Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 12



Category:Israeli people of Soviet-Jewish descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Israeli people of Soviet-Jewish descent to Category:Israeli people of USSR-Jewish descent
 * Nominator's rationale: I'm happy if a better term that USSR is provided for a new category name, however "Soviet" is the taking of one word from USSR, and appears pejorative. In 2023 we can do better than that 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:55, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I am equally happy with delete as an outcome of this proposal 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete — Soviet descent is not a thing. Second of yet another long process of descent deletions.
 * Delete, articles are already in Russian-Jewish, Ukrainian-Jewish etc categories (if anything is stated about descent at all). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Disperse to containerise -- Ultimately delete -- USSR is a defunct country. I suspect that most emigration took place in the period after it was dissolved.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people of Soviet descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american people of soviet descent
 * Nominator's rationale: Empty category, following various removals recently, "Soviet" seems a term that fails in 2023. I'm happy if there is a proposal for a better term 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Soviet descent is not a thing. There were undeniably Soviet nationals and some (not all) of them are primarily defined as such by reliable sources rather than, e.g., Russian or Armenian. However, people descending from Soviet emigrants will nearly always define themselves by their national origin (or plurality thereof) rather than their fore-bearer's citizenship in transnational Soviet Union. This logic can be extended to all national subcategories in Category:People of Soviet descent, which are all empty except the categories Place Clichy (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment This category has already been emptied. Liz Read! Talk! 01:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete empty category, Soviet descent is not a thing. Start of yet another long process of descent deletions.
 * Delete -- USSR was Union of SSRs, and people had an internal nationality as Russian, Turkmen, Tartar, etc. We should discourage this use of  defunct country.  However I would not welcome a long campaign of removing descent categories, as a lot of work has been done on rationalising these in the past.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:55, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Presidents of provinces of Italy

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl  talk  16:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Agrigento to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sicily
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Alessandria to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Piedmont
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Ancona to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Marche
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Asti to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Piedmont
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Bari to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Apulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Barletta-Andria-Trani to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Apulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Belluno to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Veneto


 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Bologna to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Brescia to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Brindisi to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Apulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Cagliari to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sardinia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Campobasso to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Molise
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Caserta to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Campania
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Catania to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sicily
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Catanzaro to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Calabria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Cosenza to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Calabria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Cremona to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Crotone to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Calabria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Cuneo to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Piedmont
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Enna to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sicily
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Ferrara to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Florence to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Forlì-Cesena to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Genoa to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Liguria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Grosseto to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Imperia to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Liguria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Isernia to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Molise
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of La Spezia to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Liguria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of L'Aquila to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Abruzzo
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Lecce to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Apulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Lecco to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Livorno to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Lodi to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Mantua to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Massa-Carrara to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Milan to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Modena to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Monza and Brianza to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Naples to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Campania
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Padua to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Veneto
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Palermo to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sicily
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Pesaro and Urbino to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Marche
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Pescara to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Abruzzo
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Piacenza to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Pisa to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Pordenone to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Potenza to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Basilicata
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Prato to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Tuscany
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Ravenna to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Rimini to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Emilia-Romagna
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Rome to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lazio
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Salerno to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Campania
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Sassari to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sardinia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Savona to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Liguria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Sondrio to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Terni to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Umbria
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Trapani to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Sicily
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Treviso to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Veneto
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Trieste to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Turin to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Piedmont
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Udine to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Friuli-Venezia Giulia
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Varese to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Lombardy
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Verona to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Veneto
 * Propose merging Category:Presidents of the Province of Vicenza to Category:Presidents of provinces of Italy and Category:Politicians of Veneto


 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, nearly all of these categories only contain 1-3 articles. Two categories contains 4 articles, Milan contains 5 articles. Many provinces do not have a category in this tree at all. Note that provinces are the 2nd level administrative divisions of Italy, not 1st level. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:25, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. Consider that provinces were 1st level subdivisions from 1861 to 1970 and provincial presidents are notable.--Alienautic (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per above reason by Alienautic. We forget sometimes that one size doesn't fit all for each country's political systems. Italian Wikipedia specifically has categories for each, and I would err on the side of native speakers who understand Italian state and provincial politics, rather than mass mergers or deletions. Scanlan (talk) 14:02, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep -- If the Italian WP can manage 5 articles per category, the English WP ought to be able to await translations being uploaded to it. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:58, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Brainships
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:Brainships

Category:Fictional motherships

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:03, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional motherships to Category:Fictional spacecraft
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT, there is only one actual article in the category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:56, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:00, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree. That makes sense. --Bduke (talk) 03:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Both categories are already populated in Category:Fictional spacecraft so delete. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge/delete


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pakistani scholars of Islam

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename & reparent. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:04, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Pakistani scholars of Islam to Category:Pakistani Muslim scholars of Islam
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per actual content, and reparent to Category:Muslim scholars of Islam by nationality‎. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:04, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename and re-parent as nominated. Although I question whether Muslim, Sunni Muslim, etc. have any special knowledege of Islam, that would be another discussion.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional detectives
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:Fictional detectives

Category:American musicians of Caribbean descent
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:American musicians of Caribbean descent

Category:Sportspeople of Caribbean descent
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:Sportspeople of Caribbean descent

Category:Sportspeople of European descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sportspeople of european descent
 * Propose deleting sportspeople by european country of descent
 * Propose deleting sportspeople of southern european descent
 * Propose deleting argentine sportspeople of european descent (3C)
 * Propose deleting french sportspeople of european descent (1P, 1C)
 * Propose deleting german sportspeople of european descent (1C)
 * Propose deleting uruguayan sportspeople of european descent (1C)
 * Nominator's rationale: recent proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Category naming does not provide for by region encapsulating by country.


 * Summary: There's no rhyme nor reason for this convoluted tree, entangled with others, very few articles. Continuing removals after categories were emptied by previous discussions.


 * Followup to:


 * 1) Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 3
 * 2) Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 26
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * who asked for this earlier. Other entangled categories are still being deleted as empty.
 * Query- is the intention (ultimately) to delete/upmerge the likes of Category:Sportspeople of Albanian descent and Category:Russian sportspeople of Georgian descent? If so a different rationale is needed since these are not small and are part of standard hierarchies {Category:People of Albanian descent and Category:Russian people of Georgian descent). Oculi (talk) 21:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Answer — these are all "of European descent"; thus do not match any part of this query, nor speculation about unrelated rationale.
 * I'll take that as a convoluted 'no'. In that case, is there any intention to do something about Category:People of European descent, which contains all the above and is presumably also often 'understood as a proxy for race'? Oculi (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Waiting for your CfD nomination and rationale.


 * Delete. These intersections of occupation and regional descent are not eligible per WP:OCEGRS. Also, they are often used and understood as a proxy for race, which are prohibitid by WP:ETHNICRACECAT. Categorization by national origin is widely sufficient to convey the notion, provided individuals are actually defined as such by reliable sources. Place Clichy (talk) 23:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, occupation and descent is a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete -- most of these contain nothing but an Italian subcategory. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT in Oman

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:09, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:LGBT in Oman to Category:Gender in Oman
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT that is a near-miss WP:C2F, containing only LGBT rights in Oman. The merge target is the only one that does not already contain the article either directly or in a subcategory. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 14:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)


 * On the one hand this is a clear case of the "smallcat exception rule" (part of a large established tree, Category:LGBT by country), on the other hand one might question if this should be a large established tree as there are so many subcategories with only one article. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would share Marco's misgivings. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge, as the article is already in other relevant parents e.g. via . – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Drugs in Oman
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:Drugs in Oman

Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Withdrawn by nom. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  15:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting baroque architecture in the ottoman empire
 * Propose renaming Category:Baroque mosques of the Ottoman Empire to ??? (added 9 Feb)
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory and one article, but move the article Cathedral of the Holy Spirit to Category:Buildings and structures of the Ottoman Empire. The subcategory and article are already in the Baroque buildings tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:42, 4 February 2023 (UTC)


 * There is also Mihrişah Sultan Complex (rescued from Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture). The article Ottoman Baroque architecture could also be added. This seems enough content to make the category useful. The category also seems justified under the exception to WP:SMALLCAT as part of Category:Baroque architecture by country. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:20, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but it is still a very small category. Also note that Category:Baroque architecture by country is a tree by modern country. If the category is kept, shouldn't it be renamed to the just recently deleted Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture per WP:C2D? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:32, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Architecture by country and period or style has a lot of very small categories.
 * That C2D naming pattern has been followed for Category:English Baroque architecture and Category:Spanish Baroque architecture, although not for French or Italian. It would justify keeping an Ottoman category as opposed to using the modern country, Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey.
 * On the other hand, Cathedral of the Holy Spirit plus Tulip Period architecture would belong in Baroque architecture in Turkey (or …in Ottoman Empire), but not in Ottoman Baroque. So I'm inclined to Keep the current name. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  12:40, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * For the record, I added Tulip Period architecture to the current category, but removed it. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:31, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There's no good reason Tulip Period architecture would be placed in any of the "Baroque" categories. Even if we follow the same problematic logic currently being used to categorize Ottoman Baroque architecture, the relevance is indirect at most in this case. R Prazeres (talk) 21:49, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, there are two citations for the sentence "The term “Baroque” is sometimes applied more widely to Ottoman art and architecture across the 18th century including the Tulip Period." – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I wrote that content so I'm well aware. But that's a specifically-contextualized mention of terminology varying among some authors who are exclusively discussing Islamic/Ottoman architecture; it does not invite us to make a leap to categorically (no pun intended) grouping the topic into "Baroque architecture" in a general encyclopedia where that category clearly refers to Western Baroque architecture, not to the mere use of the word "baroque". In other words, not a defining characteristic of the subject per WP:CATDEF. This could be discussed further, but I think it's best left for the article's talk page rather than here. For the discussion here, I think the relevant point is that our arguments shouldn't be conditioned on whether or not Tulip Period architecture would be included in the nominated category, because it's a stretch.
 * All that said, I agree with you above to keep the current category. I've said elsewhere that there are other non-mosque articles which would belong in it (either now or after content improvements), like Büyük Yeni Han and Tomb of Abdul Hamid I, which would likely make the WP:SMALLCAT issue go away fairly easily. R Prazeres (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think we should create Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey anyway, for consistency with other modern country categories. It will contain these two (or three) articles plus the ten mosques which all happen to be in Turkey as well. Both Category:Baroque architecture in the Ottoman Empire and Category:Baroque mosques of the Ottoman Empire‎ will then become redundant. Only Çapanoğlu Mosque should be added to Category:Ottoman mosques in Turkey, the other 9 mosques are already in Category:Ottoman mosques in Istanbul or Category:Ottoman mosques in Bursa. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * having Baroque architecture by country does not make Category:Baroque church buildings redundant, so I think some category should be retained for Baroque mosques. Perhaps Category:Baroque architecture in Turkey and Category:Ottoman Baroque mosques (or Category:Ottoman Baroque mosques in Turkey) would suffice. I have added the mosques category to this nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:45, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose — neither is small anymore. Remember, the word "Ottoman" is a quasi-ethnicity in "Ottoman Baroque", versus a nationality in "Ottoman Empire". Baroque architecture can appear anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, not just modern Turkey. This mosque style can be anywhere in the Ottoman Empire, not just modern Turkey. Many are/were in Egypt. We just don't have a lot of articles yet. These broad categories better reflect facts on the ground. Agreed that an editor is making extremely fine distinctions, that I'm not sure are taught in art or architectural history.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I am withdrawing this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per comments, improvements, and the withdrawal of the nomination. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 25%23Category:Rulers

Category:Rabbis from Prague
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Rabbis from Prague to Category:Rabbis of Prague
 * Nominator's rationale: for obvious reasons. -- -- -- 21:10, 26 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge both to Category:Rabbis in Prague. Strangely, both categories have already been nominated (merging to each other).
 * Category:Rabbis from Prague parent is Category:Jews and Judaism in Prague.
 * Category:Rabbis of Prague parent is Category:Rabbis by city where most are "from", only 2 "of", and 1 "in".
 * Both are Category:Clergy from Prague, but the only other subcategory is Category:Roman Catholic bishops of Prague. No consistency.
 * We've been using "in" most recently, see Category:Rabbis in Israel by city and its many subcategories.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 22:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose as nominated, for consistency. Most siblings use "from", whereas cities in Israel use "in". In addition, "of" suggests a title or suggests heading the whole territory (heading the whole city of Prague, in this case) which is not necessarily correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * , should we go back to the already documented Fooers from Boo (that is, Category:Rabbis from Prague)? That would clean up the existing 2 "of", and 1 "in".
 * I am supporting reverse merge or your alternative above. Sorry that was not quite clear. Ultimately a batch nomination should follow. Honestly I think "in" might be better for any occupation. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:12, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:48, 29 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  23:26, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose all suggestions = a rabbi from Prague is a rabbi of anywhere who was from Prague; Rabbi of Prague is a position (according to the articles); a rabbi in Prague would be a 3rd category. Oculi (talk) 10:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No, a rabbi of anywhere who was from Prague would be in an immigrant category, not this category. The "of" categories are supposedly for cases where there is only 1 at a time: archbishops, not clergy. It's all getting annoyingly inconsistent.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Further comment - there is a position 'Chief Rabbi of Prague'; the present one is David Peter. I would suggest a rename of Category:Rabbis of Prague to (subcat of Category:Chief rabbis of cities and Category:Rabbis from Prague) and removal of those who don't fit. Someone from Prague who is a rabbi in say the UK will be in 'Rabbis from Prague' and in expatriate categories. Oculi (talk) 01:27, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree, rename Category:Rabbis of Prague to Category:Chief rabbis of Prague under Category:Chief rabbis of cities, and purge them all. Disagree, any rabbi from Prague has to actually have been a rabbi in Prague before migrating to UK; otherwise, no occupation intersection with Prague.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  12:30, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - these are 2 separate categories. As Oculi said, Rabbis from Prague are rabbis who were born in Prague.  Rabbis of Prague could be from anywhere.  I think "Chief Rabbi of Prague" would be a subcategory of Rabbis of Prague. Rlendog (talk) 16:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * We prohibit categorizing occupations by birth place.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bronze Age literature
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:13, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting bronze age literature
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:DEFINING, WP:OVERCATEGORIZATION, WP:SMALLCAT - all of the entries here already belong in Category:Ancient Near East literature and all but two of them (Ugaritic, Hittite) continued into the Iron age. Category:Ancient Near East literature can be categorized under Category:Iron Age and Category:Bronze Age to fix the category tree. &#32;- car chasm (talk) 23:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:39, 24 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  20:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  11:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, trivial intersection. In addition it is not a good idea to categorize Category:Ancient Near East literature under Category:Iron Age and Category:Bronze Age because it is not a subset of any of the two. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * weak keep yes there is overlap, but ANE literature notably combines Bronze Age and Iron Age literature, and a category that covers half of another major category is hardly "overcategorization". There are also minor exceptions that belong in the Bronze Age but not the ANE category, mostly Rigveda and ancient China. But note that there are major subcategories that are Iron Age and not ANE (China, India, Greece, Rome, early Germanic). I understand the impetus to reduce excessive category cruft, but this noble impulse is overshooting its mark in this particular case imho. --dab (𒁳) 08:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Selective merge to Category:Ancient Near East literature. The Bronze Age did not exclusively occur in the Near East. Do not re-categorize Category:Ancient Near East literature under Category:Iron Age and Category:Bronze Age, that's not the purpose of those categories.
 * Comment -- It is not usual to categorise civilisations of Near East or Asia generally as to whether they had or had not begun to use iron. It is probably better to categorise it by millennium - 1st M BC and pre-1000 BC.  There were probably not enough literate civilisations to need any geographic split.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose The rationale is nonsensical. Mentioning a silly page on overcategorization does not p[rove that there is overcategorization, or that it is at all relevant to this category. And Wikipediua has a chroniuc problem with undercategorization. Dimadick (talk) 15:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete/Selective Merge per WAS. The level of metallurgy doesn't seem defining here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 19 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pennsylvania state historical marker significations
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 21%23Category:Pennsylvania state historical marker significations