Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 28

 &lt; July 27 July 29 &gt;

Category:Opera controversies
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 5%23Category:Opera controversies

Category:Centuries in San José, Costa Rica
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 5%23Category:Centuries in San José, Costa Rica

Category:Abraham Lincoln in Springfield, Illinois

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: manual merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Abraham Lincoln in Springfield, Illinois to Category:Tourist attractions in Springfield, Illinois and Category:Abraham Lincoln
 * Nominator's rationale: This is category from 2008 doesn't seem to conform with present standards of categorization. It seems to be an association category which is not allowed. User:Namiba 19:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Manually merge per nom. Articles don't have to be added to the targets if they are already deeper in the tree of the targets, or (in case of the first merge target) if they are not about a tourist attraction. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States presidents and death

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:06, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:United States presidents and death to Category:Deaths and funerals of United States presidents
 * Nominator's rationale: "[Blank] and death" does not appear to be a standard naming convention, nor does it accurately summarize the contents of the category p  b  p  19:08, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:European Union asylum, immigration and travel visa policy

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: manual merge to Category:European migrant crisis. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting european union asylum, immigration and travel visa policy
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, no conceptual objection against the category but the only article is not even specifically about the European Union. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Meanwhile a dozen other articles have been added but hardly any of them is about policy. So manually merge to Category:European migrant crisis insofar appropriate. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:11, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Selective merge and delete as above. The articles are probably already within Category:Illegal immigration to Europe or other appropriate categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

French Congo
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 5%23French Congo

Category:Nikaia-Agios Ioannis Rentis

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Nikaia-Agios Ioannis Rentis to Category:Nikaia-Agios Ioannis Renti
 * Nominator's rationale: Same reason(s) as those for the recent renames of Agios Ioannis Renti and Nikaia-Agios Ioannis Renti. Stelios21r (talk) 13:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per WP:C2D, this could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Taxa named by Carl Heinrich 'Bipontinus' Schultz

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Taxa named by Carl Heinrich 'Bipontinus' Schultz to Category:Taxa named by Carl Heinrich "Bipontinus" Schultz
 * Nominator's rationale: C2D: main article's name moved to Carl Heinrich "Bipontinus" Schultz to fix style error with single quotation marks. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hindu nationalist terrorism

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Hindu nationalist terrorism to Category:Hindu terrorism
 * Nominator's rationale: rename, although with lots of discussion, it seems that the article title is now stable at Hindu terrorism. If the article gets renamed again in the future, the category name should obviously follow. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 13:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:26, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename. Hindu terrorism does not need to be a nationalist endeavor but can be purely religious. Adding "nationalist" to the name restricts the scope in an unnatural manner. Zerotalk 02:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom and WP:C2D. Zero has a good point. On the other hand, Hindu terrorism can also be not really religious but more driven by nationalism and xenophobia than religion per se. I wouldn't mind "Hindutva terrorism" as an alternative, but the main article takes precedence. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Alcohol advertising slogans

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Alcohol advertising slogans to Category:Alcohol advertising and Category:Advertising slogans
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, only one article and one redirect in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Withdraw, meanwhile there are 4 articles and multiple redirects. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sources of Norse mythology

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sources of norse mythology
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, not a defining characteristic and also substantially overlapping with Category:Old Norse literature. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:52, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:12, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine to Category:Secretariat of Cabinet of Ministers (Ukraine)
 * Nominator's rationale: rename and purge per main article Secretariat of Cabinet of Ministers (Ukraine). Purge articles that are not about the Secretariat. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:17, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It was only 6 weeks ago that someone unilaterally made Secretariat of Cabinet of Ministers (Ukraine) the main article. But, since Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine redirects to Government of Ukraine, and Category:Government of Ukraine already exists, such a renaming & rescoping per nom is fine. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT people with disabilities
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 5%23Category:LGBT people with disabilities

Category:Diasporas by destination country
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Diasporas by destination country to Category:Diasporas by origin and destination country
 * Nominator's rationale: The current name does not match the contents e.g. . What the reader expects to find in the current name is actually within, which could perhaps be renamed afterwards. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:58, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  13:47, 20 July 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 00:24, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per established convention for this type of container categories. I think most people would still not understand what to expect, but it is a container category, so you can only get here by scrolling through the tree and then you'll see what it means. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:24, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. There were past discussions challenging if we should have separate categories for ethnic groups and diasporas in the same country, and what the difference between the two should be (see e.g. these edits:  which remained unchallenged for many years). Previously we did not have a, that was just a redirect to . I think it would make better sense that way, as there is often little difference between a diasporic or endogenous group, and judging which is which is a dangerous call to make. In that regard, it makes perfect sense that Category:Diasporas by destination country should only contain Fooian diaspora by country categories. Place Clichy (talk) 13:31, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * In order to restore the old situation you might nominate Category:Diasporas by host country and subcategories. If you do that we should probably pause the discussion about this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:57, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment, as Category:Diasporas by host country and subcategories have not been nominated, there is no reason to further delay closure of this discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * And why should you not list them yourselves? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 13:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have not made up my mind yet whether I would support that. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LeAnn Rimes
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: No consensus I've read over this several times and not found any consensus. There are three competing proposals here: 1. Delete as nominated

2. Merge the "Works" category into the base category

3. Marcocapelle's hybrid suggestion Both 1 and 2 have received slightly more explicit support than explicit opposition. But I clearly can't close this as consensus to do both, since they are incompatible with each other. So that cancels itself out. 3 was rejected by the one person who evaluated it, so that isn't going anywhere. There is, unfortunately, a consensus that something should be done, but no consensus on what it is. Since several people supported the status quo, either explicitly or as a second choice, it doesn't rise to the threshold of a requiring a bartender's close. WP:OCEPON is worded sufficiently vaguely to not clearly foreclose either set of arguments, so I have no authority as closer to declare one side or the other to be right. And thus no action is taken. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 13:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting leann rimes
 * Nominator's rationale: Not needed per WP:OCEPON as exists -- wooden  superman  12:17, 4 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Now has multiple articles and multiple subcats. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:31, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The album covers files and audio samples files are already included in the articles about albums and songs, so I see no reason to change my earlier vote. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know what that even means, but now there is a category that navigates multiple subcategories and articles, whereas that was not true before. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:17, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge into . If there were categories of works of "books written by" or "films directed by" in addition to the music-related categories, an all-encompassing "works by" category makes sense. There are plenty of eponymous categories for musicians that contain the same types of articles and subcategories without the need for a middle-tier subcat. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 06:41, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a bad idea as is a subcat of . -- wooden  superman  10:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * But there is no wide use of this use or else every artist with song and album subcategories would have this and that just isn't the case nor necessary. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 21:03, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:SMALLCAT states that subcategories of may be created even if they include only one page, wheres WP:OCEPON sets a much higher threshold for inclusion and even most notable people lack enough directly related articles or subcategories to populate eponymous categories effectively. We should be using the "Works by" category, NOT the eponymous category. -- wooden  superman  13:12, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Tagged Category:Works by LeAnn Rimes. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge into  per Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:52, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose merge to  per Woodensuperman and per WP:OCEPON. This is my second vote, the votes are meant to complement each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge into . The "works by" tree is far from universal only 84 subcats for American musicians. In this case, the works subcat seems to small, and makes the eponymous category small, neither of which aids navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:57, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the exact opposite of what WP:OCEPON says we should do. -- wooden superman  08:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're right. My iVote is struck and I'll defer to other editors here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: There is agreement that we should not merge Category:Works by LeAnn Rimes, but the fate of the eponymous parent remains uncertain. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 00:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, OCEPON.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1688576058367:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_18" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  16:54, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:OCEPON. There are multiple subcategories and articles at this point in time; enough to establish the need for this category under our policy guidelines for eponymous categories. I can't fathom how anyone here can be citing OCEPON as a basis for deletion when there are multiple subcats in existence. This a textbook case for keeping the category under that guideline. The fact that the media files of various kinds are used within articles with other cats in this tree doesn't mean that we ignore the need to have category structures in place to interlink and connect the media file pages into the category structures. This was a poorly thought through nomination. 4meter4 (talk) 01:33, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge Works category per Starcheers. We only need a "Works by" category for a musician where the musician has works other than songs & albums, e.g. poems or perhaps film scores. it seems to me that you have misdirected yourselves. WP:OCEPON means that e.g. Give (song) should not be in Category:LeAnn Rimes, but there is no reason not to hold Category:LeAnn Rimes songs directly in that top category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:01, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree with your reading of WP:OCEPON. The "Works by" tree should definitely remain, and there are not enough articles not in that tree to warrant an eponymous category outside of those.  However, I would rather see both remain, than to lose the works one. -- wooden  superman  12:05, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * No, there is not agreement to not merge!  look at Category:Elvis Presley – it directly holds subcats for albums, album covers, audio samples, songs, songs written, etc; there is no Category:Works by Elvis Presley. If "the King" doesn't get one, LeAnn doesn't need one either. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * propose a midway, let us move Category:LeAnn Rimes album covers to Category:LeAnn Rimes albums and Category:LeAnn Rimes audio samples to Category:LeAnn Rimes songs and only thereafter delete the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No, the album covers and audio samples trees are well-defined and none of them are under albums or songs categories and those categories explicitly state that they are for articles about the topic. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly I am confused about this whole nomination & discussson, and I've got no idea what to do about this tree anymore. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's follow the pattern at Category:Elvis Presley. No "works by" category is needed. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Placing album covers under albums makes sense but I'm less sure about the audio samples though. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I note that four eponymous categories have just been renamed to "Works by" at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_14 & following, but there was little participation there, so they have little weight as precedent. As I understand it, "Works by" is only appropriate for multiple media, not music alone, so those four renamings were incorrect. Anyway, it is clear that only one category is needed here, so this CFD should be closed with a merge one way or the other. – Fayenatic  L ondon 04:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I couldn't disagree more. There are not enough articles and subcats for an eponymous category per WP:OCEPON, so it is the works by category that should stay.  -- wooden  superman  10:23, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You could disagree more, if you insisted on both remaining. At least we would both be content if a merge happened, although we disagree about the direction.
 * Looking again at Category:Elvis Presley, I see that it i could be distinguished from this one as it indisputably has enough articles to justify an eponymous category. However, many precedents at CFD would say that 4 articles + 5 subcats (which LeAnn has, not counting "Works by") is also more then enough for an eponymous category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @@Nederlandse Leeuw, it seems to me the main dispute is whether the eponymous category is warranted, per WP:OCEPON.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1691234778482:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_28" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  11:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * From what I can see, OCEPON essentially defers to SMALLCAT. The eponymous category has 5 members (3 subcats, 2 articles) and as such meets SMALLCAT. However, 2 of the subcats could also go under the works by category. Because of this, I think that the eponymous category should be deleted (and the 2 subcats moved to the works by category)<span id="Qwerfjkl:1692302841370:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_28" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  20:07, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 29%23Category:Association football people by prefecture in Japan