Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 22

 &lt; June 21 June 23 &gt;

Category:Germanic folklore
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 11%23Category:Germanic folklore

Category:Government-owned beauty pageants

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting government-owned beauty pageants
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 2 P, 0 C. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, a wholly trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:27, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah we might add WP:TRIVIALCAT WP:CROSSCAT. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete FWIW, the Gambian article says it's organized by a fashion group. - RevelationDirect (talk) 18:19, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Beauty pageants for married contestants
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 11%23Category:Beauty pageants for married contestants

Category:Battles in Drenthe

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting battles in drenthe
 * Alt proposal: Upmerging to Category:History of Drenthe
 * Nominator's rationale: First: It's a WP:SMALLCAT (1 P), but it can be expanded with stuff like Battle of Ane. More importantly: Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 24 set a precedent by deleting Category:Battles in Flanders and Category:Battles in Wallonia with the rationale: trivial intersection between military history and modern regions by language. My own support comment was: We categorise Category:Battles by "country" (i.e. "battles involving country X"), "period", "type" (naval, aerial etc.), and "war", but not location or geography. (French Wikipedia is one of very few who have a fr:Catégorie:Bataille par lieu, but apart from fr:Catégorie:Bataille sur le sol français, it is relatively empty). Only Flemish and Walloon nationalists would frame battles in terms of Flanders and Wallonia, especially if there is no parent Category:Battles in Belgium.
 * It turns out that Category:Battles in the Netherlands by province and its children were created only recently on 12 January 2021‎. There still is no Category:Battles by location or Battles by geography or anything like that. It's a "category tree orphan", just like Category:Battles in Flanders and Category:Battles in Wallonia were. Its parent Category:Battles involving the Netherlands is misleading, because "the Netherlands" as such wasn't necessarily a belligerent in these battles; they just took place on what is nowadays the territory of the Netherlands. (At the time of, say, the Siege of Deventer (1456), the Netherlands didn't even exist as a state yet). I think we should follow precedent and delete any battles category based on location/geography as a WP:NONDEFINING WP:TRIVIAL WP:CROSSCAT. If we decide that it is still worth defining, then we should agree to set up a proper tree, and consider a WP:REFUND for Category:Battles in Flanders and Category:Battles in Wallonia. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Follow-up to your nom on Flanders and Wallonia. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:19, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Update Marcocapelle and I propose the Manescheut ( M[erging] Ane / Scheut) principle: We put battle articles into historically applicable territory categories / trees such as the Battle of Scheut (nl:Slag bij Scheut) into Category:Duchy of Brabant, unless these don't exist, in which case we put them in a History of (modern territory) category, such as Battle of Ane into Category:History of Drenthe. We strive to apply the Manescheut principle in future CfMs pertaining to existing Battle in Fooland categories. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:46, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:History of Drenthe. The analogy with Flanders/Wallonia is not quite right though. If we would create something similar there, it should e.g. become Category:Battles in Hainaut. But that would create ambiguity e.g. for Category:Battles in Brabant because meanwhile the duchy of Brabant has been split in four modern provinces. So I would rather not categorize battles by modern province at all, even if some modern provinces, like Drenthe in this case, have a very long history. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point. I was thinking something similar. Cats such as Category:Battles in Limburg (Netherlands), Category:Battles in North Brabant, Category:Battles in North Holland and Category:Battles in South Holland are based on the post-1839 borders, but contain mostly pre-1839 battles. E.g. during the Siege of Venlo (1373), most Venlonaren would probably have never even heard of "Limburg", much less a "Kingdom of the Netherlands". In that sense, these categories are somewhat similar to "Flanders" and "Wallonia", terms for the two linguistic-cultural regions of Belgium that became well-established in the 1830s and 1840s (before the language border was demarcated in 1963, and the country fully federalised in the 1990s). And although terms such as "Drenthe" and "Overijssel" have existed for much longer, "Drenthe" certainly didn't yet have its modern borders in 1227 (Battle of Ane), and if I'm not mistaken, the word Overissel does not show up in the historical record until 1458. These modern provincial borders just don't work very well for categorising battles.
 * But even categorising them by Category:History of Drenthe doesn't really solve this problem, does it? For Ane it is fine, but Siege of Venlo (1373) still won't really match the history of the post-1839 province of Limburg (Netherlands) (we cannot put it earlier than 1815)... Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * PS: Calling that a "Battle in Limburg (Netherlands)" sounds like anachronistic invented tradition to me. Making something "Limburgian (Netherlands)" before "Limburg (Netherlands)" as such even existed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * For pre-modern Brabant, we might use the nl:Slag bij Scheut of 1356 as an example. It has the following categories, which I'll group into "historically justifiable" and "historically arbitrary" for our purposes here:
 * historically justifiable
 * nl:Categorie:Geschiedenis van Vlaanderen (possibly ambiguous; modern region of Flanders =/= historical County of Flanders; only the latter applies here)
 * nl:Categorie:Geschiedenis van Brabant
 * nl:Categorie:Veldslag in de 14e eeuw
 * nl:Categorie:Anderlecht
 * nl:Categorie:1350-1359
 * historically arbitrary
 * nl:Categorie:Veldslag in België
 * nl:Categorie:Veldslag van steden en gewesten in de Nederlanden
 * nl:Categorie:Geschiedenis van Brussel (Scheut is within the post-1993 Brussels region, but not within the historical City of Brussels)
 * Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:History of Brabant > Category:Duchy of Brabant > Category:14th century in the duchy of Brabant is a much better idea than creating a category tree like Category:Battles in Brussels or Category:Battles in Flemish Brabant something, or putting it into Category:History of Brussels (or Category:History of Flemish Brabant, if the battle had taken place a little further to the west). Proceeding from Duchy of Brabant is much better, like you suggested. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * "But even categorising them by Category:History of Drenthe doesn't really solve this problem, does it?" Agree, except that general "History of ... (modern territory)" categories are entirely acceptable at en.wp. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle Fair enough. How about we agree to put battles into historically applicable territory categories / trees such as Scheut to Category:Duchy of Brabant, unless these don't exist, in which case we put them in a History of (modern territory) category like Category:History of Drenthe? E.g. there is a County of Drenthe, but this appears to have been largely a legal fiction, and it has no category anyway, so Category:History of Drenthe is the proper place for an Ane-like battle article? (In fact, Battle of Ane is indeed already in Category:History of Drenthe, as I expected). Then we can apply that principle to all other Battle in Fooland categories that I would like to nominate next (merging is probably better than deleting in most cases). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:33, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's call it the Manescheut principle: M[erging] Ane / Scheut. ;) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Posted an update under the rationale. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Emirs of Madagali

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Emirs of Madagali to Category:Emirs
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 20:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:20, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Surnames

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting:
 * böhl (surname)
 * category
 * category
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SHAREDNAME and WP:SMALLCAT. jlwoodwa (talk) 20:09, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. We categorize families (if a larger number of articles exists), not names. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * What number of articles is required to justify a dedicated category? Indeed the combination De Liagre Böhl seems unique and so anyway too rare. Thanks, Hansmuller (talk) 09:41, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Smallcat doesn't give a number but the working consensus has often been 5 articles, although not all editors would agree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:33, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete as per nom, WP:SHAREDNAME and WP:SMALLCAT. Sometimes family categories (with shared surnames e.g. ) are fine, but just having random people linked by a surname is not. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Countries results at Miss Earth

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting countries results at miss earth
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 19:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Merging is not needed, the one template is already in Category:Big Four international beauty pageants templates. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:33, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church by country

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename all (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Ukrainian Catholic Church in the United States to Category:Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Ukrainian Catholic Church in Ukraine to Category:Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine
 * Propose renaming Category:Ukrainian Catholic Church in Italy to Category:Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Italy
 * Propose renaming Category:Ukrainian Catholic Church in Canada to Category:Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Canada
 * Nominator's rationale: To match the parent article Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:52, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, also per WP:C2C, this could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nominator's rationale. Farragutful (talk) 18:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Euskal Herriko Futbol Txapelketa
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting euskal herriko futbol txapelketa
 * Nominator's rationale: Single-article category for annual football friendly match - series justifies an article but not each edition, so no prospect of expansion of cat Crowsus (talk) 15:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:C2F. This could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I forget that's there sometimes. Crowsus (talk) 13:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:C2F. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 07:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 11:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - simply not needed. GiantSnowman 11:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mission schools in Brunei
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge to Category:Schools founded by missionaries (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting mission schools in brunei
 * Nominator's rationale: "Mission schools" is unique category name. Deletion or alternative option like we have Category:Schools in Sri Lanka founded by missionaries Estopedist1 (talk) 14:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Schools founded by missionaries per WP:SMALLCAT, or else rename to Category:Schools in Brunei founded by missionaries per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Schools founded by missionaries. What about Category:Schools in Brunei? Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The articles are already in primary, secondary schools in Brunei. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:03, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Schools founded by missionaries, which is defining. No objection to recreating a subcat here if it ever gets to 5+ articles.- RevelationDirect (talk) 22:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Health professionals
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:39, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:People in health professions to Category:Health professionals
 * Category:People in health professions by nationality to Category:Health professionals by nationality


 * Category:Afghan people in health professions to Category:Afghan health professionals
 * Category:Albanian people in health professions to Category:Albanian health professionals
 * Category:Algerian people in health professions to Category:Algerian health professionals
 * Category:American people in health professions to Category:American health professionals
 * Category:Argentine people in health professions to Category:Argentine health professionals
 * Category:Armenian people in health professions to Category:Armenian health professionals
 * Category:Australian people in health professions to Category:Australian health professionals
 * Category:Austrian people in health professions to Category:Austrian health professionals
 * Category:Azerbaijani people in health professions to Category:Azerbaijani health professionals
 * Category:Bahamian people in health professions to Category:Bahamian health professionals
 * Category:Bangladeshi people in health professions to Category:Bangladeshi health professionals
 * Category:Barbadian people in health professions to Category:Barbadian health professionals
 * Category:Belarusian people in health professions to Category:Belarusian health professionals
 * Category:Belgian people in health professions to Category:Belgian health professionals
 * Category:Bhutanese people in health professions to Category:Bhutanese health professionals
 * Category:Black British people in health professions to Category:Black British health professionals
 * Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina people in health professions to Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina health professionals
 * Category:Brazilian people in health professions to Category:Brazilian health professionals
 * Category:British people in health professions to Category:British health professionals
 * Category:Bulgarian people in health professions to Category:Bulgarian health professionals
 * Category:Burundian people in health professions to Category:Burundian health professionals
 * Category:Canadian people in health professions to Category:Canadian health professionals
 * Category:Cape Verdean people in health professions to Category:Cape Verdean health professionals
 * Category:Chilean people in health professions to Category:Chilean health professionals
 * Category:Chinese people in health professions to Category:Chinese health professionals
 * Category:Colombian people in health professions to Category:Colombian health professionals
 * Category:Croatian people in health professions to Category:Croatian health professionals
 * Category:Cuban people in health professions to Category:Cuban health professionals
 * Category:Cypriot people in health professions to Category:Cypriot health professionals
 * Category:Czech people in health professions to Category:Czech health professionals
 * Category:Danish people in health professions to Category:Danish health professionals
 * Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo people in health professions to Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo health professionals
 * Category:Dutch people in health professions to Category:Dutch health professionals
 * Category:Egyptian people in health professions to Category:Egyptian health professionals
 * Category:Emirati people in health professions to Category:Emirati health professionals
 * Category:English people in health professions to Category:English health professionals
 * Category:Estonian people in health professions to Category:Estonian health professionals
 * Category:Filipino people in health professions to Category:Filipino health professionals
 * Category:Finnish people in health professions to Category:Finnish health professionals
 * Category:French people in health professions to Category:French health professionals
 * Category:German people in health professions to Category:German health professionals
 * Category:Ghanaian people in health professions to Category:Ghanaian health professionals
 * Category:Greek people in health professions to Category:Greek health professionals
 * Category:Guinean people in health professions to Category:Guinean health professionals
 * Category:Haitian people in health professions to Category:Haitian health professionals
 * Category:Hungarian people in health professions to Category:Hungarian health professionals
 * Category:Icelandic people in health professions to Category:Icelandic health professionals
 * Category:Indian people in health professions to Category:Indian health professionals
 * Category:Indonesian people in health professions to Category:Indonesian health professionals
 * Category:Iranian people in health professions to Category:Iranian health professionals
 * Category:Irish people in health professions to Category:Irish health professionals
 * Category:Israeli people in health professions to Category:Israeli health professionals
 * Category:Italian people in health professions to Category:Italian health professionals
 * Category:Jamaican people in health professions to Category:Jamaican health professionals
 * Category:Japanese people in health professions to Category:Japanese health professionals
 * Category:Kazakhstani people in health professions to Category:Kazakhstani health professionals
 * Category:Kenyan people in health professions to Category:Kenyan health professionals
 * Category:Latvian people in health professions to Category:Latvian health professionals
 * Category:Lithuanian people in health professions to Category:Lithuanian health professionals
 * Category:Malaysian people in health professions to Category:Malaysian health professionals
 * Category:Maldivian people in health professions to Category:Maldivian health professionals
 * Category:Maltese people in health professions to Category:Maltese health professionals
 * Category:Mapuche people in health professions to Category:Mapuche health professionals
 * Category:Mexican people in health professions to Category:Mexican health professionals
 * Category:Moldovan people in health professions to Category:Moldovan health professionals
 * Category:Moroccan people in health professions to Category:Moroccan health professionals
 * Category:Namibian people in health professions to Category:Namibian health professionals
 * Category:Nepalese people in health professions to Category:Nepalese health professionals
 * Category:New Zealand people in health professions to Category:New Zealand health professionals
 * Category:Nigerian people in health professions to Category:Nigerian health professionals
 * Category:Norwegian people in health professions to Category:Norwegian health professionals
 * Category:Pakistani people in health professions to Category:Pakistani health professionals
 * Category:Palestinian people in health professions to Category:Palestinian health professionals
 * Category:Paraguayan people in health professions to Category:Paraguayan health professionals
 * Category:Peruvian people in health professions to Category:Peruvian health professionals
 * Category:Polish people in health professions to Category:Polish health professionals
 * Category:Portuguese people in health professions to Category:Portuguese health professionals
 * Category:Romanian people in health professions to Category:Romanian health professionals
 * Category:Russian people in health professions to Category:Russian health professionals
 * Category:Rwandan people in health professions to Category:Rwandan health professionals
 * Category:Saudi Arabian people in health professions to Category:Saudi Arabian health professionals
 * Category:Scottish people in health professions to Category:Scottish health professionals
 * Category:Serbian people in health professions to Category:Serbian health professionals
 * Category:Seychellois people in health professions to Category:Seychellois health professionals
 * Category:Sierra Leonean people in health professions to Category:Sierra Leonean health professionals
 * Category:Singaporean people in health professions to Category:Singaporean health professionals
 * Category:Slovak people in health professions to Category:Slovak health professionals
 * Category:Slovenian people in health professions to Category:Slovenian health professionals
 * Category:South African people in health professions to Category:South African health professionals
 * Category:South Korean people in health professions to Category:South Korean health professionals
 * Category:Soviet people in health professions to Category:Soviet health professionals
 * Category:Spanish people in health professions to Category:Spanish health professionals
 * Category:Sri Lankan people in health professions to Category:Sri Lankan health professionals
 * Category:Sudanese people in health professions to Category:Sudanese health professionals
 * Category:Swedish people in health professions to Category:Swedish health professionals
 * Category:Swiss people in health professions to Category:Swiss health professionals
 * Category:Taiwanese people in health professions to Category:Taiwanese health professionals
 * Category:Thai people in health professions to Category:Thai health professionals
 * Category:Trinidad and Tobago people in health professions to Category:Trinidad and Tobago health professionals
 * Category:Turkish people in health professions to Category:Turkish health professionals
 * Category:Ugandan people in health professions to Category:Ugandan health professionals
 * Category:Ukrainian people in health professions to Category:Ukrainian health professionals
 * Category:United States Virgin Islands people in health professions to Category:United States Virgin Islands health professionals
 * Category:Welsh people in health professions to Category:Welsh health professionals
 * Category:Yoruba people in health professions to Category:Yoruba health professionals
 * Category:Yugoslav people in health professions to Category:Yugoslav health professionals
 * Category:Zambian people in health professions to Category:Zambian health professionals


 * Category:People in health professions from Athens to Category:Health professionals from Athens
 * Category:People in health professions from Belfast to Category:Health professionals from Belfast
 * Category:People in health professions from Cork (city) to Category:Health professionals from Cork (city)
 * Category:People in health professions from Dublin (city) to Category:Health professionals from Dublin (city)
 * Category:People in health professions from Edinburgh to Category:Health professionals from Edinburgh
 * Category:People in health professions from Galway (city) to Category:Health professionals from Galway (city)
 * Category:People in health professions from Georgia (country) to Category:Health professionals from Georgia (country)
 * Category:People in health professions from Glasgow to Category:Health professionals from Glasgow
 * Category:People in health professions from Limerick (city) to Category:Health professionals from Limerick (city)
 * Category:People in health professions from London to Category:Health professionals from London
 * Category:People in health professions from Lviv to Category:Health professionals from Lviv
 * Category:People in health professions from Manchester to Category:Health professionals from Manchester
 * Category:People in health professions from Merseyside to Category:Health professionals from Merseyside
 * Category:People in health professions from Paris to Category:Health professionals from Paris
 * Category:People in health professions from Poznań to Category:Health professionals from Poznań
 * Category:People in health professions from Shropshire to Category:Health professionals from Shropshire
 * Category:People in health professions from The Hague to Category:Health professionals from The Hague
 * Category:People in health professions from Thessaloniki to Category:Health professionals from Thessaloniki
 * Category:People in health professions from Turin to Category:Health professionals from Turin
 * Category:People in health professions from Warsaw to Category:Health professionals from Warsaw
 * Category:People in health professions from Wrocław to Category:Health professionals from Wrocław
 * Category:People in health professions from Łódź to Category:Health professionals from Łódź
 * Category:People in health professions from County Antrim to Category:Health professionals from County Antrim
 * Category:People in health professions from County Armagh to Category:Health professionals from County Armagh
 * Category:People in health professions from County Carlow to Category:Health professionals from County Carlow
 * Category:People in health professions from County Cavan to Category:Health professionals from County Cavan
 * Category:People in health professions from County Clare to Category:Health professionals from County Clare
 * Category:People in health professions from County Cork to Category:Health professionals from County Cork
 * Category:People in health professions from County Donegal to Category:Health professionals from County Donegal
 * Category:People in health professions from County Down to Category:Health professionals from County Down
 * Category:People in health professions from County Dublin to Category:Health professionals from County Dublin
 * Category:People in health professions from County Fermanagh to Category:Health professionals from County Fermanagh
 * Category:People in health professions from County Galway to Category:Health professionals from County Galway
 * Category:People in health professions from County Kerry to Category:Health professionals from County Kerry
 * Category:People in health professions from County Kildare to Category:Health professionals from County Kildare
 * Category:People in health professions from County Kilkenny to Category:Health professionals from County Kilkenny
 * Category:People in health professions from County Laois to Category:Health professionals from County Laois
 * Category:People in health professions from County Leitrim to Category:Health professionals from County Leitrim
 * Category:People in health professions from County Limerick to Category:Health professionals from County Limerick
 * Category:People in health professions from County Londonderry to Category:Health professionals from County Londonderry
 * Category:People in health professions from County Longford to Category:Health professionals from County Longford
 * Category:People in health professions from County Louth to Category:Health professionals from County Louth
 * Category:People in health professions from County Mayo to Category:Health professionals from County Mayo
 * Category:People in health professions from County Meath to Category:Health professionals from County Meath
 * Category:People in health professions from County Monaghan to Category:Health professionals from County Monaghan
 * Category:People in health professions from County Offaly to Category:Health professionals from County Offaly
 * Category:People in health professions from County Roscommon to Category:Health professionals from County Roscommon
 * Category:People in health professions from County Sligo to Category:Health professionals from County Sligo
 * Category:People in health professions from County Tipperary to Category:Health professionals from County Tipperary
 * Category:People in health professions from County Tyrone to Category:Health professionals from County Tyrone
 * Category:People in health professions from County Waterford to Category:Health professionals from County Waterford
 * Category:People in health professions from County Westmeath to Category:Health professionals from County Westmeath
 * Category:People in health professions from County Wexford to Category:Health professionals from County Wexford
 * Category:People in health professions from County Wicklow to Category:Health professionals from County Wicklow


 * Category:People from Belgrade in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Belgrade
 * Category:People from Bergen in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Bergen
 * Category:People from Brno in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Brno
 * Category:People from Dunedin in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Dunedin
 * Category:People from Exeter in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Exeter
 * Category:People from Graz in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Graz
 * Category:People from Istanbul in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Istanbul
 * Category:People from Ljubljana in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Ljubljana
 * Category:People from Northern Ireland in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Northern Ireland
 * Category:People from Oslo in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Oslo
 * Category:People from Portsmouth in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Portsmouth
 * Category:People from Prague in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Prague
 * Category:People from Vienna in health professions to Category:Health professionals from Vienna


 * Category:American people of Indian descent in health professions to Category:American health professionals of Indian descent
 * Category:American women of Indian descent in health professions to Category:American women health professionals of Indian descent
 * Category:Kentucky women in health professions to Category:Kentucky women health professionals
 * Category:Irish people in health professions by county to Category:Irish health professionals by county
 * Category:People from Northern Ireland in health professions by county to Category:Health professionals from Northern Ireland by county

I see no significant difference in meaning between "People in health professions" and "Health professionals", but the current phrase "People in health professions" is unnecessarily verbose and clumsy. This has led to a confusing variety of formats, which I have grouped above. Note that there are various other ways in which we could label this set of people, but for now it would be helpful if we could just simplify the wording, without prejudice to any further discussion. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs)
 * Nominator's rationale: for brevity and simplicity.


 * All categories tagged, in these 181 edits. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 14:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment/Question It looks like there are a number of other people first subcategories under Category:People by occupation (while most are not). Is the eventual intent to phase out the other "People in" subcategories? - RevelationDirect (talk) 22:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I wonder what the rationale was for originally naming it Category:People in the health professions > Category:People in health professions in the first place. One thing I can think of is that this wording was intended to signify a containercat: a group of professions rather than a profession in itself. Not sure if "health professional" is or isn't a proper generic term for this group of professions. If it is, then a renaming seems fine (nom's rationale seems to make sense, especially WP:CONSISTENT is a good point); until then I'm neutral. I note that a 2017 CfR didn't go anywhere: Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 26. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support - looking through the subcats I don't see any (apart from one or two which probably should be removed anyway) that don't fit the proposed name and several already use it, eg Category:Lists of health professionals, which appears to have been thus named in 2007. (The 2017 cfd was quite different and also proposed by user:Rathfelder, a notorious creator at prodigious speed of ill-considered, misnamed and wrongly parented categories. Eg, true to form, Rathfelder created both Category:People from Belgrade in health professions and Category:People in health professions from Athens, consistent only in his inconsistency.) Oculi (talk) 00:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Oculi: that's a fine summary of Rathefelder's antics.
 * I would add that he also did enormous amounts of recategorization on the basis of fundamental misuderstandigs of the topic. See e.g. his spree of categorising Dublin biographies, on the basis of his belief that Before 1994 there was no distinction between the city and the county, as I understand it. County Dublin was created in the 1190s, so he was almost exactly 800 years out.
 * Back on topic: which cats do you think should be removed? Is it those in the "others" group?  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 15:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Health and fitness YouTubers is rather a stretch. There's one for quacks too. Should one need a qualification? Rathfelder is a health professional of course. Oculi (talk) 19:31, 25 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:High-stakes poker players
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting high-stakes poker players
 * Nominator's rationale: There is no official definition of "high stakes" in poker. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, there are very few, if any, notable low- or middle-stakes poker players (Richard Nixon). Clarityfiend (talk) 11:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * But that just because every midstakes player gets discarded as not noteworthy, eventhue they have merit of inclusion based on their performance on the circuit tour. TheElvisBelievingBumbleBee (talk) 14:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT / WP:ARBITRARYCAT then. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:44, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Religious groups in Trinidad and Tobago
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 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting religious groups in trinidad and tobago
 * Nominator's rationale: phrase "Religious groups" is unique. No point to make a redirect to Category:Religious organisations based in Trinidad and Tobago, because just a clutter phrase for enwiki Estopedist1 (talk) 10:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. No need to merge, the content is already in Category:Religious organisations based in Trinidad and Tobago. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - it should have been emptied and deleted when Category:Religious organisations based in Trinidad and Tobago was created. Guettarda (talk) 13:42, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Colossal Order (company) games
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Colossal Order (company) games to Category:Colossal Order games
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SHORTFORM Unnamelessness (talk) 09:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose/Wrong Venue The main article is Colossal Order (company) and we should defer per WP:C2D. At the article level, there is a case to be made that the company has become the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC though since "Colossal Order" is a redirect (albeit it one with 13 articles pointing to it). But that's a discussion for a WP:RM nomination and, if that passes, obviously this category should be renamed at that point. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:20, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per RevelationDirect. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:English cricket captains
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:42, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:English cricket captains to Category:England cricket captains
 * Nominator's rationale: This is for captains of the England team ("This category is for the cricketers who have captained England in at least one match", consistent with its subcat Category:England Test cricket captains and many others in Category:Test cricket captains; also List of England cricket captains. The incorrect subcategories for county captains should be removed [now done]. On a related issue, Meg Lanning is in Category:Australia Test cricket captains whereas Heather Knight (cricketer) is not in Category:England Test cricket captains and neither is Charlotte Edwards. Oculi (talk) 09:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Support in principle, but oppose the naming . Whilst I support this, my concern lies around the subcategories, which are predominantly English county teams. Many of these would have been captained by people who were not English. Maybe it needs to be renamed to something along the lines of Category:Captains of teams in English senior cricket. I see that's a bit washy, but something more specific. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The subcategories are incorrect and should be removed. They could be put in say Category:Captains of English first-class cricket teams per Category:English first-class cricket teams. Oculi (talk) 09:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As this doesn't need a cfd I have done it. IMO Category:English cricket captains now looks much nicer. Oculi (talk) 10:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It does. I think Category:Captains of English first-class cricket teams will need splitting, as there are teams on there that are national counties aka minor counties. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 11:21, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You are quite right: county captains can be of any nationality. England captains are not necessarily English either. Mike Denness was Scottish, Eoin Morgan is Irish (Dublin) and many were South African. One naturalises to British, not English. Oculi (talk)
 * Oppose. The proposed new titles implies that is for "captains of the England cricket team", but the scope of the category is not "captains of the England cricket team". -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 12:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The scope is exactly captains of the England cricket team (except the women are missing, which is easily remedied); the wording of the category description has changed somewhat but in 2004 it was "This is a list of the 75 cricketers who have captained England in at least one test match" and the word 'test' was dropped in this edit in 2007. In fact there are 2 England cricket teams in each format, men's and wowen's. Football and rugby have avoided this by not having categories for captains but I suppose the role of the captain in cricket is crucial. Oculi (talk) 01:51, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support renaming to reflect scope and usage, i.e. captains of England cricket teams (irrespective of their nationality), not captains (of any cricket teams) who are/were of English nationality. wjematherplease leave a message... 13:19, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dutch political prisoners
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 * The result of the discussion was: Rename (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Dutch political prisoners to Category:Political prisoners in the Netherlands
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C siblings in Category:Political prisoners by country are almost all named Category:Political prisoners in Fooland. I think this category is meant for the location in which political prisoners have been detained, rather than their nationality. In this case, all 17 people in the category just so happen to have been both imprisoned in the Netherlands (including the former colony of the Dutch East Indies, which was part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands until 1949) and have had Dutch nationality, but that's not always the case. Dutch nationals could be imprisoned abroad, and non-Dutch nationals could be imprisoned in the Netherlands. (Compare Otto Warmbier, a U.S. national imprisoned in North Korea; there is even a whole Category:American people imprisoned in North Korea like Warmbier). Incidentally, the 12 people in child Category:Boven-Digoel concentration camp detainees are all already in parent Category:Dutch political prisoners, so there is some overcat here. Nevertheless, this subcategory is even more clearly about location rather than nationality; "Boven-Digoel concentration camp" was obviously not a country, let alone a nationality, but a location inside the former Dutch East Indies, in a region today known as the Boven Digoel Regency in the Indonesian province of South Papua. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * PS: Sibling Category:Political prisoners in former countries with items Political prisoners in Francoist Spain, Political prisoners in Imperial Japan, and Political prisoners in Yugoslavia, seems to confirm location rather than nationality. If this nomination receives support, I plan on CfRing the following siblings next: Category:Hong Kong political prisoners (cat description Current or former political prisoners in Hong Kong., emphasis by me), Category:Indonesian political prisoners, Category:Omani political prisoners (1 P SMALLCAT), Category:Polish political prisoners (main article Political prisoners in Poland), Category:Romanian political prisoners (contradictory parentage), and Category:Russian political prisoners (contradictory parentage). Parent Category:Political prisoners by country should then also probably be renamed Category:Political prisoners by country of detention to avoid further ambiguities and confusion. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * PPS: Incidentally, Category:Indonesian political prisoners also includes Category:Boven-Digoel concentration camp detainees. I guess this is because the Republik Indonesia has claimed sovereignty over the entire territory of the Dutch East Indies since its 17 August 1945 Proclamation of Indonesian Independence (Proklamasi), which the Netherlands did not recognise until the 27 December 1949 cession of sovereignty (soevereiniteitsoverdracht). So, having them in both in the Netherlands and in Indonesia may actually be a good idea per WP:NPOV, because then Wikipedia doesn't take a side on the question who was the legitimate authority in Boven-Digoel between 17 August 1945 and 27 December 1949. According to the Netherlands (and formally, probably also under international law), it was "Dutch" territory in which a rebellion against the Dutch government was taking place until 27 December 1949; according to the Republik Indonesia, it was "Indonesian" territory from 17 August 1945 onwards, which was temporarily occupied by the Dutch military during the Indonesian National Revolution (as part of the Netherlands' attempts to retain the Dutch East Indies as its colony) and (ab)used for detaining Republik Indonesia-aligned combatants in Dutch captivity. As a (Dutch) historian (residing in the Netherlands), I can understand both points of view. The Netherlands took even longer to recognise Belgium's independence between 1830 and 1839, but the Dutch withdrawal after the 1831 Ten days' campaign essentially made Belgian independence a fait accompli, and English Wikipedia usually also categorises all things Belgian as if the country has existed since the 4 October 1830 proclamation of independence (e.g. Category:Battles involving Belgium starts in 1830). It is also for this reason why I took 1829 as the end date for the List of wars in the southern Low Countries (1560–1829), so that from 1830 onwards, the List of wars involving Belgium can begin. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support renaming per nomination as well. As someone who spent a fair amount of time working on some of these articles in past years I see no reason to object to this slight reframing of the category to fit better with how things are done elsewhere. Dan Carkner (talk) 12:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for co-creating the category tree, and your support for renaming! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. At some point in the future I hope to continue contributing more to this topic area and filling the categories a bit more. Dan Carkner (talk) 13:39, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:03, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Assassinated Central American politicians‎
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:53, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:Assassinated Central American politicians by time‎ (1 C)
 * Propose deleting Category:Assassinated Central American politicians by century‎ (1 C)
 * Propose deleting Category:20th century assassinated Central American politicians‎ (1 C, 1 P)
 * Propose deleting Category:1960s assassinated Central American politicians‎ (1 P)
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, apparently abandoned category scheme. I am also not sure if generally North American categories need to be diffused to Central American. It seems enough to diffuse by country. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete - this was a misconceived idea. (There is Category:Central American political people.) Oculi (talk) 07:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm generally open to expanding the Central America category tree but not here: this is a lot of overhead for what is currently 1 article (Mario Méndez Montenegro). I'm sure there's some growth potential but not enough to justify the tree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete "Central America" is quite uncommon for categorisation. "North America" and "Latin America" are more common, though I will admit that "North America" is often just "United States + Canada" in practice, even though it should encompass "Central America" in theory. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sentient objects in fiction
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 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, so rename to Category:Fiction about sentient objects, which follows many similar precedents. No objection to creating a list which could include objects that should be taken out of the renamed category – so I will list the current contents on the category talk page. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sentient objects in fiction to Category:Fiction about intelligent objects
 * Nominator's rationale: More narrow scope; doesn't include fiction with minor mentions. Not sure why the object has to necessarily be sentient to qualify, so I modified it to "intelligent". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:05, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 07:35, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support "Fiction about" per nom. However I doubt if these objects can be called intelligent. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:46, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment It seems like a contradictio in terminis to label an "object" "sentient". Objects are inanimate, beings are sentient. Of course, in fiction everything is possible, and its subcategory Toy Story is a well-known example of that, but this parent seems difficult to define. A lot of items in this Category:Sentient objects in fiction don't seem to belong here. E.g. is the "Wind Waker" in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker "sentient"? Seems like a magical object but I wouldn't call it an organism that is alive or something. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:54, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That is also a good point. Perhaps we should just delete the category after manually checking that the objects are somewhere in the tree of Category:Magic items. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  02:22, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Support "Fiction about", since it widens the scope considerably. The current title implies that the articles are about the objects, rather than the works of fiction. But I prefer to keep the description about sentience. These are objects depicted as having a life, intelligence, and emotions of their own. Dimadick (talk) 21:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Listify, if wanted. This is all WP:OR. And even if it wasn't, this is conflating animated objects, with AI, with posession, with anthropomorhic objects, with, with, with... Every entry need explanation and clarification. Can't be done through categorisation. - jc37 10:04, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Support Fiction about. Don't know why this was relisted twice. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:49, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep, with no objection to also creating Category:Fiction about sentient objects or even Category:Fiction about objects which appear to be sentient. ("Intelligent" opens up a different can of worms.) There are objects with their own articles: HAL 9000, Category:Fictional robots, Category:Fictional artificial intelligences. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete / Listify with WP:RS per Jc37, who best captures what I was observing with my initial comment. These are quite disparate items that may not even be able to be lumped together under any heading. But if possible, this should be a list that fulfills the WP:LISTCRIT in some way, supported by WP:RS in each case, and otherwise removed. Categorisation isn't a good idea if we can't agree what we're even talking about, much less provide sources which may explain / demonstrate it. The proposed renaming doesn't address this fundamental question; e.g. the "Wind Waker" in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker seems like a magical object, but neither "sentient" nor "intelligent", and it probably requires too much in-universe knowledge to even WP:V this stuff. Listify with WP:RS, or nothing. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete / listify per jc37 and above.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1689094629128:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_June_22" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  16:57, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - maybe listify. I'm of the opinion that "fiction about..." entails that the story is about the objects; looking at Toy Story as a cited example, main characters are sentient, but the story is about aspects of human emotion and experience first and the characters could just as easily have been animals or people.  In order to be about the objects, you'd need some aspect of origin and mechanistic understanding, or at least magical explanation, neither of which are present (unlike Chucky ahem).  To the "why sentient?" - Sentient need not be human level intelligence, but simply an ability to perceive and be self-aware; semantics maybe.  Why am I on the fence between keeping and listifying the category?  I think it is a valid concern about WP:Original research and this being a type of interpretive category.  There are few cases where a human character explicitly points out that a character is a sentient object, and even if it were said, rarer still that this would feature in a WP:RS.  Also, how do we distinguish between innate vs imbued sentience; consider the case of the rock characters in Everything Everywhere All at Once; they are imbued with sentience as they are manifestations of human (or meta-human) characters - do they belong in this category? (let's assume for a moment there is an article about the rocks - which would be highly unlikely .. like most things in the film itself).  Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:10, 12 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List of AA Films distributed Hindi Dubbed films
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 * The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:AA Films films (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting list of aa films distributed hindi dubbed films
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining WP:NONDEF, trivial WP:TRIVIALCAT — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:49, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:55, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete

Relisting comment: The category name is obviously malformed, but would like to see if there's a landing spot for films by distributer. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  bibliomaniac 1  5  02:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:AA Films films per AA Films. I took a look at other distributors and it seems that films distributed by Paramount Pictures, for example, are listed under Category:Paramount Pictures films. Probably could be a subcat of: Category:Hindi-language films. If there was a Category:Hindi-language films by studio similar to Category:English-language films by studio, then subcatting there could be appropriate too. - jc37 04:39, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  02:20, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * RE: "by distributor" - categorisation of films is, in my estimation, rather messy on that front. Films which are only distributed by a studio (even if they are not produced by the studio), seem to be categorized under the subcats of: Category:Films by studio. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good idea or not, just merely that it seems to be current practice. I looked around, and I don't see a separate "by distributor" tree. - jc37 17:20, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In looking over the trees again, it looks like Category:Indian films by studio would be the direct parent for Category:AA Films films. - jc37 23:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:AA Films films dubbed in Hindi. It is a category, not a list.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not finding any other categories for splitting distributed films by dubbing in other languages. At this point, just having a category for the distributor's films is a first step - further splitting into "Hindi films" and "Hindi-dubbed films" can be a later discussion, if necessary. Noting that the article AA Films already lists them - jc37 22:57, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Rename to Category:AA Films films per Jc37. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:AA Films films per AA Films and jc37. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:AA Films films per Jc37. Categorizing films by their distributor is appropriate and accepted, if there are enough films from that distributor to warrant a category, and it's appropriate and accepted to categorize films for the language that they were originally made in — but it's overcategorization to categorize films for languages that they've been dubbed into after the fact, or to intersect language with distributor. Bearcat (talk) 14:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Infobox road instances in Victoria
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 11%23Category:Infobox road instances in Victoria

Category:Germanic women
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename / delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:58, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Germanic women to Category:Early Germanic women
 * Propose merging Category:Women in early Germanic culture to Category:Early Germanic women
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to RM leading to a Rename to List of early Germanic peoples, and the "Germanic tribes" CfM, which led to a Merge to Category:Early Germanic peoples. (See also the "Celtic women" CfR). Additionally, an indirect WP:C2D argument can be made, because main 'article' is Women in early Germanic culture, a redirect to Early Germanic culture (which we may freely read as Early Germanic women). Main child category is called Category:Women in early Germanic culture (so an indirect WP:C2C argument?), but that can probably better be merged into it, as it doesn't really have distinct contents unique to it that are not already in Category:Germanic women (e.g. Category:Germanic seeresses is a child of both), or could not be in it (e.g. Women in Anglo-Saxon society is also already in sibling Category:Anglo-Saxon women). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom, but just delete Category:Women in early Germanic culture because the articles are already in other subcategories of the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:T-Mobile US branded venue
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 17:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:T-Mobile US branded venue
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NOTPROMO, WP:OCASSOC, WP:NONDEFINING
 * We have a whole Category:Buildings and structures by company tree, but that's for actual company facilities defined by the assocation. The three articles here are marketing agreements to rent naming rights: T-Mobile Center (formerly Sprint Center), T-Mobile Arena, and T-Mobile Park (formerly Safeco Field). All three are already linked in the marketing section of the T-Mobile US article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, and per WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:XFL (2001) venues
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 11%23Category:XFL (2001) venues