Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 29

 &lt; August 28 August 30 &gt;

Category:D.I.C.E. Award for Mobile Game of the Year winners

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. You can nominate the entire Category:D.I.C.E. Award winners tree now. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 01:53, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting d.i.c.e. award for mobile game of the year winners
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCAWARD. A good faith contribution, but D.I.C.E. Award for Mobile Game of the Year is not a "defining" awards in the way that Academy Award winners or the like are. (Fine to include this in prose / main article's list, of course.) SnowFire (talk) 21:13, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Post-creation addendum: I did not realize category creator had created an entire categorization scheme at Category:D.I.C.E. Award winners. I don't think the D.I.C.E awards qualify as something to track with categories, although improving the list articles on each winner is great.  I guess we should treat this one subcategory as a test case - if there's strong consensus behind deletion as overcategorization, I can make a follow-up nomination for the rest of the category.  Alternatively, maybe D.I.C.E. Award for Game of the Year might possibly squeak by (I'm doubtful, but it's the most notable of the set), while stuff like Outstanding Award for Technical Achievement is deleted.  SnowFire (talk) 21:18, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Conceptual Support/Favor Expanding The nominator is right that this doesn't pass WP:OCAWARD but if we delete the mobile game subcat, the correct action would be to upmerge to [[:Category:D.I.C.E. Award winners. Unless this particular category is nondefining, it probably makes sense to nominate the whole D.I.C.E. tree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Conceptual support, this is an obvious case of WP:SMALLCAT but I would strongly favour nominating the whole tree at once. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Medal "For Strengthening of Brotherhood in Arms" (Ministry of Defence of the Russia)
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 7%23Category:Recipients of the Medal "For Strengthening of Brotherhood in Arms" (Ministry of Defence of the Russia)

Category:Indo-European archaeology

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: reverse merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:55, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Indo-European archaeology to Category:Archaeology by ethnicity
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT Essentially has all the same contents and scope (apart from Archaeology of the Romani people). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  09:00, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, it is largely overlapping indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, the six articles in this category would not belong in the target, and merging would deprive Category:Indo-European history and Category:Indo-European studies of their archaeology subcat. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: tagging the target page as Reverse merge has been suggested. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:41, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The category should only contain broad overview articles, but none of the six articles was a broad overview article. These are the diffs to show what I have boldly done with the six articles:     . Feel free to find different solutions. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * FL has a good point about the deprivation. A reverse merge would solve this. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Manual reverse merge, which will move the article Archaeology of the Romani people into Indo-European. It should be done manually, as the bot would not deal correctly with the parenting. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:48, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support reverse merge over merge as nominated. Perhaps ultimately Category:Indo-European archaeology will become empty but until that happens it belongs under Indo-European studies. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:53, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support reverse merge as second choice as nom. Ultimately, based on linguistic evidence, we can count the Romani people as Indo-Europeans, so it is not wrong to merge them that way either. NLeeuw (talk) 19:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Real estate websites

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza<b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:50, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Chinese real estate websites to Category:Real estate websites, Category:Online financial services companies of China and Category:Real estate in China
 * Propose merging Category:Indonesian real estate websites to Category:Real estate websites, Category:Indonesian websites
 * Propose merging Category:South African real estate websites to Category:Real estate websites, Category:South African websites
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge to parents for now, until more members can be found, as each of these currently only has one member. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:54, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. In addition, the tree of Category:Real estate websites contains relatively few articles altogether. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge Per WP:NARROWCAT. Breaking down this small tree would seem to hinder rather than help navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:German Mizrahi Jews
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:German Jews and Category:Mizrahi Jews. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting german mizrahi jews
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT currently containing a single person. Wikipedia does not have a comprehensive scheme of using the category system to subdivide "[Nationality] Mizrahi Jews" from the general non-Mizrahi "[Nationality] Jews" -- at present, the only two countries that have one of these are Israel, which has a uniquely Israel-specific reason why such specificity is actually necessary (and over 200 people in the category), and the United States, where the category has over 700 people in it. So this would be fine if there were a lot more people who could be filed here, but it's not needed as a category of one since there's no comprehensive subcategorization scheme for this to be a part of. Microcategories of one do not assist navigation of the wikipedia. Bearcat (talk) 11:17, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Upmerge for now to both parents Category:German Jews and Category:Mizrahi Jews, with no prejudice against re-creation, per WP:NARROWCAT. Incidentally, @Bearcat, you might be interested in the discussions currently taking place at Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization/Small with no potential for growth. Cheers, NLeeuw (talk) 12:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Upmerge, double, without prejudice, per WP:SMALLCAT. gidonb (talk) 13:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Dual merge, at least for now, but perhaps even with prejudice against re-creation, dependent on if the Jewish community in Germany is keen on distinctions by regional descent (which I do not know). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: No consensus This closure was discussed at Discussions for discussion * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 16:02, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan to Category:Association football people in Japan by prefecture
 * Propose renaming Category:Association footballers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Association footballers in Northern Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Association footballers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Association footballers in Northern Ireland by county


 * Propose renaming Category:Association footballers by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Association footballers in the Republic of Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by province in Belgium to Category:Cyclists in Belgium by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by province in the Netherlands to Category:Cyclists in the Netherlands by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by region in Belgium to Category:Cyclists in Belgium by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by region in France to Category:Cyclists in France by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by region in Italy to Category:Cyclists in Italy by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyclists by state in Germany to Category:Cyclists in Germany by state
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional people by county in the United States to Category:Fictional people in the United States by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Field hockey players by state or territory in Australia to Category:Field hockey players in Australia by state or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:Footballers by council area in Scotland to Category:Footballers in Scotland by council area
 * Propose renaming Category:Footballers by county in England to Category:Footballers in England by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Footballers by county in Norway to Category:Footballers in Norway by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Footballers by county in the United Kingdom to Category:Footballers in the United Kingdom by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Footballers by province in Belgium to Category:Footballers in Belgium by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Gaelic footballers by county in Ireland to Category:Gaelic footballers in Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Gaelic footballers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Gaelic footballers in Northern Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Gaelic footballers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Gaelic footballers in Northern Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Gaelic footballers by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Gaelic footballers in the Republic of Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Gaelic footballers by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Gaelic footballers in the Republic of Ireland  by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Hurlers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Hurlers in Northern Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Hurlers by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Hurlers in the Republic of Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Ladies' Gaelic footballers by county in Ireland to Category:Ladies' Gaelic footballers in Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of people by county in the United Kingdom to Category:Lists of people in the United Kingdom by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by District in Kosovo to Category:People in Kosovo by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by administrative region in Greece to Category:People in Greece by administrative region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by administrative unit of Pakistan to Category:People in Pakistan by administrative unit
 * Propose renaming Category:People by autonomous community in Spain to Category:People in Spain by autonomous community
 * Propose renaming Category:People by borough, county, or regional corporation in Trinidad and Tobago to Category:People in Trinidad and Tobago by borough, county, or regional corporation
 * Propose renaming Category:People by canton in Costa Rica to Category:People in Costa Rica by canton
 * Propose renaming Category:People by canton in Luxembourg to Category:People in Luxembourg by canton
 * Propose renaming Category:People by canton in Switzerland to Category:People in Switzerland by canton
 * Propose renaming Category:People by canton in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina to Category:People in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by canton
 * Propose renaming Category:People by city in the Philippines to Category:People in the Philippines by city
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Alabama to Category:People in Alabama by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Albania to Category:People in Albania by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Arizona to Category:People in Arizona by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Arkansas to Category:People in Arkansas by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in California to Category:People in California by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Colorado to Category:People in Colorado by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Connecticut to Category:People in Connecticut by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Croatia to Category:People in Croatia by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Delaware to Category:People in Delaware by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in England to Category:People in England by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Estonia to Category:People in Estonia by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Florida to Category:People in Florida by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Georgia (U.S. state) to Category:People in Georgia (U.S. state) by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Hawaii to Category:People in Hawaii by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Hungary to Category:People in Hungary by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Idaho to Category:People in Idaho by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Illinois to Category:People in Illinois by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Indiana to Category:People in Indiana by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Iowa to Category:People in Iowa by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Ireland to Category:People in Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Kansas to Category:People in Kansas by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Kentucky to Category:People in Kentucky by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Kenya to Category:People in Kenya by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Liberia to Category:People in Liberia by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Lithuania to Category:People in Lithuania by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Maine to Category:People in Maine by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Maryland to Category:People in Maryland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Massachusetts to Category:People in Massachusetts by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Michigan to Category:People in Michigan by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Minnesota to Category:People in Minnesota by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Mississippi to Category:People in Mississippi by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Missouri to Category:People in Missouri by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Montana to Category:People in Montana by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Nebraska to Category:People in Nebraska by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Nevada to Category:People in Nevada by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in New Brunswick to Category:People in New Brunswick by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in New Hampshire to Category:People in New Hampshire by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in New Jersey to Category:People in New Jersey by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in New Mexico to Category:People in New Mexico by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in New York (state) to Category:People in New York (state) by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in North Carolina to Category:People in North Carolina by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in North Dakota to Category:People in North Dakota by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in North Korea to Category:People in North Korea by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Northern Ireland to Category:People in Northern Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Norway to Category:People in Norway by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Ohio to Category:People in Ohio by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Oklahoma to Category:People in Oklahoma by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Oregon to Category:People in Oregon by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Pennsylvania to Category:People in Pennsylvania by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Poland to Category:People in Poland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Prince Edward Island to Category:People in Prince Edward Island by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Rhode Island to Category:People in Rhode Island by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Romania to Category:People in Romania by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in South Carolina to Category:People in South Carolina by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in South Dakota to Category:People in South Dakota by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in South Korea to Category:People in South Korea by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Sweden to Category:People in Sweden by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Taiwan to Category:People in Taiwan by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Tennessee to Category:People in Tennessee by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Texas to Category:People in Texas by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Utah to Category:People in Utah by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Vermont to Category:People in Vermont by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Virginia to Category:People in Virginia by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Wales to Category:People in Wales by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Washington (state) to Category:People in Washington (state) by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in West Virginia to Category:People in West Virginia by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Wisconsin to Category:People in Wisconsin by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in Wyoming to Category:People in Wyoming by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:People in the Republic of Ireland by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in the United Kingdom to Category:People in the United Kingdom by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by county in the United States to Category:People in the United States by county
 * Propose renaming Category:People by crown land in Austria-Hungary to Category:People in Austria-Hungary by crown land
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Argentina to Category:People in Argentina by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Benin to Category:People in Benin by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Bolivia to Category:People in Bolivia by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Colombia to Category:People in Colombia by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in El Salvador to Category:People in El Salvador by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in France to Category:People in France by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Guatemala to Category:People in Guatemala by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Haiti to Category:People in Haiti by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Paraguay to Category:People in Paraguay by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in Uruguay to Category:People in Uruguay by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by department in the Republic of the Congo to Category:People in the Republic of the Congo by department
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Abkhazia to Category:People in Abkhazia by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Austria to Category:People in Austria by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Azerbaijan to Category:People in Azerbaijan by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Bangladesh to Category:People in Bangladesh by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Belize to Category:People in Belize by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Bhutan to Category:People in Bhutan by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Botswana to Category:People in Botswana by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Cyprus to Category:People in Cyprus by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in East Timor to Category:People in East Timor by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Germany to Category:People in Germany by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in India to Category:People in India by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Israel to Category:People in Israel by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Ivory Coast to Category:People in Ivory Coast by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Kazakhstan to Category:People in Kazakhstan by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Lebanon to Category:People in Lebanon by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Lesotho to Category:People in Lesotho by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Libya to Category:People in Libya by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Luxembourg to Category:People in Luxembourg by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Malawi to Category:People in Malawi by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Mauritius to Category:People in Mauritius by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Moldova to Category:People in Moldova by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Nauru to Category:People in Nauru by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Pakistan to Category:People in Pakistan by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Panama to Category:People in Panama by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Portugal to Category:People in Portugal by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Russia to Category:People in Russia by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Rwanda to Category:People in Rwanda by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Samoa to Category:People in Samoa by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Serbia to Category:People in Serbia by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Seychelles to Category:People in Seychelles by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Sierra Leone to Category:People in Sierra Leone by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Slovakia to Category:People in Slovakia by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Sri Lanka to Category:People in Sri Lanka by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Suriname to Category:People in Suriname by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Switzerland to Category:People in Switzerland by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in São Tomé and Príncipe to Category:People in São Tomé and Príncipe by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Tanzania to Category:People in Tanzania by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Transnistria to Category:People in Transnistria by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Uganda to Category:People in Uganda by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in Zambia to Category:People in Zambia by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in the Bahamas to Category:People in the Bahamas by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district in the Czech Republic to Category:People in the Czech Republic by district
 * Propose renaming Category:People by district municipality in South Africa to Category:People in South Africa by district municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by division in Bangladesh to Category:People in Bangladesh by division
 * Propose renaming Category:People by division in Tonga to Category:People in Tonga by division
 * Propose renaming Category:People by division in the Gambia to Category:People in the Gambia by division
 * Propose renaming Category:People by division or state in Myanmar to Category:People in Myanmar by division or state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by emirate in the United Arab Emirates to Category:People in the United Arab Emirates by emirate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by federal subject in Russia to Category:People in Russia by federal subject
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Bahrain to Category:People in Bahrain by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Egypt to Category:People in Egypt by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Iraq to Category:People in Iraq by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Jordan to Category:People in Jordan by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Lebanon to Category:People in Lebanon by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Oman to Category:People in Oman by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Palestine to Category:People in Palestine by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Syria to Category:People in Syria by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Tunisia to Category:People in Tunisia by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by governorate in Yemen to Category:People in Yemen by governorate
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island chain in the Marshall Islands to Category:People in the Marshall Islands by island chain
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island group in Kiribati to Category:People in Kiribati by island group
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island group in the Philippines to Category:People in the Philippines by island group
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island in Cape Verde to Category:People in Cape Verde by island
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island in Saint Kitts and Nevis to Category:People in Saint Kitts and Nevis by island
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines to Category:People in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines by island
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island in the Comoros to Category:People in the Comoros by island
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island in the Cook Islands to Category:People in the Cook Islands by island
 * Propose renaming Category:People by island or atoll in Tuvalu to Category:People in Tuvalu by island or atoll
 * Propose renaming Category:People by local government area in Nigeria to Category:People in Nigeria by local government area
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Albania to Category:People in Albania by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Denmark to Category:People in Denmark by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Mexico to Category:People in Mexico by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Montenegro to Category:People in Montenegro by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in North Macedonia to Category:People in North Macedonia by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Norway to Category:People in Norway by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in Slovenia to Category:People in Slovenia by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by municipality in the Philippines to Category:People in the Philippines by municipality
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Andorra to Category:People in Andorra by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Antigua and Barbuda to Category:People in Antigua and Barbuda by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Barbados to Category:People in Barbados by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Dominica to Category:People in Dominica by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Grenada to Category:People in Grenada by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Jamaica to Category:People in Jamaica by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Saint Kitts and Nevis to Category:People in Saint Kitts and Nevis by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by parish in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines to Category:People in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines by parish
 * Propose renaming Category:People by prefecture in Japan to Category:People in Japan by prefecture
 * Propose renaming Category:People by prefecture in the Central African Republic to Category:People in the Central African Republic by prefecture
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Afghanistan to Category:People in Afghanistan by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Algeria to Category:People in Algeria by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Angola to Category:People in Angola by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Argentina to Category:People in Argentina by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Armenia to Category:People in Armenia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Belgium to Category:People in Belgium by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Bolivia to Category:People in Bolivia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Bulgaria to Category:People in Bulgaria by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Cambodia to Category:People in Cambodia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in China to Category:People in China by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Costa Rica to Category:People in Costa Rica by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Cuba to Category:People in Cuba by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Ecuador to Category:People in Ecuador by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Equatorial Guinea to Category:People in Equatorial Guinea by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Fiji to Category:People in Fiji by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Gabon to Category:People in Gabon by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Indonesia to Category:People in Indonesia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Iran to Category:People in Iran by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Italy to Category:People in Italy by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Kenya to Category:People in Kenya by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Laos to Category:People in Laos by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Mongolia to Category:People in Mongolia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Mozambique to Category:People in Mozambique by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Nepal to Category:People in Nepal by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in New Caledonia to Category:People in New Caledonia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in North Korea to Category:People in North Korea by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Panama to Category:People in Panama by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Papua New Guinea to Category:People in Papua New Guinea by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Rwanda to Category:People in Rwanda by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Saudi Arabia to Category:People in Saudi Arabia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Sierra Leone to Category:People in Sierra Leone by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in South Africa to Category:People in South Africa by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in South Korea to Category:People in South Korea by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Spain to Category:People in Spain by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Sri Lanka to Category:People in Sri Lanka by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Sweden to Category:People in Sweden by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Thailand to Category:People in Thailand by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Turkey to Category:People in Turkey by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Vanuatu to Category:People in Vanuatu by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Vietnam to Category:People in Vietnam by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Zambia to Category:People in Zambia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in Zimbabwe to Category:People in Zimbabwe by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to Category:People in the Democratic Republic of the Congo by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Dominican Republic to Category:People in the Dominican Republic by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Netherlands to Category:People in the Netherlands by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Philippines to Category:People in the Philippines by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Republic of Artsakh to Category:People in the Republic of Artsakh by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province in the Solomon Islands to Category:People in the Solomon Islands by province
 * Propose renaming Category:People by province or territory in Canada to Category:People in Canada by province or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:People by provincial or territorial municipal area in Canada to Category:People in Canada by provincial or territorial municipal area
 * Propose renaming Category:People by quarter in Saint Lucia to Category:People in Saint Lucia by quarter
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Belarus to Category:People in Belarus by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Belgium to Category:People in Belgium by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Burkina Faso to Category:People in Burkina Faso by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Cameroon to Category:People in Cameroon by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Chad to Category:People in Chad by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Chile to Category:People in Chile by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Denmark to Category:People in Denmark by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Djibouti to Category:People in Djibouti by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Eritrea to Category:People in Eritrea by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Eswatini to Category:People in Eswatini by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Ethiopia to Category:People in Ethiopia by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Finland to Category:People in Finland by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in France to Category:People in France by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Ghana to Category:People in Ghana by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Guinea to Category:People in Guinea by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Guinea-Bissau to Category:People in Guinea-Bissau by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Guyana to Category:People in Guyana by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Italy to Category:People in Italy by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Kazakhstan to Category:People in Kazakhstan by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Kyrgyzstan to Category:People in Kyrgyzstan by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Madagascar to Category:People in Madagascar by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Namibia to Category:People in Namibia by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in New Zealand to Category:People in New Zealand by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Niger to Category:People in Niger by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Senegal to Category:People in Senegal by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Slovakia to Category:People in Slovakia by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Somalia to Category:People in Somalia by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Tajikistan to Category:People in Tajikistan by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Tanzania to Category:People in Tanzania by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Turkmenistan to Category:People in Turkmenistan by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Uganda to Category:People in Uganda by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Ukraine to Category:People in Ukraine by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in Uzbekistan to Category:People in Uzbekistan by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in the Czech Republic to Category:People in the Czech Republic by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by region in the Philippines to Category:People in the Philippines by region
 * Propose renaming Category:People by regional unit in Greece to Category:People in Greece by regional unit
 * Propose renaming Category:People by republic in the Soviet Union to Category:People in the Soviet Union by republic
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Austria to Category:People in Austria by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Brazil to Category:People in Brazil by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Germany to Category:People in Germany by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Malaysia to Category:People in Malaysia by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Mexico to Category:People in Mexico by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Nigeria to Category:People in Nigeria by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Palau to Category:People in Palau by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in South Sudan to Category:People in South Sudan by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Sudan to Category:People in Sudan by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in Venezuela to Category:People in Venezuela by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in the Federated States of Micronesia to Category:People in the Federated States of Micronesia by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state in the United States to Category:People in the United States by state
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state or territory in Australia to Category:People in Australia by state or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:People by state or union territory in India to Category:People in India by state or union territory
 * Propose renaming Category:People by vilayet in the Ottoman Empire to Category:People in the Ottoman Empire by vilayet
 * Propose renaming Category:People by voivodeship in Poland to Category:People in Poland by voivodeship
 * Propose renaming Category:Politicians by council area in Scotland to Category:Politicians in Scotland by council area
 * Propose renaming Category:Racing drivers by state in Germany to Category:Racing drivers in Germany by state
 * Propose renaming Category:Racing drivers by state or territory in Australia to Category:Racing drivers in Australia by state or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:Rugby league players by state or territory in Australia to Category:Rugby league players in Australia by state or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by canton in Switzerland to Category:Sportspeople in Switzerland by canton
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by city in South Korea to Category:Sportspeople in South Korea by city
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by county in Hungary to Category:Sportspeople in Hungary by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by county in Norway to Category:Sportspeople in Norway by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by county in Romania to Category:Sportspeople in Romania by county
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by district in Portugal to Category:Sportspeople in Portugal by district
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by division in Bangladesh to Category:Sportspeople in Bangladesh by division
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by oblast in Ukraine to Category:Sportspeople in Ukraine by oblast
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by prefecture in Japan to Category:Sportspeople in Japan by prefecture
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in Argentina to Category:Sportspeople in Argentina by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in Bulgaria to Category:Sportspeople in Bulgaria by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in Indonesia to Category:Sportspeople in Indonesia by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in South Africa to Category:Sportspeople in South Africa by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in South Korea to Category:Sportspeople in South Korea by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in Zimbabwe to Category:Sportspeople in Zimbabwe by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by province in the Netherlands to Category:Sportspeople in the Netherlands by province
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Belarus to Category:Sportspeople in Belarus by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Belgium to Category:Sportspeople in Belgium by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Denmark to Category:Sportspeople in Denmark by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Finland to Category:Sportspeople in Finland by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in France to Category:Sportspeople in France by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Italy to Category:Sportspeople in Italy by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in Slovakia to Category:Sportspeople in Slovakia by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by region in the Czech Republic to Category:Sportspeople in the Czech Republic by region
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by state in Austria to Category:Sportspeople in Austria by state
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by state in Brazil to Category:Sportspeople in Brazil by state
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by state or territory in Australia to Category:Sportspeople in Australia by state or territory
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by voivodeship in Poland to Category:Sportspeople in Poland by voivodeship


 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 20. The splitter should be the last thing mentioned in the category name. Qwerfjkl  talk  16:27, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks to @Laurel Lodged for helping me out with this nomination.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1687106689089:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  16:44, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

"Sportspeople by region in Fooland" is ambiguous about whether it is for sportspeople from that region, or alternatively sportspeople who play their sport in that region. However "Sportspeople in Fooland by region" uses the format for cats for sportspeople who play their sport in that region. For example, I created both Category:Association footballers by county in the Republic of Ireland and Category:Association footballers by county in Northern Ireland, whose subcats (e.g. Category:Association footballers from County Fermanagh are very much for people from that county, regardless of where they played their sort (soccer is't huge in rural Ireland, so most of them played for English clubs). I know that only the container cat is to be renamed, but I fear an implied shift in scope. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 17:00, 18 June 2023 (UTC) Category names are brief labels, not essays, and  precision trumps grammar. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 00:10, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, I agree with the above. Sahaib (talk) 16:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  Leaning to oppose. I can the grammatical logic, but there is a slight change of scope.
 * Query In what way is the scope of Category:Association footballers by county in Northern Ireland altered by moving the splitter to the end as proposed (Category:Association footballers in Northern Ireland by county)? The child category (Category:Association footballers from County Fermanagh) surely eliminates the doubt if any existed in the first place. As a container category, Fermanagh cannot contain a mix of both types. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * In en.wp biographical categories, "In Foo" does not mean the same thing as "from Foo".  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 19:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Firmed up my !vote to a firm oppose.  The proposed renames add no clarity, and introduce ambiguity about scope.


 * Generally support, for consistency. I can't imagine that Category:People by state or territory in Australia and Category:People in Australia by state or territory would not mean the same, but I am open to exceptions. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Japanese association football people by prefecture et cetera, categories have from categories and (not the first one listed) are under Category:German cyclists and similar. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 20:25, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose as formulated. The only reason I saw this was due to the tag under "People by county in West Virginia", which is awkwardly phrased but clear; the proposal would change it to "People in West Virginia by county", which is less awkward but means something else.  The same problem would be created many if not most of the other nominated categories: they're presumably intended to people who are either natives or residents of specific places, but the proposed titles read as if they're giving the present location of the people, which would be absurd in many instances.
 * For example, a notable person who was born in Raleigh County, West Virginia could be included under the present title no matter where his life took him—halls of Congress, Tour de France, Darkest Peru—or whether he ever returned. He wouldn't, however, be a "person in West Virginia", or a "person in Raleigh County, West Virginia".  The more sensible formulation in this instance would be "West Virginians by county" or "people from West Virginia by county", either of which could include people whether they were born or raised in a county, or merely settled there at some point.
 * This would probably apply to all of the other states with "by county" subcategories, and perhaps many of the national categories. I note that the original proposal applied specifically to "sportspeople" in certain groups—perhaps the proposal became overbroad in formulation.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:43, 19 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: Most if not all People by county in Foo (etc.) categories are container cats for People from Bar County subcats. Shouldn't the suggested title be People from Foo by county instead, so that they directly reflect the subcategories? --Paul_012 (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with this. It's more definitive.  "Cat:People from (country name) by (division name)".
 * Under the alternate: "Cat:Association football people by (division name) in (country name)" then you can also file people based on where they work. i.e. an South American player living in Europe could be filed under where born, where they work, and where they are living. And if they change teams perhaps multiple places where they worked. past tense. CaribDigita (talk) 16:21, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support aligns related structure of naming and disagree that this changes the meaning of the categories. "Association football people by prefecture in Japan" is semantically no different from "Association football people in Japan by prefecture". While the actual usage and category contents may imply a local identity (or not) the current wording makes no more claim on that point that the proposed one. SFB 20:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support This is more consistent and, by my reading, I don't see any potential change in scope. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * So, you want to change the scope of a hundred categories about people from places to be about people who are presently located in them, merely because the subdivisions of those places are in them and the wording is awkward? Counties, provinces, regions, governorates, cantons, towns, etc. don't move around—they're always in the places they're subdivisions of.  People aren't fixtures.  If you change all of these titles, then you'll have to remove thousands of articles from the categories, and keep doing it whenever the people in those categories leave one place for another, and then hundreds of new categories will need to be created to do the job of the ones being renamed through this proposal.  I don't understand why people aren't seeing the difference between "people by county in foo" and "people in foo by county"  P Aculeius (talk) 12:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @P Aculeius, I don't intend any change in scope. I can see how those names could be confusing, however. For the county categories I agree with CaribDigita's alternative above.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1687544624852:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  18:23, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That would be better, although A) I think this needs to apply to most of the categories for people who aren't on sports teams—the teams may be geographically fixed, in a sense, but people definitely aren't—not just those with state–county distinctions, but also regions/cantons/parishes/provinces/etc.; and B) "West Virginians by county" or "Alabamians by county" would be even more natural than "People from Alabama by county", although that's much less worrisome to me than the distinction between "in" and "from". P Aculeius (talk) 18:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @P Aculeius, I noticed when preparing this nomination that a few other categories use demonyms as you suggested, which seems reasonable.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1687556528152:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  21:42, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No change in scope is intended on my end, but you may see an unintended consequence I honestly don't see. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:32, 2 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Weak support, I am not generally a fan of consistency for consistency's sake but categories are a bit of an exception, and consistently having "by X" at the end of the category name seems good. OTOH these category names are pretty awkward. Something like "Japanese association football players by prefecture" as proposed above might be preferable although I think I'd want to get some more input from knowledgeable editors before supporting that, since it seems like it might be open to varying interpretations. -- Visviva (talk) 16:29, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The intended meaning is not e.g. 'X by municipality' but 'People by municipality', so it should be phrased like that. --TadejM my talk 12:20, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Your argument is entirely unclear. The discussion is not about X versus people, it is people in any case. The discussion is about the order of the words after people. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the order of words has been addressed in my comment. I'm sorry you don't find it clear. --TadejM my talk 09:44, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 00:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose all. It doesn't sound right. Instead, I suggest using Fooyan footballers by division, Fooyan football people by division, Fooyan soccer players by division, and the like. gidonb (talk) 00:24, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose as formulated. Agree fully with User:P Aculeius. I also agree that the current naming convention is awkward; it should be "People from country by county/province/state". --  P 1 9 9  ✉ 02:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * having put in this much effort, are you willing to support an alternative which may gain consensus? – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:47, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fayenatic london, yes, of course. In fact I was thinking, if this gets closed, of renominating it using the demonym alternative.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1690037654400:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  14:54, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, you have the opportunity to achieve that here without the effort of re-tagging all the categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 05:09, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fayenatic london, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're getting at.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1690146395590:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  21:06, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You seem to be waiting for this to be closed, after which an admin would have to list all the categories for a bot to un-tag them; and later you would have to tag them all again for a revised proposal using demonyms. Surely it would be more efficient to agree a compromise here? If you spell out an Alt-1 proposal with a few examples, you may gain a consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:28, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fayenatic london, okay. Could you help me out with the demonyms? I've managed to do most of them automatically. The revised list is at User:Qwerfjkl/sandbox/47.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1690277197071:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  09:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I oppose any and all attempts to use demonyms. It is better for the noms to fail than to introduce demonyms. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:15, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Alt proposal Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  09:32, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Laurel Lodged, do you have a basis for your dislike of demonyms?<span id="Qwerfjkl:1691234366008:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_28" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  11:19, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Demonyms are a fraud. They pretend to be one thing but are something else. In wiki land, they are put forward as meaning "a citizen of the sovereign state of Foo". Sometimes that is true. Sometimes it is not true. This happens when it means "is usually resident in state Foo" or "spent his career working in Foo" or "is an ethnic Fooian". A "French Polynesian" is not a citizen of a sovereign state; he is a resident of an overseas territory (AKA colony) and possibly also a citizen of Republic Of France. In the case of a man born in 1950 on the island of Ireland, he may self-identify as "British" (if born in Belfast for example) or as "Irish" (if born in Dublin for example). It's also complicated by the fact that some people born in Belfast self-identify as "Irish". And then what to call people born before the establishment of the Republic of Ireland? In reality there are often two tree structures: by country and by nationality. Wiki should stop pretending that one comprehends the other. In some cases it does, in other cases it does not. The use of the demonyn permits this fraud to flourish - it is a grammatical fudge and should be stamped out. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a reasonable concern, though I'm not sure demonyms should never used.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1691269524844:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_28" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  21:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * please excuse the delay! I have completed the alternative list (using demonyms) at User:Qwerfjkl/sandbox/47. If you wish to propose this, I suggest pasting a copy on the talk page of this CFD log, or perhaps first relisting again. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:02, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Fayenatic london, it's no problem, really I have should have done it myself. I would prefer to close this and start a new nomination to make the consensus clearer, but you're opposed to that, so I think relisting and providing a collapsed list of the alt nomination would be best. Qwerfjkl  talk  21:08, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan to Category:Japanese association football people by prefecture
 * Category:Association footballers by county in Northern Ireland to Category:Association footballers from Northern Ireland by county (per WP:IRE-CATS)
 * Category:Association footballers by county in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Republic of Ireland association footballers by county (per Category:Republic of Ireland association footballers)
 * Category:Cyclists by province in Belgium to Category:Belgian cyclists by province
 * ... full list on the talk page.
 * Qwerfjkl talk  09:34, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Pinging participants @CaribDigita, @Gidonb, @Kaffet i halsen, @Marcocapelle, @P199, @Visviva, @Sillyfolkboy, @RevelationDirect, @P Aculeius, @Paul_012, @Sahaib.
 * Apologies if I missed anyone. Qwerfjkl  talk  09:41, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * [responding to ping] This is almost exactly my proposal so obviously I am very happy with this! Support! gidonb (talk) 12:25, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support this proposal. While I don't think there's any problem with using demonyms with the names of U.S. states, this formulation still addresses the chief issue with the original proposal, in that the category names will mean what people expect them to mean, and define a logical scope: people from X rather than in X.  There might be rare instances when the latter formulation makes sense, but readers will nearly always be looking for people from X.  P Aculeius (talk) 13:29, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The list follows the usage in parent categories, e.g. Category:American people, but demonyms are not used for any categories for U.S. states, e.g. the parents use the form Category:People from Florida rather than Category:Florida people / Category:Floridian people / Category:Floridians. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not what I'm concerned about, chiefly. While I think that "West Virginians" is as clear and more concise than "people from West Virginia", it has approximately the same scope.  The names of "People from U.S. states" categories can always be discussed in future, but this proposal was originally about "athletes in place by subdivision of place", and for reasons not clear to me included "people in U.S. states...", as well as general categories following the same formulation everywhere else.  It makes no sense at all to use general categories for people in rather than people from, since people are movable, and readers will almost invariably want to find people who either originate from or reside in a particular place, irrespective of their current location.  For purposes of this discussion, "Fooians" and "People from Foo" are near equivalents; "People in Foo" is the problem, because it's obviously meant to be the same as "People from Foo", but isn't.  P Aculeius (talk) 01:01, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * (Thanks for the ping but) oppose. I thought the formulation most people (myself included) noted their preference for above was Association football people from Japan by prefecture, etc. Why not have that as the alt proposal? --Paul_012 (talk) 15:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Note Fayentic's comment above. (Posted after yours.)
 * it follows parent date that use demonyms such as Category:German cyclists. Qwerfjkl  talk  21:26, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support alt as much as I support the original nomination. The splitter is at the end, this was what the discussion was about. A discussion about fooian people versus people from foo can be done some other time. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As BHG described above, the change can produce ambiguity. The alt proposal aims to remedy that. Qwerfjkl  talk  21:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It was not clear to me how it was ambiguous but if it is clear for other editors then just go for it. I am not opposing either, that is what matters most, I guess. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:43, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In case my replies above are unclear, what I'm supporting is any solution that uses either "people from Foo" or "Fooians", as opposed to "People in Foo", which in my opinion is an unhelpful formulation for most categories, because people are mobile, and readers will nearly always be looking for people who come from or reside in a place, irrespective of where they may be at a particular time. As Marcocapelle says, "Fooians" versus "People from Foo" can be discussed some other time, and (I hope) perhaps in discussions more focused on a smaller selection of categories—this started with a very specific and focused number, and somehow expanded to encompass the rest of the universe.  If it hadn't somehow engulfed all categories for people from U.S. states, I wouldn't even have been aware of the discussion.  P Aculeius (talk) 01:01, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support either, I just listed it using demonyms here as that was how it was initially suggested. Qwerfjkl  talk  18:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose prefer the current system with the splitter in the middle and country at the end, rather than the beginning, as it seems more natural. Countries being at the end would also be more helpful when searching for categories, "People/Sportpeople/footballers by county/stage/region" seems easier to search for to me, than by having demonyms or having countries in the middle. Happily888 (talk) 11:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand your argument. You say the splitter s the middle is more "natural". Why? Most categories have the splitter at the end, which makes sense logically.
 * You say categories at the end would be more helpful when searching. That seems dubious to me.
 * And again you bring up this searching argument, wwhich still seems dubious. I doubt people will struggle to search the categories whichever way they are ordered.
 * After all, even though in the nomination all the categories are listed together, they are in fact for the most part totally separate. Nobody is going to have to run their eyes down this whole list, in all likelihood there will only be a few dozen at best that they'll have to contend with. Qwerfjkl  talk  21:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Happily888 Pinging you for the comment above. Qwerfjkl  talk  21:31, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per my post on 18 June. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 14:08, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Politicians from New South Wales
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete under WP:G7. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:05, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting politicians from new south wales
 * Nominator's rationale: Created in error. We already have Category:New South Wales politicians. LibStar (talk) 04:16, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete per WP:G7. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:07, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per WP:G7. NLeeuw (talk) 06:42, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Category has been emptied. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:08, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.