Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 23

 &lt; July 22 July 24 &gt;

Category:Archaeological cultures by ethnic group
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Archaeological cultures by ethnic group

Category:1879 battles

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 19:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:1879 battles to Category:Battles in 1879
 * Nominator's rationale: To match other categories grouping battles by year. By mistake I created this category under a wrong name. Swam pl (talk) 21:24, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per WP:C2C. This could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per WP:C2C. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Designated Hate and Extremist Groups by The Southern Poverty Law Center

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. Tagged as CSD G4. Liz Read! Talk! 01:14, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting designated hate and extremist groups by the southern poverty law center
 * Nominator's rationale: Similar categories have invariably been deleted or listified at CfD:


 * Category:Hate groups and Category:Hate groups in the United States: 2010 discussion
 * Category:Organizations designated as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center and Category:Organizations designated as hate groups by the Anti-Defamation League: 2011 discussion
 * Category:Organizations designated as hate groups by the SPLC: 2014 discussion
 * Category:People targeted by the Anti-Defamation League: 2017 discussion. gnu 57 20:48, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as re-creation of deleted categories. But this category is actually worse as it lumps together possibly disparate organizations. In any case, it privileges one particular viewpoint and is thus inappropriate categorization (see prior discussions for additional arguments). StAnselm (talk) 20:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as G4 per the above, as well as G10. I'll also note that I've rolled back the efforts of our new SPA who has been adding entries to this category, per WP:ROLLBACKUSE clause 5. While empty categories are another reason for speedy deletion, I think we have plenty already. Jclemens (talk) 21:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Bamburgh

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:46, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Bamburgh to Category:Earls of Bamburgh
 * Alt compromise: keep: Category:Rulers of Bamburgh; add parent Category:Monarchs in the British Isles
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parents Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria. I've boldly renamed the main article to Earls of Bamburgh already. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt compromise rationale: It's a bit difficult to say what their actual titles were, and Category:Monarchs in the British Isles is better for the early "rulers" of Bamburgh, while Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria are better for the later "rulers" of Bamburgh. Adding an extra parent may be a better idea than renaming the category (supported by Deacon of Pndapetzim and Marcocapelle). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would oppose this. They are not 'earls' until relatively late, in the tenth century they go by the titles 'king' 'prince' and 'high reeve' depending on the source, the use of the title 'earl' emerges late when they more or less accept their status as part of a larger English kingdom (the title 'earl' itself isn't used in that conventional sense in England until about c.1000 anyway). There is something about this in their various articles, but that's why the main article title is not 'Earls of Bamburgh' either. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 10:08, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Would it be a better idea, then, to rename the main article and this category to Monarchs of Bamburgh? Since they can be kings, princes and (semi-)independent earls, and "rulers" is too vague? And are parents Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria even correct if the earliest "rulers" of Bamburgh weren't "earls"? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Alt rename to Category:Monarchs of Bamburgh, as more specific. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:25, 20 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Those parents aren't incorrect, since some of them are given the title 'earl', at least by modern historians. To be honest the ambiguity of the word 'ruler' seems to be perfect for the article's topic, I don't see any advantage in 'monarch', esp. as there is a suggestion that rulership of the polity may have been shared c.920 when 'the sons of Eadwulf' are among the rulers who meet Edward the Elder at Bakewell and since the later rulers, say post-Uhtred d. c.1018, definitely don't seem to be sovereign 'monarchs' in the late medieval sense, they are likely subject to the king of England (an Edward the Confessor) and possibly also the ealdorman of Northumbria (e.g. a Siward or Tostig). Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 12:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm ok, that's good to know. Then perhaps rather than looking for an overarching parent category, we should put this category (and the main article) into several categories which may only partially apply? E.g. Category:Monarchs in the British Isles for the early "rulers" of Bamburgh, and Category:Anglo-Saxon earls and Category:Earls of Northumbria for the later "rulers" of Bamburgh? (We do not have to take the "mon-" in "monarch" too literally in cases of power-sharing between, say, two kings, or a king and a queen regnant; that would make categorisation overcomplicated.) This seems to be a good compromise to me. How about you @Deacon of Pndapetzim and @Marcocapelle? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm don't think I'm all that fussed what categories get put at the bottom of this article, but I should point out that we don't really know when they stopped being 'kings' and started being 'earls', as you'll know the evidence doesn't always allow the kind of clear and decisive EITHER/OR interpretation well suited for, say, Wikipedia categories. Also, maybe it's just me, 'monarch' sounds a bit high for these types of early medieval rulers, would any modern writer ever use such a grand term for kings of Brega or kings of the Rhinns? I'm a bit puzzled why the word 'ruler' is allegedly problematic by comparison. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 13:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As a historian, I agree with what you say about the uncertainty of what to call something or someone when the sources are ambiguous, and not trying to put historical persons into boxes in which they do not fit.
 * As a Wikipedian, I must insist on WP:CATSPECIFIC, and that clarifying which kinds of persons this category is grouping should be unambiguous enough, as part of the Category:Rulers process.
 * My compromise suggestion seeks to strike a balance between these two considerations. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would be ok with this alternative too. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  09:58, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Still nothing wrong with the word 'ruler'. Srnec (talk) 21:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm prepared to make an exception in this case. Rather than renaming the category, I've proposed to add Category:Monarchs in the British Isles as an extra parent as a compromise. Would that be acceptable for you? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Kings and earls of Bamburgh. I'm looking at Template:Anglo-Saxon status and at high-reeve, and it sounds like that title, though a leader, is a nobleman under an earl (a sort of a steward, apparently?). And so, I don't know if we should even call them "rulers". As for "monarch", I agree that that seems a bit out of place here. - jc37 10:11, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "Kings" seems fine, given none of them appear to have been women, so "monarchs" won't be necessary per MOS:GNL. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:53, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: I originally closed this as rename; I have reverted the closure due to Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  20:45, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Kings and earls of Bamburgh is perfectly fine as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:06, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I support "kings and earls" too. How about you @Deacon of Pndapetzim and @Srnec? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:51, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The main article is 'rulers' and, given the variety of titles, that seems best. Srnec (talk) 20:21, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Strong Oppose many clearly worse names being floated above! Just leave it. Johnbod (talk) 01:48, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:District attorneys in Vermont
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:District attorneys in Vermont

Category:Bohemian literature
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Bohemian literature

Category:Humsafar Express route diagram templates
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Uncontested and uncontroversial nomination. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Humsafar Express route diagram templates to Category:Route diagram templates
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one template in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Protagonists of Chinese descent in Japanese anime
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Anime and manga set in China. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting protagonists of chinese descent in japanese anime
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, none of the articles is primarily about a protagonist. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Alternative: rename to Category:Anime and manga set in China and re-parent. (added later) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:28, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: per nom Rename: There are a lot of anime and manga set in China and I think renaming it as such is the right call. SimonLagann (talk) 00:49, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete (changed to rename per below); I agree that this category's scope is way too specific and none of the articles that were formerly in it actually met its criteria. However, something more general like "anime and manga set in China" might be alright. Link20XX (talk) 01:24, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. In fact, I also think a container category called "Anime and manga by location" would be good too. There is a category called Category:Anime and manga set in Hokkaido that would fit there. SimonLagann (talk) 09:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * (as nom) I do not object to renaming this way. That requires re-parenting too because the category no longer belongs in the characters tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:21, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've changed my vote to renaming this category. Frankly I'm surprised there aren't any categories for anime and manga based on setting other than Hokkaido; I can think of a bunch that are set in a real country other than Japan. Link20XX (talk) 20:09, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I was under the impression that we specifically avoided categorizations of protagonists, because it was thought to be a subjective term. Dimadick (talk) 20:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a fair point too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian film industry terminology
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Indian film industry terminology to Category:Film industry in India
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, this category does not clearly distinguish itself from its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hoards in the United States
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Hoards in the United States to Category:Treasure troves of the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: merge or reverse merge, overlapping categories. It probably makes sense to leave a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per WP:C2C parent Category:Treasure troves by country. I do have a preference for "in" rather than "of"; the siblings are currently inconsistent. I think we are interested in the location where these treasure troves were found, not "ownership". These treasures were usually buried in the ground long before the present-day countries were established as states. But that's for a future follow-up nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment "These treasures were usually buried in the ground long before the present-day countries were established" Not necessarily. The term treasure trove also applies to valuable items located in the cellars or attics of extant buildings. Hoards are archaeological items, but the term treasure trove applies to hidden collections of valuables. Dimadick (talk) 20:07, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Frank Reyes
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting frank reyes
 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEPON, the albums subcategory suffices. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:C2F, couldn't this be listed at speedy? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:30, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It couldn't because there is also a subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:23, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect or Keep. I have added a new subcategory and another one will be added soon based on singles from Frank Reyes. This category is based on one of Dominican Republic's biggest artists.DominicanWikiEdit1996 (talk) 10:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean an eponymous category is needed. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 19:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 19:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Antony Santos
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting antony santos
 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEPON and the songs and albums categories are already interlinked by the template. This is exactly an example to which this proposed new speedy criterion would apply. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect or Keep. I have added a new subcategory Also, I might create a page involving a documentary he was a part of in 1996. Antony Santos is considered one of Dominican Republic's biggest artists if not, the biggest to ever from from that country, which makes the category more important to keep. DominicanWikiEdit1996 (talk) 11:02, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure you understand what eponymous categories are used for. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 19:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I actually do. I have seen eponymous categories from Michael Jackson and other artist. But, I do understand that two of the eponymous categories created don't have more articles or subcategories about these artists. There for, I do understand why you considered it unnecessary. You know I have created eponymous categories for Romeo Santos and Aventura before. Those have never been under consideration for deletion because of the multiple subcategories and numerous articles involving them. DominicanWikiEdit1996 (talk) 15:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 19:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1970s elections in England
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:49, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 1970s elections in england
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, it only contains an article about the UK rather than England, and it does not have any sibling categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:48, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:52, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Redundant to Category:1970s elections in the United Kingdom. We don't have by-decade categories for English local elections or bye-elections, and none of these are in the category anyway. Johnbod (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Manuscripts
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Manuscripts

Category:Musical manuscripts of the Fitzwilliam Museum
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Musical manuscripts of the Fitzwilliam Museum to Category:Manuscripts of the Fitzwilliam Museum
 * Nominator's rationale: Category contains only the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book and its eponymous subcategory. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:33, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:32, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There are other musical manuscripts which may merit an article in due course, eg https://blogs.bl.uk/asian-and-african/2018/06/sophia-plowden-khanum-jan-and-hindustani-airs.html Thoughtfortheday (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Manuscripts from the Cairo Geniza
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Manuscripts from the Cairo Geniza

Category:Athos manuscripts
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Athos manuscripts

Category:Manuscripts by collection
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Manuscripts by collection

Category:Indo-European law
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2%23Category:Indo-European law