously, did nothing at Arbcom sink in? Less is more. Really. <span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 14:50, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep The term is commonly used to group the countries both historically and culturally. Cashew.wheel (talk) 09:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Joseline Hernandez songs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting joseline hernandez songs
 * Nominator's rationale: I created this category back in 2017 for two songs ("Run Me My Money ‎" and "Hate Me Now"), and I have turned both of these articles into redirects as there was not enough evidence of significant coverage in third-party, reliable sources for either songs to have an independent article. This category no longer seems necessary when the subject does not have a song notable enough for an article. Apologies if this does incorrectly. I have never nominated a category for deletion before. Thank you in advance. Aoba47 (talk) 01:01, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment This category has been emptied which renders this discussion irrelevant. If you want editors to debate whether or not we should have a category, it's best not to make it an empty category. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:08, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response. As I have said above, I am not really familiar with the process of deleting a category so apologies if this is the wrong venue or way to approach deleting an empty category. Aoba47 (talk) 17:22, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete per WP:G7. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link to WP:G7. For whatever reason, I had completely forgotten about that. Aoba47 (talk) 17:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-traditional rodeo performers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge already performed - I'm just going to speedy close this. The result appears unanimous, including the category creator - who has already implemented selective merging. - jc37 19:51, 29 August 2023 (UTC)}}
 * Propose Merging Category:Non-traditional rodeo performers to Category:Rodeo performers
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT and WP:NONDEFINING
 * This category groups rodeo performers who had a non-traditional career. Stuart Anderson was restaurateur who may have performed in rodeos, Wayde Preston performed in the rodeo before being discovered as an actor, while Tom Threepersons went into the rodeo after retiring from law enforcement. I'm not sure why Kelly Sutherland is here though because there's no bright line between traditional and non-traditional. And I'm not sure doing a different job before or after being in the rodeo is defining anyway. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Note I removed Chester A. Reynolds from the category, but there's no issue of SMALLCAT here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:32, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge, this is a too subjective distinction. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge, this is a too subjective distinction. Anyone can claim anything is "non-traditional". We could all be claiming that editing Wikipedia articles online is just a "non-traditional way of writing books", but that doesn't help explain anything, and it stakes a claim on how broad the terms "writing" and "books" can be interpreted beyond 'inscribing ink on paper pages bounded together' in ways not everyone might agree. NLeeuw (talk) 20:43, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Fix I adjusted these articles, you can now delete this category. Some of these don't belong in rodeo performers. Some that did I moved there. Others I removed the category because they don't belong and I added different categories to them. I have worked with rodeo article since 2016. <i style="color:#800000;">dawnleelynn</i>(talk) 06:12, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Dawnleelynn While I appreciate your efforts, you should probably not have emptied the category out of process. Now other participants can't see what items were in it when it was nominated. Next time it may be a better idea to tell us here which categories you believe we should move the items to. Ok? NLeeuw (talk) 12:18, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * CatChangesView log; these items were removed in the past 2 days:
 * Tom Threepersons
 * Kelly Sutherland
 * Fern Sawyer
 * Wayde Preston
 * Stuart Anderson (restaurateur)
 * Mickey Gilbert
 * King Block (American football)
 * Ray Knight (rodeo organizer)
 * Margaret Formby
 * Chester A. Reynolds
 * NLeeuw (talk) 12:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Nederlandse Leeuw Yes, you are correct. I should have made a list here of which articles to move to Rodeo Performers and which articles to move elsewhere, and also which other categories applied to some of them. I will not do this again. Thanks for your edification and of course I understand now why I should not have done it this way. <i style="color:#800000;">dawnleelynn</i>(talk) 18:10, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Quite alright. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 19:36, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:FIFA World Cup ceremonies performers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:53, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:FIFA World Cup ceremonies performers
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:PERFCAT and WP:NONDEFINING
 * This is textbook Performers by Performance. Imagine the category clutter if we tracked every individual performance by Shakira, J.Lo, or Ricky Martin. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:22, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 13:34, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - absolutely not defining. GiantSnowman 13:35, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 07:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.