Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 9



Category:Grammarians of Romanian

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 19:37, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Grammarians of Romanian to Category:Linguists of Romanian
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge, renaming the page over the newer "Linguists". See the Yiddish nomination below for the 2015 precedent about of these category names. This category has 3 members: Alexandru Graur, whose article says he was a Romanian linguist; Iorgu Iordan, a Romanian linguist, philologist etc; and Ion Heliade Rădulescu, prolific translator of foreign literature into Romanian, also the author of books on linguistics. Evidently "linguists" would serve perfectly well. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: I will merge the Wikidata items https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55960034 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8498118 after this is closed. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per well researched precedent.
 * Support, articles of this category clearly belong in the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, better term. -- Mvqr (talk) 11:51, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Grammarians of Yiddish

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 19:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Grammarians of Yiddish to Category:Linguists of Yiddish
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge and redirect. The parent was merged to  in 2015, see Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 17, but we have not followed that up until now. Please see that CFD for SMcCandlish's explanation of the ambiguities and problems with the term "grammarians". In most cases by language of study, we have a category either named linguists or named grammarians, but Yiddish has both. Category:Grammarians of Yiddish was created by user:In ictu oculi in 2011; Category:Linguists of Yiddish is older and larger. Only 4 are currently categorised as grammarians:  Solomon Birnbaum, whose article describes him as a Yiddish linguist; Dovid Katz, a scholar specializing in Yiddish language and literature; Mordkhe Schaechter, a leading Yiddish linguist; and L. L. Zamenhof, creator of Esperanto, who had earlier written the first grammar of Yiddish. I am not persuaded that the separate category is justified or useful, so following the precedent it should be merged. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:29, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per well researched precedent.
 * Note: I will merge the fawiki, kowiki & Wikidata items https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8498123 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8591552 after this is closed. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, articles of this category clearly belong in the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per the previous CfD.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Memorial Cup tournaments by location

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:21, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting memorial cup tournaments hosted in edmonton
 * Propose deleting memorial cup tournaments hosted in montreal
 * Propose deleting memorial cup tournaments hosted in ottawa
 * Propose deleting memorial cup tournaments hosted in toronto
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCLOCATION. Events are not defined by where they are held. User:Namiba 22:26, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 04:28, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge each to Category:Ice hockey in CITY. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support merge per Aidan721 as well to Category:Sports competitions in CITY.--User:Namiba
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Paulo Coelho

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:24, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting paulo coelho
 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category named after a person, as per WP:OCEPON. This was discussed in 2017, but I feel 4 articles and a subcat is insufficient to warrant a separate category and isn't a "very notable case" as per WP:EPCATPERS. Kj cheetham (talk) 17:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:29, 8 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  20:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep — still alive, still publishing, there are 2 layers of subcategories with many articles, and really should have another subcategory for videos games based upon the books.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep – useful for navigation as it contains 3 games/films based on his works as well as books by him. I considered renaming as "Works by Paulo Coelho", but that would exclude works based on his works; so it's simplest just to keep the current category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:58, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Non-Muslim

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: manually merge the first to appropriate targets, and merge the second. For the record, as the talk pages will presumably be deleted, there were previous discussions at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_23 (no consensus), Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_April_19 (no consensus to merge the first, so renamed) and Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_May_22 (led to creation of the second). The Wikidata item for the first is https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7067687 and has 5 interwiki links, of which the Arabic is the most populated. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:04, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Propose manually merging Category:Non-Muslim scholars of Islam into the tree of Category:Scholars of Islam
 * Propose merging Category:Non-Muslim scholars of Islamic jurisprudence to Category:Scholars of Islamic jurisprudence
 * Nominator's rationale: merge as "non-Muslim" is not a verifiable characteristic. People may have converted to Islam without anyone knowing. While merging manually, many articles may more specifically be moved to Category:Islamic studies scholars since this is the category for academic "western style" scholars of Islam, regardless of their personal beliefs. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)


 * keep: a look at the Category:Non-Muslim scholars of Islam and the essence for it creation by Striver is to maintain a clear distinction between "Muslim scholars" and the Non-Muslim writers writing on/about Islam.
 * This proposed merging might be misleading to unsuspecting readers and researchers. The argument that "people may have converted to Islam without anyone knowing" does not resonate with the characteristics of a Muslim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atibrarian (talk • contribs)
 * The distinction is not always that clear. Category:Scholars of Islamic jurisprudence contains 6 articles about people who are probably not Muslim but we are not certain about it. In any case they are 'western style' academics. What is misleading about combining them with Category:Non-Muslim scholars of Islamic jurisprudence? Marcocapelle (talk) 11:11, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  22:38, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep -- There is a very major difference between those studying Islam from within it and those studying it from outside. I would not object to merging selectively to Category:Islamic studies scholars.  I do not think the argument about unacknowledged conversion is a valid one.  Most of those concerned are likely to be Christian or Jewish; possibly atheists or agnostics of those heritages.  I accept that categorising by what they are not is unusual in WP. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:54, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
 * (added after relisting) whether they are "likely" or "possibly" something exactly summarizes the problem: this is unverifiable information (for these subjects) and OR. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete: "Non-Muslim" is a clear violation of WP:OCMISC. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Western academics of Islam. Western in the sense that the scholar utilizes a Western (secular) approach to the study of Islam...does not necessarily mean they're living in the West. Al-Andalusi (talk) 22:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * while I sympthatize with that, Category:Islamic studies scholars already fulfills that role. The proposal to manually manually merge into the tree of Category:Scholars of Islam will probably have the effect that some articles are moved to Category:Islamic studies scholars or its subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:24, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: "Non-Muslim" is a clear violation of WP:OCMISC. Laurel Lodged
 * If delete, we'll just have to manually merge them from the logs.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:24, 8 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  20:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Manually Merge per nom. WP:OCMISC Straight deletion might lose information. With so many nearly identical categories, editors are clearly confused.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge/Manual Merge as nominated. I'm also open to other possibilities to say what these people actually are like Al-Andalusi proposed but that doesn't seem to have traction. The current name is a clear and direct example of WP:OCMISC. - RevelationDirect (talk) 20:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Manual merge (changed vote) but not to nom's target. We should not mix non-Muslim scholars of Islamic studies with theologians of Islam and similar disciplines.  The contents should be manually recategorised to more suitable categories, so as to leave this empty, upon which it can be deleted.  I support the concept of Al-Andalusi's vote, but not his precise solution.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:31, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete/manually merge (somewhere) per above. — Qwerfjkl  talk  20:31, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

1850s in sports in New York

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge/Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 19:40, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1859 in sports in New York City to Category:1859 in New York City
 * Propose deleting Category:1859 in sports in New York (state)
 * Propose deleting Category:1859 in American sports by state
 * Propose deleting Category:1850s in sports in New York (state)
 * Propose deleting Category:1850s in American sports by state


 * Nominator's rationale: Having deleted the 1860s categories per Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 30, it makes no sense to keep these earlier categories for a single article. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:36, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:40, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: I have not nominated Category:1859 college baseball season since it is apparently notable as the first such season (see 1859 Fordham Rose Hill Baseball Club team). – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * See also Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 8. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per precedent. Keep up the good work!
 * Suport per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 04:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per precedent. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 17%23Category:Ottoman Baroque architecture

Category:Theatres that have burned down
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 17%23Category:Theatres that have burned down