Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 14

 &lt; March 13 March 15 &gt;

Category:Family of Steven Spielberg

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Steven Spielberg family. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Family of Steven Spielberg to Category:Spielberg family
 * Nominator's rationale: All subcategories of Category:Jewish-American families are "(X) family," with some having a parenthetical like "(show business)". I'd argue that Steven Spielberg blots out the sun on this name, but if anyone is bothered that, say, classical pianist Robin Spielberg isn't in here, then maybe Category:Spielberg family (show business) or Category:Steven Spielberg family might be better. Mike Selinker (talk) 23:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:04, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that "Steven Spielberg family" might be the better choice, just because there may be other notable Spielbergs who aren't his close relatives. The title is still concise and not that persnickety, IMO.  P Aculeius (talk) 12:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Steven Spielberg family, more specific.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Bithynia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: combine respectively. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:01, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Bithynia to Category:Monarchs of Bithynia
 * Propose upmerging Category:Kings of Bithynia to Category:Monarchs of Bithynia
 * Propose upmerging Category:Dynasts of Bithynia to Category:Monarchs of Bithynia
 * Nominator's rationale: Best general description of all people in the cat and its main article List of rulers of Bithynia (where List of kings of Bithynia redirects). I've spent a lot of time today trying to figure this out. Although a lot of literature suggests that Zipoetes I of Bithynia was the first to assume the title of basileus ("king") in 297 BCE, I've found that not to be true. In literature and primary sources, the hereditary guys in power in ancient Bithynia are referred to as "prince", "chieftain", "ruler", "king", "eparch", "basileus", or something to do with "kratein", "archein" or "arkhe"; lots of different ways of saying that it was a monarchy or kingdom. The article Kingdom of Bithynia goes for the latter, obviously, although List of rulers of Bithynia is in Category:Lists of monarchs, so it's difficult to make a WP:C2B or WP:C2D argument. In the end, "dynasts" is entirely WP:OR, "rulers" is not WP:PRECISE enough, and I don't care whether it becomes "kings" or "monarchs", as long as we fix the current situation to something better. (I went for "monarch" rather than "king" because it is the lowest common denominator of all terms mentioned, but a case can be made for labelling them all "kings" anyway). Whatever the outcome, it may also determine the future title of Kingdom of Bithynia and List of rulers of Bithynia. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:22, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Dynasts is a common term in secondary scholarship for the rulers of small states in Hellenistic Asia Minor, who don't have clear titles, like the early Bithynian rulers, but it is a small category and always will be, so it should go. Merge to Category:Monarchs of Bithynia, since, as you say, it's not totally clear that the early ones were "basileis / kings." (The article should remain Kingdom of Bithynia, because that's the common name, even if it's not strictly accurate for the earliest period). Furius (talk) 22:27, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that explanation and for your support. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:08, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:07, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename/merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, with thanks for the concise rationale after research.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Egalitarian communitities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 03:45, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting egalitarian communitities
 * Nominator's rationale: Misspelled and emptied. All previous transclusions given new cat, Category:Egalitarian communities. Mebigrouxboy (talk) 20:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment This category has been emptied by nominator. Liz Read! Talk! 02:00, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Egalitarian communitities to Category:Egalitarian communities, it is just the same category, there was no reason to create a new one. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Egalitarian communitities to Category:Egalitarian communities, preserving history.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Land reform in Estonia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Land reform and 2 others. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza<b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:46, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Land reform in Estonia to Category:Land reform and Category:Economic history of Estonia and Category:Agriculture in Estonia
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1-2 entry. Very few potential to grow. Estopedist1 (talk) 20:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:11, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Emigrants from Portuguese India to Briitsh Ceylon
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting emigrants from portuguese india to briitsh ceylon
 * Nominator's rationale: only used in one article and horribly misspelled Roundish   ⋆  t c) 20:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:19, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree in principle but merge to Category:Emigrants from India to Sri Lanka. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete another JohnPackLambert special — the sole article is already in Category:Indian emigrants to Sri Lanka. Don't rename to Category:Emigrants from India to Sri Lanka.
 * Note: perhaps in response to this nomination, Mr Lambert has just created Category:Emigrants from the Portuguese Empire to the British Empire. There is no need to merge, as he has added the member page into that one. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:18, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Transracial activists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Transracial activists to Category:Transracial (identity)
 * Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT. ★Trekker (talk) 17:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:37, 12 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:54, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge somehow, maybe to Category:Transracial people instead, dependent on the outcome of the discussion below. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:03, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete — none of the members WP:V self-identifies as "transracial", this is somebody else's characterization. South Korean is not a "race". A person of color identifying as "black" is not a change of "race". Heck, a white person who pigments their skin does not become a different "race". This is just a superficial pile of garbage.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge to Category:Transracial (identity) or a new category along the liens of Racial misrepresentation. Transracial isn't even a widely-accepted thing, and whether one is an "Activist" for it is not defining. Zaathras (talk) 20:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per William Allen Simpson, and transracial appears to be a too controversial term that we should not apply to biographies unless they explicitly identify as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:01, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and William. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Transracial people
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Transracial people to Category:Transracial (identity)
 * Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT. ★Trekker (talk) 17:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:37, 12 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:54, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose, preferably we should not have biographies in topic categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:10, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case I would propose renaming the category Category:People who identify as transracial. "Transracial people" isn't really concept thats accepted to be real.★Trekker (talk) 11:04, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In the articles it does not become quite clear that subjects explicitly identify as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete — none of the members WP:V self-identifies as "transracial", this is somebody else's characterization. South Korean is not a "race". A person of color identifying as "black" is not a change of "race". Heck, a white person who pigments their skin does not become a different "race". This is just a superficial pile of garbage.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per William Allen Simpson, and transracial appears to be a too controversial term that we should not apply to biographies unless they explicitly identify as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:02, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and William. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional females
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Nagsb (talk) 08:16, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional females to Category:Fictional women
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional females by occupation to Category:Fictional women by occupation (Mar 14)
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Women in art, Category:Women by occupation.


 * Per recent:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 15
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:46, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:59, 3 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, this avoids women and girls being lumped together. Men should be separated likewise. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose at this level, contains Category:Fictional females by species, Category:Female legendary creatures and Category:Female supervillains which are not necessarily women. No objection to renaming Category:Fictional females by occupation. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:32, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I also do not support the implications e.g. splitting Category:Fictional females by franchise into Fictional women by franchise and Fictional girls by franchise. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:38, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't support the latter either. "Children" do not need to be split by gender. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Then some content would be excluded, e.g. Category:American Girl, Category:Disney Princess characters, Category:My Little Pony characters and Category:Sailor Soldiers would not belong in "Fictional women by franchise". Likewise, much would be lost from Category:Female characters in comics, Category:Female characters in fairy tales, Category:Female characters in literature, Category:Female characters in television, Category:Female characters in video games etc. Then there's Category:Magical girl characters… – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:10, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:American Girl was new to me. Clearly doesn't belong in the category, especially as it includes "eight- to fourteen-year-old boys".
 * Category:Disney Princess characters are all women. None of them are prepubescent. Most of them "live happily ever after" with a husband obtained during her adventure.
 * Category:My Little Pony characters clearly doesn't belong in the category, especially as these are equine of various kinds, and includes a significant number of males (and bearded males).
 * Category:Sailor Soldiers was new to me. None of them are prepubescent. A quick glance at the articles says they are late teens and college aged, originally based upon the author's college wardrobe. For some odd reason they have 2-years-old sized eyes in 6-years-old faces, but are busty, wasp waisted, with extremely short skirts. The taller one has a longer skirt and longer hair that somehow indicates she is a a tough or delinquent girl.
 * Category:Magical girl characters should be women, but inexplicably include teenage males. None of them are prepubescent. Most of the articles are rather on the busty side, althought that could just be the preference of the predominent editors. "Magical girl" and "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" are well worn tropes, but they aren't necessarily young.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "Woman" is defined by adulthood rather than puberty, and this usually means aged over 18.
 * Category:American Girl's product line is predominantly female. The clue is in the name, and this is confirmed by List of American Girl characters. Note that WP:SUBCAT permits "a few exceptions".
 * Disney Princesses start at 14 years of age (Snow White), and the mode is 16. Screenrant says it's "alarming that most of Disney's female leads get married and have to rule kingdoms while they're still minors. It can be scandalous to learn that these characters were getting married as young as 14 years old".
 * List of mainline My Little Pony ponies lists 87 as female and only 26 male, so the predominance is clear. The present categorisation in Fictional females therefore seems justified, but would be lost if renaming to Fictional women.
 * Sailor Soldiers' main article Sailor Moon says it's about the adventures of a schoolgirl, and she is depicted in school uniform. The plot summary in List of Sailor Moon chapters begins with "A lazy 14-year-old girl named Usagi Tsukino…". Even though she and the other main characters have alternate military identities, they are girls.
 * Category:Magical girl characters is under Category:Fictional females by genre rather than by franchise. The magical girl genre is "centered around young girls who possess magical abilities". Magical boys are categorised within the genre category as a late addition to the genre. Within the Fictional females category is Category:Magical girl characters, which is currently a mixed bag but I think mostly girls (with 1 boy and some women), and more clearly girls in the subcat Category:Magical girl characters in anime and manga.
 * All these categories belong in Fictional females, but would be excluded if this whole hierarchy from the top down is renamed to Fictional women. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:54, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "These are plural "Women" categories, not singular. The plural women is sometimes used in certain phrases such as "women's rights" to denote female humans regardless of age.
 * Then American Girl should be excluded on both age and sex. Likewise, My Little Pony ponies. These are Category:Fictional children. Isn't there a guideline against sexing children?
 * Sometimes I'm surprised at legal differences across the pond. We call them "young women". (A classic book is Little Women.) There are still several states with no lower limit on the age of consent, where statutory rape can be voided by marriage. The Little Mermaid was 15 in the Danish original. Original Pocahontas was 10-12 on her first marriage and 16 on her second marriage; changed to 18 in the film because a thirty year-old Smith falls in love with a child would be "sleazy". But half his age is just standard Hollywood casting. All are marriagable women at the time.
 * Japanse school uniforms do not have bare midriffs and skirts are not above the knee. There are no pastel skirts or garish colored plaid pants. Originally based upon the author's fashion forward college wardrobe. That original characters were down-aged from age "18 in Season 1 of the anime" to 14 is just more infantilizing of women.
 * Etc. If you insist that these are children, despite wearing skimpy sexualized clothing usually associated with adults, then I'd certainly agree they should be excluded to Category:Fictional children.
 * Checked a Sailor series on Netflix. Unwatchable. Utterly racist and sexist. They didn't just down-age the characters, they down-aged their voices. Actors in falsetto as children, perhaps age 4-6 matching age 4-6 faces, despite the fair skinned title characters have tits and asses, with wavy northern european color (blond, brunette, reddish) hair and blue eyes. Bad guys are voiced as adults, with darker skin, hair, and eyes. So split those mentioned above (other than Disney princesses) to Category:Fictional children subcategories as appropriate.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  17:24, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe split to Fictional women, to contain Fictional women by occupation, Fictional Jewish women, Fictional first ladies etc. That would then belong fully within Category:Women in art. But I consider that Fictional females is a valid subcat already, as most of the content is women. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:16, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Alternative Why not simply Category:Women in fiction? There is an article Women in speculative fiction. It is in Category:Gender in speculative fiction, a child of Category:Gender in fiction, which is also a grandparent of Category:Fictional females. And as nom has pointed out, it is already in Category:Women in art. "X in fiction" is already a commonly applied categorisation, see Category:Fiction by setting. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "Women in fiction" sounds as a topic category, while this is primarily a set category for fictional characters. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:09, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, you're right, I stand corrected. I suppose the whole argument is about age then. I'll leave this CfR here because I don't really have anything to add about that semantic discussion. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 04:02, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the drive to remove categorisation by gender from girls, female aliens, goddesses, gynoids (in ), etc, which would not belong if we only had  rather than . If Category:Female characters in fairy tales is renamed to Women characters, that would exclude Goldilocks and The Little Match Girl. For all these it's WP:DEFINING that they are depictions of females. By all means split the top category to Fictional women, but there is no need to abolish Fictional females as a parent category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:12, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Bad examples. Goldilocks was originally an old woman, so being a girl isn't at all defining. Heck, in some illustrations Goldilocks is just a boy with long hair typical of the period. (Also the 3 bears were originally 3 bachelors.) Moreover, would the latter story be any different as the "little match boy"? Not defining at all.
 * At second thought I think this may go all a bit too fast. I would also agree with FL's earlier alternative to create a subCategory:Fictional women and propose renaming Category:Fictional females by occupation to Category:Fictional women by occupation in a fresh discussion. At the same time we can have a separate discussion about Category:Fictional females by species, Category:Female legendary creatures and Category:Female supervillains. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:51, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Tagged your suggestion, might as well do it now. The others (creatures, species) are all fine as female, as they are not about humans. Category:Women are only Category:Humans Category:People by Category:Gender.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:31, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * For sure support Category:Fictional females by occupation to Category:Fictional women by occupation as recently added to the nomination. With respect to the top category, you seem to suggest to remove female subcategories after having Category:Fictional females renamed to women, do I understand that correctly? But then female could still remain a parent category of women, as FL proposed? Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Female -> Category:Female mammals -> Category:Women. The others (creatures, species) are all fine as female.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:43, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose It would remove from the category characters who are female but not human. Dimadick (talk) 07:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The vast majority are women, not pseudo-female-ish creatures or species. The parents are Category:Women in art and Category:Women by occupation respectively. Creatures and species are not human women.
 * I don't know about "creatures". But we have articles on female humanoid aliens (Supergirl (Kara Zor-El), Gamora, Deathbird, etc.), fictional goddesses (Enchantress, Sif, Valkyrie, etc.), fictional female demons (Purgatori, Lady Demon, etc.), fictional female angels (Angela), and female anthropomorphic characters (Daisy Duck, Lola Bunny, etc.). The proposal would remove all of them from the relevant categories. Dimadick (talk) 05:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If the rename would have the consequence that female humanoid characters (humanoid aliens, goddesses, angels) are removed I would oppose too, but I think these can just as well stay in a Women category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose per User:Dimadick and User:Fayenatic london, who are absolutely correct. Having the appearance of being female or having female characteristics, does not make the character a human woman. In addition, to address another concern from above, splitting between "woman" and "girl" is a subjective determination at best. And really would just be WP:OR. I think it's fair to say that most fiction does not discuss questions of "age of consent", or of when childhood ends and adulthood begins. Noting that this is not consistent even in US states or countries of the world in real life, much less in fiction. See also Child. I respect the nominator's well-meant intentions, but in this case, this is just a bad idea. - jc37 02:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lithuanian pacifists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:European pacifists. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:55, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Lithuanian pacifists to Category:European pacifists
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 19:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose: This is a component of Category:Pacifists by nationality and should not be deleted.--Ipigott (talk) 20:02, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom, only a limited set of nationalities is represented in this tree, and multiple siblings may be nominated for merger too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Compilations of biographies about artists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Biographical dictionaries of artists. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:50, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Compilations of biographies about artists to Category:Biographical dictionaries about artists
 * Nominator's rationale: If I understand correctly, these fit the definition of biographical dictionary. – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose This is not how RS describe them, and I think would be highly misleading for the reader as they are mostly historical, and stop at eg 400 years ago, and sometimes cover only a generation or two. Many of them cover only 100-200 artists, or fewer, and rely heavily on the personal experiences of the author, who knew the artists concerned. Only one, the Benezit Dictionary of Artists is what I would call a biographical dictionary and has been kept updated. Johnbod (talk) 04:54, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * For example, The Lives of the Artists (Bellori) only contains 12 biographies. Johnbod (talk) 04:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  17:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Johnbod. This and the 14 categories beginning "Biographies about" should use "biographies of" instead of that phrase – consistent with "Biographers of Foo" rather than with "Books about Foo". Ham II (talk) 11:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:45, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * how about Category:Biographical anthologies of artists? – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:46, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt rename to Category:Biographical dictionaries of artists, match parent Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic and sibling Category:Biographical dictionaries of women — Nobody cares that they are limited dictionaries, or not kept up to date; they have been called Biographical dictionaries for centuries. I'm simply not sure that they are anthologies (collections of multiple authors). Although our article includes a collection of selected writings (short stories, poems etc.) by one author, that seems to be with an editor making the choices. Does not appear to apply.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Thanks, William Allen Simpson. OK, forget "anthologies". I support the change to "of" rather than "about". – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:31, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per WAS.<span id="Qwerfjkl:1679601931296:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_14" class="FTTCmt"> — Qwerfjkl  talk  20:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per WAS. As mentioned, it is not essential that they are limited in scope, or not kept up to date. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Biographies by subject
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename the ones that haven't been done yet, including Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographical books by topic and Category:Biographies (books) by subject to Category:Biographical books by subject. I am closing this despite being involved, because it has progressed in an non-standard manner, probably making it confusing for others, even though there is no remaining disagreement. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:45, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Biographies (books) to Category:Biographical books ''(added 8 March 2023)
 * Propose splitting Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographies by occupation Category:Biographical books by occupation and Category:Biographical books✅
 * Propose merging renaming Category:Biographies (books) by subject to Category:Biographies by subject Category:Biographical books by subject
 * Propose splitting Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic to Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation and Category:Biographical dictionaries (or other sub-cats)✅
 * Propose renaming Category:Biography book stubs to Category:Biographical book stubs ''(added 18 March 2023)
 * Propose renaming Category:United States biography book stubs to Category:American biographical book stubs
 * Propose renaming Category:Biography book stub templates to Category:Biographical book stub templates
 * Nominator's rationale: Categories named "books about…" were collected in a new Category:Books about individual people, which was then renamed to Category:Biographies (books) by subject at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_13. There is already a longstanding Category:Biographies by subject which now contains mainly sub-cats by occupation. I propose to move those occupational categories to a new category named accordingly; to move up to the parent; and remove  as it is already in . The new category by subject (meaning by person) can then be merged into the old one. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:14, 24 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Support the first. In its current state, Category:Biographies by subject is not diffused by subject at all, the proposed "by occupation" describes much better how it is organized (with few exceptions as mentioned by nom). Neutral about the third, I guess topic and occupation are both fine. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:02, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * for the second category, I just wonder, shouldn't we better stay aligned with Category:Biographies (books)? Marcocapelle (talk) 14:12, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not think it is necessary to disambiguate the whole of the biographies hierarchy like that, e.g. "Category:American biographies (books)". I admit that I just removed films & plays categories from Category:Biographies about actors, necessitating the new parent Category:Biographical works about actors, but I haven't seen any other cases of non-book media within the biographies tree. In any case, can we merge these for now, and consider possible renaming separately? – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * then maybe I misunderstand, but to me it seems with your second nomination you are proposing a rename, rather than a merge. Category:Biographies by subject will supposedly first be emptied (which I totally agree with) and then be populated with everything that is currently in Category:Biographies (books) by subject. That is practically speaking a rename of the latter to the former, no? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
 * In terms of CFD bot processing, you are right, it would be easy to nominate and process the first and second lines as renames, with only a little cleanup afterwards. I had assumed that Category:Biographies by subject was intended to mean "by person" rather than "by topic", and had been diffused to subcats later, in which case I thought it would be better to leave the old page history at its present name. However, now I think my assumption was wrong – the page was put into a "by topic" parent straight away. So it should be moved to "by occupation". That means your new category can be renamed or kept instead of merged. I would not object to keeping it at its current name Category:Biographies (books) by subject, and making a new disambiguation page at Category:Biographies by subject. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Then let's keep the second category for now. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:30, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Keep Purge Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic (dates to 2007) ✅; Upmerge to parent Category:Biographical dictionaries✅ Split Rename to Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation to save history.✅ Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  17:57, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We have rather a lot of "by subject" where subject is a child of topic. For example, Category:Organizations by subject has parent Category:Categories by topic.
 * Split Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographical books by occupation matching sibling Category:Biographical films by occupation.✅
 * Rename Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographical books by topic matching parent and child by topic.
 * Rename Category:Biographies (books) by subject to Category:Biographical books by subject. Currently, parents are Category:Books by topic and Category:Biographical works by subject. With "Biographical", no need for parenthesis around "books".
 * Women is a topic, not an occupation. Likewise Eccentrics, Mythology.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 19:07, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * While we are discussing these categories anyway, I am also completely fine with changing the clunky "biographies (books)" and "biographies" (if meant as books) to "biographical books" as suggested by WAS. This applies both to the first- and second-nominated category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have added that one to the nomination. Note: I still don't think it would be necessary to rename all the subcats, e.g. by country. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:51, 16 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:13, 17 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:51, 19 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:26, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Biographies (books) to Category:Biographical books as recently proposed. I've updated the update, as the other target would now be Biographical books. My other detailed alternatives still stand.
 * Since we appear to have agreement on a new Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation, I've performed the split as an exemplar. Did I miss any? That leaves the question of keeping "by topic", or manually merging it elsewhere. I'm in favor of keep, as described above.
 * what now distinguishes Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic from Category:Biographical dictionaries? After all, every biographical dictionary has a topic. I would merge the contents up, and move the page over the new Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:01, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That would conflate "by subject" with "by topic". Various parents are separately Category:Non-fiction books by topic and Category:Books by topic and also Category:Biographical works by subject. As I noted earlier, the pattern is "by topic" is the parent of "by subject". Do you desire to merge those concepts?
 * "By subject" in biographies should now be used consistently with the meaning sub-catted by person. The category was created meaning by topic, which was implemented mainly as by occupation. It is therefore appropriate to retain the old page history by moving it to the new name Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation. As for the residual contents currently in the old category, there is not sufficient distinction from the parent Category:Biographical dictionaries to justify keeping it. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree that "by subject" for a biography means "by person". Disagree that "by topic" meant "by occupation". Current topics are religion and women. Hard to say what was in the categories in 2005 and 2007 respectively, but currently there are still a lot of "by occupation" in the parent. That's why I'd put the new Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation directly under parent Category:Biographical dictionaries.
 * I can't see any justification for keeping the six articles in Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic rather than the parent; and moving them out would leave the two sub-cats (religion and women) as the only contents, not useful enough for navigation. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's the value of doing the split par exempli gratia. There are quite a few topics in the parent. My preference would be to split the parent further, moving more topics into "by topic" and more occupations into "by occupation".
 * Doesn't every biographical dictionary have a topic? What would you leave in the parent category? – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:45, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Having given the parent a once over looking for more by occupation, I see a lot of by country. Also, some in by topic that belong by country. There are several more that belong in by topic such as religion and women. Hard to tell what the non-english ones cover.
 * I've purged the rest of by topic articles, there's only 1 remaining. So now I agree with you. Upmerge away! I'll update my earlier alternatives.
 * I've performed the split to Category:Biographical books by occupation as an exemplar. Did I miss any?
 * Note that it contains both Category:Biographies about politicians and Category:Books about politicians‎. Should they be merged?
 * That leaves my proposal Rename Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographies by topic matching parent Category:Non-fiction books by topic and child Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic ; or merging it to Category:Biographical books as currently nominated.
 * Note that it contains Category:Books about nobility‎ and Category:Biographies about royalty‎ and Category:Books about royalty‎. Should they be merged? Are they occupations?
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:56, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think royalty and nobility are commonly categorised as occupations because that is useful and close enough. The same usually goes for religious figures. But the remaining sub-cats by ethnicity, sexuality and political tendency (anarchism) are non-occupational topics, so in this case it may be justified to keep the separate intermediate "by topic" category.
 * Merging "books about X" and "biographies about X" is beyond the scope of this nomination, but in some cases "books" may include novels and speculative works as opposed to bios. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Leaving "Books about X" and "Biographies about X" for manual merges later.
 * Glad we agree on Rename Category:Biographies by subject to Category:Biographies by topic matching parent Category:Non-fiction books by topic and child Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic.
 * ✅ royalty and religious as occupations.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:02, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:30, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Update — I've modified my earlier proposals, as and I have come into agreement. Also, Support the March 18th additions. William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You have marked Category:Biographical dictionaries by topic as done, but I still propose to move the (now empty) category page over the new Category:Biographical dictionaries by occupation.
 * As for biographies by subject/topic, Marcocapelle counted anarchists as an occupation, leaving only African-American and LGBT within Category:Biographies by subject (ignoring this). Surely that now makes "Biographical books by topic" not worth having. Like the dictionaries category, the contents should be moved up, and the page moved over the new Category:Biographical books by occupation. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've marked the "upmerge" as done, my next line has the rename/move "to save history'". Please do that!
 * is wrong, anarchist is not an occupation, any more than "libertarian" or "democratic socialist". Emma Goldman made her living as a writer. She was jailed for distributing pamphlets about birth control and being against the draft (which for some people was anarchy), but we have more accurate terms today (feminist, conscientious objector).
 * To that end, we need more topics, not fewer. Seeing Noam Chomsky in the anarchists subcategory, when he is a self-described libertarian socialist, tells me there are probably many that could be better categorized.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I've done the move. This CFD is progressing in a rather irregular manner, but it is doing so by consensus, and at least the closer won't have to bother about the parts that we are finishing here.
 * As for the category "by topic" (now including anarchists again), should it still be "Biographies by topic" as you proposed above, or "Biographical books by topic" to match the renaming of the parent? – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's a good idea, these are all books, we hadn't nominated that at the beginning. Personally, this interplay of discussion arriving gradually at consensus is really great, instead of mere !vote counting.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sex worker organisations in Finland
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge 1st and 3rd, rename 2nd to Category:Sex worker organisations based in the Netherlands. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Sex worker organisations in Finland to Category:Sex worker organizations and Category:Prostitution in Finland and Category:Organisations based in Finland
 * Propose merging Category:Sex worker organisations in the Netherlands to Category:Sex worker organizations and Category:Prostitution in the Netherlands and Category:Organisations based in the Netherlands
 * Propose merging Category:Sex worker organisations in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Sex worker organizations and Category:Prostitution in the Republic of Ireland and Category:Organisations based in the Republic of Ireland


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 17:20, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:06, 6 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  19:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support in principle, but the third merge target should be omitted (in Finland) or replaced by Category:Business organisations based in the Netherlands and Category:Business organisations based in Ireland respectively. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:25, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support — but contra, these are not business organizations. The third target should be:
 * not needed, as the sole article is already in Category:Trade unions in Finland
 * Category:Defunct organisations based in the Netherlands and Category:Trade unions in the Netherlands
 * Category:Women's organisations based in the Republic of Ireland
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:44, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. The Red Thread (De Rode Draad) is not exactly a trade union, but it is not unreasonable to put it there anyway, it comes close enough and is more specific than business organizations. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I generally agree with the description of these organisations as trade unions (or labour unions), and would be inclined to say they are trade unions by definition, although currently they are categorised differently. Category:Sex worker organizations is currently in Category:Workers' rights organizations, which in turn is a child of Category:Labor-related organizations and a sibling of Category:Trade unions. The categories also refer to each other, but Category:Workers' rights organizations states a distinction: Workers' rights organizations are organizations, other than trade unions, which promote workers' rights. Examples include legal rights organizations that sue to enforce labor laws, and human rights organizations that work to expose violations of workers' rights. By contrast, Category:Trade unions states: Trade or labor unions are unions formed around professional, occupational, trade, and labor activities. I reckon that means the organisations listed under List of sex worker organizations are not trade unions, because they are not (primarily) run by (former) sex workers, but they are definitely workers' rights organisations. Pretty much all sex worker organisations primarily run by (former) sex workers are de facto both trade unions and workers' rights organisations, because they are engaged in the trade but also advocate workers' rights because of all the legal restrictions their trade faces in pretty much all jurisdictions. It seems to me that this calls for categorisation on a base-by-case basis. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:02, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Question about the Netherlands: As List of sex worker organizations and Prostitution in the Netherlands indicate, several sex worker organisations which operate internationally are based in Amsterdam, Netherlands, including the International Committee on the Rights of Sex Workers in Europe, TAMPEP (which for some reason is "hosted from Helsinki", so might also be added to Category:Sex worker organisations in Finland), and La Strada International Association. If the category was called Category:Sex worker organisations based in the Netherlands, these three would definitely belong in it, and it would no longer be a WP:SMALLCAT. Isn't it better to rename the second cat rather than merging it? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * For consistency we should then rename all subcats. However, when all subcats would be nominated I would advocate merging instead of renaming because the whole tree is very small. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:59, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. WP:SMALLCAT doesn't say when a category is too small, nor do I know whether there are guidelines on when categories are recommended to be split up into subcategories for size reasons. Personally I would think the threshold to be somewhere about 5 items at least (which means all current subcats except the UK and US would be merged into the parent), but are there conventions about this? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:42, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Support #1 and #3; Rename #2 to Category:Sex worker organisations based in the Netherlands, re-parent International Committee on the Rights of Sex Workers in Europe, TAMPEP and La Strada International Association to Category:Sex worker organisations based in the Netherlands. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:36, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support the latter too, C2C per subcats of Category:Business organizations by country. However all siblings of Category:Sex worker organisations in the Netherlands should be renamed too. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:02, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the International Law Commission
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Members of the International Law Commission to Category:International Law Commission officials
 * Nominator's rationale: I might be missing some subtlety here but the two categories appear to have the same scope. This is confirmed by looking at List of members of the International Law Commission which lists people that belong to either category. It's not clear if the right title should be Category:Members of the International Law Commission or Category:International Law Commission officials although the latter seems more coherent with the parent category Category:United Nations General Assembly officials. Pichpich (talk) 23:01, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * My bad. They should be merged, but the name should be "members" of the ILC. See https://legal.un.org/ilc/ilcmembe.shtml. TantPersis (talk) 23:29, 25 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NONDEF, mere membership of something is hardly ever a defining characteristic. Possibly chairs of the commission is defining, but in this case I doubt that too. There is a list, which is perfectly fine. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not a mere membership of something, though. The United Nations International Law Commission is the main body responsible for the codification of international law. Being elected as member is arguably the second most prestigious (perhaps, important) position an international lawyer can be elected to, after the International Court of Justice. As I mentioned, there are two Wikipedia categories: members and officials. I did not see the "officials" category (which is not the technical name) and therefore created the "members" one. It was a mistake, had I seen the pre-existing category, I would have simply proposed to rename it to "members". They should now be merged under the name "members". TantPersis (talk) 14:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hardly any article mentions it at the start of the article as one of the major achievements and mostly it just appears as a single line just mentioning the fact. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:14, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:15, 5 March 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Second category just tagged. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably Reverse merge -- ILC is a body of legal experts, elected by the UN General Assembly every 5 years, tasked with harmonising law internationally. It appears to hold an annual session, which has since 2000 been held in two parts, each at least 4-7 weeks long.  The correct name appears to be "members".  It is clearly a part-time position, but highly prestigious.  It probably does not receive a great deal of attention, since much of its work will go on in the background.  There are currently 34 members at a time (worldwide), once fewer.  If we need an officials category, it should be limited to staff supporting the work of the Commission members.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:37, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete The biography articles don't treat this as defining. More a reflection of their prestige than the source. - RevelationDirect (talk) 22:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete both — tagged latter — nearly identical content, per Marcocapelle and RevelationDirect.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:52, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep (reverse merge). It is a tremendously prestigious body, composed of members (not officials). TantPersis (talk) 02:50, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The fact that the body is prestigious does not necessarily imply that it is defining for individual people. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not the United Nations: the body is basically composed of its individual members, which are elected in highly competitive elections at the UN. It is a career-defining election for most individuals. TantPersis (talk) 04:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not apparant at all. For example the article Kamil Idris expands much more on his directorship of WIPO than on his membership of the ILC. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete both, per WP:NONDEF. --Skovl (talk) 08:29, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Blues festivals in Estonia
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 24%23Category:Blues festivals in Estonia

Category:Jurchen rulers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Jurchen chieftains. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:00, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Jurchen rulers to Category:Rulers
 * Nominator's rationale: Per Categories for discussion/Log/2023 February 19, its former parent category. It is a redundant layer between "Rulers" and its subcats. Possibly fails WP:OCEGRS, because the Jurchen are a people, not a state. Its "main article" is List of Jurchen chieftains, an WP:UNSOURCED article full of WP:OR, arbitarily lumping various allegedly Jurchen 'chieftains' in various Chinese and Mongol dynasties together. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:27, 14 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, "Jurchen chieftain" is a very defining characteristic of the articles in this category. Possibly rename to Category:Jurchen chieftains, purge the subcategories and make it a subcategory of Category:Tribal chiefs. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:32, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Jurchen chieftains, and re-parent per Marcocapelle.
 * I could agree to that alternative. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jek (Quba)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete all. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting jek (quba)
 * Propose deleting khinalug
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. –Aidan721 (talk) 16:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:30, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: the pages are now interlinked, so that navigation will still be possible without the categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Balakhani
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:02, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting balakhani
 * Propose merging Category:Monuments of Balakhani to Category:Monuments and memorials in Baku
 * Nominator's rationale: Small municipality in Baku with little potential for growth. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * At least delete Category:Balakhani, it only contains its eponymous article. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Balakhani have a completely different architecture and line of development. And it is wrong to combine this category with Baku. Balakhany has its own architectural monuments. Here you can find architecture from the Middle Ages to the 19th century. In addition, over the past 5 years, large-scale construction work has been carried out in the village and historical monuments have been restored. The number of jobs in the city increased and, as a result, the population increased. I don't think it's right to combine these categories. --Rəcəb Yaxşı (talk) 05:23, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete the first as not needed; rename the second to Category:Monuments and memorials in Balaxanı (with a redirect at Category:Monuments and memorials in Balakhani), following parent hierarchy and article name Balaxanı. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete and Rename per Fayenatic london


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Estonian merchants
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Merchants. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Estonian merchants to Category:Merchants
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:36, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Gamergaters
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:04, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting gamergaters
 * Nominator's rationale: I saw this added to Milo Y's article last night. Per WP:OPINIONCAT, people should not be categorized based on their stance on a singular, niche issue. Zaathras (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:04, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, if applicable people can be put in far right categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:51, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In the case of Milo, I think we're talking about the "activist" part of WP:OPINIONCAT. It's not just an opinion; he was was a prominent advocate for "the cause", and it's a big part of his early notability. That said, no it doesn't seem like we should be categorizing anyone as a "Gamergater". I see the category creator also created Category:Gamergate (harassment campaign) and Category:Targets of Gamergate. There are enough people and organizations involved enough to have extended coverage in their articles to justify a single category on the topic, I think. Perhaps we could just put everyone from "Gamergaters" and "Targets" into the main category (or, if there turn out to be too many people, "People associated with Gamergate"). &mdash; Rhododendrites  <sup style="font-size:80%;">talk \\ 13:23, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've nominated Category:Targets of Gamergate for deletion as well. No opinion on the general category at the moment. Zaathras (talk) 16:22, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Categories have to be clear cut without ambiguity and supported by sourced content in the subject's article. It's not clear to me how individuals would be characterized as "Gamergaters" in an online harassment incident that involved thousands of anonymous social media accounts and lasted for nearly a year. For the two individuals in this category right now, it's clearly a minor incident in their lives that happened 9 years ago. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Renamed localities in Russia
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:05, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting:
 * renamed localities in russia
 * renamed localities of karelia‎
 * city name changes in the soviet union‎
 * city name changes in ukraine‎
 * renamed localities of tomsk oblast
 * renamed localities of belgorod oblast
 * renamed localities of moscow oblast
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining per WP:CATDEFINING, and Category:Country name changes was recently deleted. Name changes are common if you go back far, these categories are missing lots of entries but should be deleted rather than expanded and created for 100+ other countries. Name changes are much better suited for lists like List of renamed cities and towns in Russia and others in Category:City name changes which can give the former name and year of change. Category:City name changes in Ukraine includes two lists but they are already in name change categories with other lists so no merge is needed. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:02, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The three Oblast categories were created after the original nomination. I have added them to the nomination. This was done after the 19:55 post by Marcocapelle. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:55, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Wikipedians interested in association football teams
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:05, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging to Category:Wikipedians interested in association football teams:
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Albanian association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Algerian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Bulgarian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Chilean association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Colombian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Cypriot association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Danish association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Dutch association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Ecuadorian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Egyptian association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Emirati association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in association football teams in Georgia (country)
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Hong Kong association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Hungarian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Indian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Indonesian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Iranian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Israeli association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Norwegian association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Paraguayan association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Peruvian association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Serbian association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Slovenian association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in South African association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in South Korean association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Swiss association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Thai association football teams‎
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Uruguayan association football teams
 * Category:Wikipedians interested in Venezuelan association football teams‎
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT - only one or two teams in each. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 04:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. In addition, many of the deeper level categories per team may be nomination for deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per Marcocapelle


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Machinima based on Second Life
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Machinima works and 1 other. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Machinima based on Second Life to Category:Machinima works and Category:Second Life
 * Nominator's rationale: Only one entry. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:58, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sportspeople of African descent
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting sportspeople by african country of descent
 * Propose deleting sportspeople of african descent by country
 * Propose deleting american sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting dutch sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting sportspeople of north african descent
 * Propose deleting french sportspeople of north african descent
 * Propose deleting belgian sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting british sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting english sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting canadian sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting french sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting german sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting irish sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting italian sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting portuguese sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting spanish sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting swedish sportspeople of african descent
 * Propose deleting swiss sportspeople of african descent
 * Nominator's rationale: Category naming does not provide for by region encapsulating by country. These "regional" categories are also a proxy for race.


 * Summary: Continuing removals after categories were emptied by 16 (and counting) previous discussions.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:16, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Followup to:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 14 result delete
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:52, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * recent participants.


 * Delete, trivial intersection between occupation and ancestors' place of living. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per the precedent of previous discussions. Regional/continental intersections at that level are a bad idea, and likely to be used only as a privacy for race. Place Clichy (talk) 09:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-inheriting heirs presumptive
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:48, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting non-inheriting heirs presumptive
 * Nominator's rationale: This category seems too broad, as most monarchies have had an heir presumptive who did not inherit the throne. Especially in earlier times where the monarch faced a low life expectancy, it was quite common for a childless monarch to come to the throne and wait years for an heir apparent to be born. It is much more unusual for an heir apparent to not accede to the throne. Векочел (talk) 02:41, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: We have other extremely broad categories: Category:Daughters of kings, for instance. Is a category being large itself grounds for deletion?
 * TypistMonkey (talk) 17:05, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:36, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NONDEFINING — Do not categorize by every fact. Many heirs died before inheriting. Some of these are spurious: both "non-inheriting" and "pretender".
 * Delete per nom. Strange category with a strange selection of articles. Place Clichy (talk) 00:37, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep but purge to limit its scope to the heirs apparent or presumptive of kings. Heirs-apparent of nobles either should not appear at all or be in a separate category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:50, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women leaders of China
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:54, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose manually deleting women leaders of china
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT, WP:SUBJECTIVECAT, WP:OR.
 * Note that the cat was CfD'd twice before, in 2006 and 2013, but because of the word "women"; I nominate it for the word "leaders", which is vague, arbitrary and can mean whatever you want it to mean. This cat is just a catch-all that doesn't have a proper scope. The cat itself gives the following description:
 * This is a list (it's not, it's a cat) of notable (says who?) women who led (what are we to understand as "leading", exactly?) China (note that this includes Taiwan; 1 of the 2 subcats is Category:Women state councillors of China, which is only about Taiwan) as its official or de facto leader ("leader" in what sense? de facto according to whom?) or has played a prominent role (extreeeeemely vague) in its national politics (more vagueness), throughout China's history (that is tantamount to WP:INDISCRIMINATE). I think this is simply too arbitrary, subjective and original research. I would suggest a manual delete, dividing the items across better-defined existing categories such as Category:Chinese empresses (create Category:Chinese empresses regnant?), Category:Chinese imperial consorts, Category:Regents of China (create Category:Female regents of China?) etc. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 02:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:00, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, most articles already are properly in the tree of Category:Regents of China and the need for creation of Category:Chinese empresses regnant is questionable per WP:SMALLCAT. The article Chen Shuozhen may be moved to Category:Chinese emperors though. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Too subjective and vague to be of any use. Mucube (talk • contribs) 04:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep but perhaps purge -- This should be limited to women who ruled China, normally as regent for an infant emperor, which seems to be what most of it actual scope. Perhaps rename and repurpose as Category:Female regents of China.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:56, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Marcocapelle


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Finland
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge&purge/delete respectively, as per Marcocapelle. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:57, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Finland to Category:Monarchs and heads of state of Finland
 * Propose renaming Category:Women rulers of Finland to Category:Queens regnant of Finland.
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of monarchs and heads of state of Finland.
 * Category:Women rulers of Finland states This category includes the women who ruled over Finland in their own right. The proper term for that is "queen regnant". All three women are explicitly called that in their lead sections.
 * Semantic point: although neither "king of Finland" nor "queen of Finland" was ever a dynastic title (the Swedish and Russian monarchs preferred "(Grand) Duke of Finland"), except during the brief Kingdom of Finland (1918), the main article makes the point that these monarchs reigned over Finland rather than that they were titulary kings/queens of Finland. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:34, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:58, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt merge Category:Rulers of Finland to Category:Heads of state of Finland. Monarchs are already included in term "heads of state" so a category name "monarchs and heads of state" seems unnecessary verbose. Delete Category:Women rulers of Finland as anachronistic. The current area of Finland was divided among two non-sovereign "lands" of Sweden, East Land and North Land. Purge Category:Rulers of Finland for the same reason. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:28, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with what you're suggesting. This would imply renaming the main article to list of heads of state of Finland, and purging it up until 1917, and referring to Duke of Finland and Grand Duke of Finland for more information. If we are only interested in "of Finland" titles, then this seems the only reasonable option. (Reminds me of the Belarusian rulers CfD). Would you agree? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: This category seems to be trying too hard. Splitting it might be better. The article was  from 2003 to 2017. Since then it has been renamed several times. AFAICT, there is currently only 1 monarch "of" Finland listed, and that lasted less than 1 year. Many were monarchs of neighbors who invaded, who often styled themselves "grand prince" or "grand duke" of Finland. A raft of regents. There don't seem to be any who are actually "Finnish" monarchs. Those are in Ancient kings of Finland. Category:Finnish monarchy exists, but is destined to be small. Category:Finnish royalty exists, but none of them are "Finnish", so I'd opposed it at Categories for deletion/Log/2006 June 23.
 * Good points. Would you agree with Marco's and my suggestions above? And would you like me to also nominate Category:Finnish monarchy and Category:Finnish royalty for deletion? Anything relevant in those cats could be transferred to Category:Political history of Finland, I think. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Marcocapelle's proposal. I think the Grand Dukes of Finland ought to remain in Category:Heads of state of Finland (I don't think William Allen Simpson is right to characterise them as simply "monarchs of neighbours who invaded" - they were the constitutional rulers of a semi-autonomous state). I don't think that any decisions about List of monarchs and heads of state of Finland should be taken here, nor do I think that deleting the information in that article from before 1917 follows from Marcocapelle's proposal. The article and the category do different things. Furius (talk) 21:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair points. Though articles and categories are interlinked (through WP:C2D and WP:C2B, for example), and a WP:BOLD rename seems justified (as "monarchs" is redundant when you've already got "heads of state"), the talk page is probably a better place to discuss the article's contents. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:09, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Marcocapelle's proposal


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women rulers of Egypt
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 02:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting women rulers of egypt
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT: apart from 1 cat, Category:Queens of Egypt, there is only 1 item, Shajar al-Durr, who strictly speaking was a Sultanah rather than a "queen". But that's not enough for her own category. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:25, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 03:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:55, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Cyrenaica
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 24%23Category:Rulers of Cyrenaica