Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 22

 &lt; March 21 March 23 &gt;

Category:Princes of England

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:English princes. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 09:18, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Princes of England to Category:English princes
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename as Category:English princes and make it consistent with Category:English princesses (which Category:Princesses of England also redirects to), Category:Scottish princes, Category:Scottish princesses, Category:Welsh princes, Category:Welsh princesses, Category:British princes, and Category:British princesses. Keivan.f  Talk 19:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency, but I'd rather move all of them to "Princes of" format. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It cannot be done for Welsh princes/sses, because Category:Princes of Wales and Category:Princesses of Wales cover English/British royals who held the titles Prince of Wales and Princess of Wales. Same is true for Category:Princes of Scotland that covers those who held the title Prince of Scotland. Keivan.f  Talk 12:36, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair point, but then in order to contrast to Category:Princes of Wales, Category:Rulers of principalities in Wales would become a lot clearer. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Then it would no longer be consistent with Category:Welsh princesses. Also, I think it would not be accurate either because people included in those two categories are sons and daughters of Welsh monarchs, not rulers of Wales themselves. The rulers are covered via multiple sub-categories at Category:Welsh monarchs. Keivan.f  Talk 17:14, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * How about a formula like Category:Princes in Wales for princes and princesses who weren't reigning as "Prince(ss) of Wales" then? Compare the names of Category:Princes in Europe, Category:Princes in the British Isles, and Category:Princes in Rus'. Princes in rather than of indicates they weren't reigning over the whole of the territory in question, but rather had the status of prince or princess (with)in / under it (either as a child of the current Prince(ss) of Wales, or as reigning just a portion of Wales, say, Gwynedd or Deheubarth, under the suzerainty of the Principality of Wales). At Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 25 I have proposed something similar, and Laurel already supported it for that reason. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 02:14, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the perfect solution to me. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That could be a solution. A separate discussion covering both Category:Welsh princes and Category:Welsh princesses would be necessary though. It's better to implement such changes with consensus. Keivan.f  Talk 15:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency, but I'd rather move all of them to "Princes of" format. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename for consistency with other British Isles princes. The current name makes it look like they had the title Prince of England, which is unsure. Place Clichy (talk) 10:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of Lebanon

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of Lebanon. Tammam Salam will be relocated manually. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 09:20, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Children of national leaders of Lebanon to Category:Children of presidents of Lebanon; re-parent to Category:Children of presidents
 * Nominator's rationale: Per actual category content, these are children of presidents of Lebanon. The only exception is Tammam Salam, son of Lebanese prime minister Saeb Salam, so we can exclude him. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:54, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, and manually move Saeb Salam to Category:Children of prime ministers. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Surely you mean Tammam Salam, don't you? He's the child. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for paying attention. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:17, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of France

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of France. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:22, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Children of national leaders of France to Category:Children of presidents of France; re-parent to Category:Children of presidents
 * Nominator's rationale: Per actual category content, these are children of presidents of France. The only exception is Jean Ramadier, son of French premier Paul Ramadier, so we can exclude him.
 * Sidenote: Louis-Napoléon, Prince Imperial was the son of Napoleon III, who has been both president of France and emperor of the French, but although there is a Category:Illegitimate children of French monarchs (including Category:Illegitimate children of Napoleon I), Louis-Napoléon was legitimate, and there is no category like "children of French monarchs/emperors" (except for individuals like Category:Children of Louis XVI), and maybe we don't need to have one. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:53, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, and manually move Jean Ramadier to Category:Children of prime ministers. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as nominated and per Marcocapelle.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nudity stubs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nudity stubs
 * Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated stub category, with no evidence of approval by WikiProject Stub sorting. As always, stub categories are not free for just any editor to create on a personal whim for a small handful of articles -- the minimum size bar for a stub category is 60 articles, and for that reason a stub category has to be approved for creation, but there's no evidence that approval was sought. It's also not altogether clear that this would actually be of much value, as it's an impossibly broad subject area that could encompass thousands upon thousands of articles -- even just among the ten articles filed here, there's already a cross-section of artworks, models, photographers, naturist activists and television series, meaning this could potentially have to encompass every single model, every single artist, every single naturist, every single porn performer, every single porn director, every single porn magazine, every single porn film, every single television series and every single artwork that has anything to do with nudity at all, so this isn't a particularly helpful or unifying criterion on which to group such a diverse array of topics. Bearcat (talk) 19:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. If there is a suitable merge target by all means merge, but currently I do not know a proper target. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Horizon Zero Dawn
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Horizon (video game series). (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:26, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Horizon Zero Dawn to Category:Horizon (video game series)
 * Nominator's rationale: The category seems to now encompass the video game series as a whole, rather than just the first title of the series. Steel1943  (talk) 18:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename Per WP:C2D. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:27, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename per WP:C2D.
 * Nominator comment: For what's it's worth, I didn't think WP:C2D applied since the title change is a scope change: The other option would be creating a new category at the proposed title and making the existing category a subcategory of that category, but that would create potential WP:SMALLCAT issues. Steel1943  (talk) 18:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Corupá
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:People from Santa Catarina (state). (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:30, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from Corupá propose merge to Category:People from Santa Catarina (state), only one entry as per WP:SMALLCAT GrahamHardy (talk) 18:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iranian dynasties
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename & purge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  10:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Iranian dynasties to Category:Dynasties in Persia and Iran
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C per parent Category:Monarchy in Persia and Iran. Remove Category:Empires and kingdoms of Iran as a redundant layer; both are already children of Category:Monarchy in Persia and Iran. Remove all dynasties that didn't reign over the territory of Persia/Iran, but were only "Iranian" in the sense of the Iranian languages, because language family is WP:NONDEFINING per precedents listed at Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 22. This would exclude Category:Ariarathid dynasty, Category:Kingdom of Cappadocia, Category:Kings of Cappadocia, Category:Orontid dynasty (probably; it was mostly located outside the present-day borders of Iran), Category:Pharnacid dynasty, and Category:Kingdom of Pontus, all of which reigned over territory in Anatolia/Asia Minor or the South Caucasus, outside of the present-day borders of Iran. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge per nom, but I would keep Category:Orontid dynasty in the category since Armenia was part of Iran or a vassal state of Iran during large parts of history. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:52, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, in that case it's better to be inclusive. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 10:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as nominated and per Marcocapelle.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Turkic dynasties
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/manual merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:04, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting turkic dynasties
 * Propose deleting burial sites of turkic dynasties; re-parent Category:Burial sites of the Timurid dynasty to Category:Burial sites of Muslim dynasties
 * Nominator's rationale: Per precedents:
 * Precedent #1: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_January_17, including Category:Turkic countries and territories‎ and many others
 * Precedent #2: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_January_25 Category:Modern Turkic states
 * Precedent #3: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_4, including "Category:Turkic states, Category:Turkic rump states and Category:Historical Turkic states" and many others
 * Precedent #4: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_7 "Category:Turkic rulers", "Germanic rulers", "Celtic rulers".
 * Although it is arguably reasonable to categorise a dynasty according to the ethnicity or native/primary language spoken by its reigning house, the language family that native/primary language belonged to is WP:NONDEFINING. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * PS: Added Burial sites. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support in principle, but manually merge Category:Turkic dynasties to Category:Asian dynasties. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete/manual merge per nom and Marcocapelle. Place Clichy (talk) 10:53, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as nominated and per Marcocapelle.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:32, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:American people to Category:Americans
 * Category:Afghan people to Category:Afghans
 * Category:Belizean people to Category:Belizeans
 * Category:Belgian people to Category:Belgians
 * Category:Argentine people to Category:Argentines
 * Category:Algerian people to Category:Algerians
 * Category:Barbadian people to Category:Barbadians
 * Category:Belarusian people to Category:Belarusians
 * Category:Chilean people to Category:Chileans
 * Category:Armenian people to Category:Armenians
 * Category:Australian people to Category:Australians
 * Category:Austrian people to Category:Austrians
 * Category:Azerbaijani people to Category:Azerbaijanis
 * Category:Danish people to Category:Danes
 * Category:Czech people to Category:Czechs
 * Category:Albanian people to Category:Albanians
 * Category:Bahrani people to Category:Baharna
 * Category:Bahamian people to Category:Bahamians
 * Category:Abkhazian people to Category:Abkhazians
 * Category:Bangladeshi people to Category:Bangladeshis
 * Category:Finnish people to Category:Finns
 * Category:Norwegian people to Category:Norwegians
 * Category:Omani people to Category:Omanis
 * Category:Pakistani people to Category:Pakistanis
 * Category:Jamaican people to Category:Jamaicans
 * Category:Iraqi people to Category:Iraqis
 * Category:Israeli people to Category:Israelis
 * Category:Indonesian people to Category:Indonesians
 * Category:Ukrainian people to Category:Ukrainians
 * Category:Slovak people to Category:Slovaks
 * Category:Swedish people to Category:Swedes
 * Nominator's rationale: Basically it is C2D, and more concise as well. Skovl (talk) 14:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose/Split In many cases, the "X people" category refers to the inhabitants of a country regardless of their ethnic or linguistic traits. See the recent "Mongols" versus "Mongolian people" CfDs: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_20, Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_18, Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_18.
 * Either many of these categories need to be split, reparented or redefined/renamed. Category:Danish people, for example, is a parent of both Category:People by nationality and Category:North Germanic peoples, Category:Germanic ethnic groups, Category:Germanic people. As if a sub-Saharan African woman acquiring Danish nationality suddenly becomes a Germanic-speaking, Odin-worshipping, axe-wielding Viking. (Granted, she'll probably need to pass a Danish language proficiency test and a Denmark civics test, but you get the idea). The latter stuff is probably best grouped in Category:Danes (currently a redirect to Category:Danish people) and treated as a historical category that ends somewhere in the Middle Ages (Category:Germanic people by century currently ends in the 12th century), while we keep the nationality status stuff in Category:Danish people. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:08, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alternative suggestion Alternatively, we can do what we do for lower-level administrative divisions such as provinces or cities do, namely People from X, e.g. Category:People from the North Jutland Region, Category:People from Aarhus Municipality, Category:People from Copenhagen. This "People from X" formula has recently been adopted for other CfDs you have been involved in, such as Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_16 (where People from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth is the current favourite) and Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_16 (where People from Austria-Hungary is the current favourite), both per precedent Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_4, resulting in Category:People from the Russian Empire. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm ok with People from X but would oppose split per reasons of Marco below. Skovl (talk) 06:56, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose split, that would merely be confusing and offers no benefit over the existing migrant subcategories. Neutral about renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - the present setup is preferable. Introducing another denonym-like word is a bad idea. We have Denmark and Danish in category names, but not 'Danes'. And then there are plenty for which there is no usable word: 'British' and 'French' will not do. Chinese. Japanese. And most of the subcategories necessarily use 'fooian', eg . Oculi (talk) 15:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. For some reason (maybe because many pages in he article space are no named), Fooians is in many cases understood as an ethnic qualifier (see e.g. ). Therefore, renaming categories intended for individual people would lead to make assumptions on the ethnic purity of people, and that would not be an improvement. Place Clichy (talk) 10:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose — changing a topic category to a WP:SETCAT form, confusing demonym with ethnonym. This has been previously decided and documented.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women members of the Riiginõukogu
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Women members of upper houses and Category:Women legislators in Estonia. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:33, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Women members of the Riiginõukogu to Category:Women members of upper houses and Category:Women legislators in Estonia
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. No potential to grow. Estopedist1 (talk) 13:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. The Riiginõukogu no longer exists, so indeed there is no potential for growth. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the Board of Control for Cricket in India
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  11:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Members of the Board of Control for Cricket in India to Category:Indian cricket administrators
 * Nominator's rationale: Being on the BCCI board is WP:NOTDEFINING as most of the people there are primarily known for other things (either professional cricketers, or politicians). Upmerge seems sensible to me, some of them should be in Category:Presidents of the Board of Control for Cricket in India. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 12:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge, just membership of almost everything is not a defining characteristic (in contrast to e.g. chairman). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge Per nom. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:SELL Student Games
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:SELL Student Games to Category:Student sport in Estonia and Category:Student sport in Finland and Category:Student sport in Latvia and Category:Lithuania
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 10:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete and upmerge as per WP:C2F. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 12:01, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:SELL Student Games (withdrawn)
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 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 12:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sell student games
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 10:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * : merging request is more correct solution--Estopedist1 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth people
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:46, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian people by occupation to Category:18th-century people from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation
 * Propose renaming Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth people to Category:18th-century people from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth
 * Propose renaming Category:17th-century Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth people to Category:17th-century people from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth
 * Nominator's rationale: The standard seems to be "from". People from multi-ethnic empires should not use a demonym form. See also yesterday's nom for 16th century. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * First of all Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian people by occupation should be renamed back to 18th-century Polish people by occupation‎, because as you can see in the Category:Polish people by century and occupation it's an outlier. This category contains people of Polish nationality or ethnicity, co calling it "Polish-Lithuanian" is wrong, as this adjective is used for people of mixed Polish-Lithuanian identity (in most cases citizens of Grand Duchy of Lithuania of Polish culture or vice versa); or should be a parent category for "Polish people" and "Lithuanian people" of 18th century. Marcelus (talk) 09:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply The comment above is a very good reason we should avoid the tyranny of demonyms. The editor has assumed that the scope of the category is "nationality"; it is not. This is because there is/was no such thing as a Polish–Lithuanian national; one is either Polish or Lithuanian or Jewish or Rus'. All of these nationals were citizens of the Commonwealth. Instead, this category has a "by country" (or "by empire if you like) scope. Hence the need for a longer name. It should not be renamed back to 18th-century Polish people by occupation‎ because many were Lithuanian or Jewish or Rus' nationals. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:59, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * But we have currently Category:18th-century Ukrainian people by occupation and Category:18th-century Lithuanian people by occupation, but we don't have Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation, why is that? Plus the category contains only Polish people, and there was a Polish country (Crown of the Kingdom of Poland), the same there is Wales and United Kingdom today. We have Category:20th-century Welsh people by occupation, Category:20th-century English people by occupation simultanously to Category:20th-century British people by occupation. Why the "Polish case" is different? Marcelus (talk) 10:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We have it because of nationalistic-minded editors. "My country wasn't just established in 1919, it has existed for centuries". Complete guff, but there's a lot of it about. It is not historical to speak of "18th-century Ukraine" as no such country existed. It is possible to argue that Ukrainians as an ethnic group existed in the 18th century (but they might have self-identified as Ruthenian / Little Rus'). This is where the use of demonyms is so pernicious - they elide this important distinction. Demonyms allow us to pretend that "18th-century Ukrainian people" can mean either the state or the nation; in some cases that is true (e.g. islands like Cyprus and Ireland), but in most cases it is not true. Precision is to be preferred over sleight-of-hand. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry but you are wrong, we are interested in what the sources say. If Ivan Kotliarevsky is defined by WP:RS as a "Ukrainian writer" then he should be in the Category:18th-century Ukrainian writers category, whether Wikipedians are "nationalist-minded" or not is irrelevant.
 * The fact that there is no Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation category is WP:OR and should be changed as soon as possible. Marcelus (talk) 12:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Laurel is right. See also my comments under the CfR "Category:American people" above, where ethnicity/language and nationality/citizenship are inappropriately mixed up so as to disqualify anyone not belonging to the majority-language group or majority-ethnic group in a country from ever becoming a citizen of that country. Which is incorrect, of course. This line of thinking and categorisation is the result of ethnic nationalism, plain and simple, and Wikipedia should fix it. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:43, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's wrong we should follow WP:RS, that's your own POV. If some person is described as "Polish" he should be in such category, if he is described as "Lithuanian" he should be in that category, if he is described as both he should be in two categories. That's the only proper way to do this, that follows policies and guidelines. Marcelus (talk) 09:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Cukrakalnis (talk) 16:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and precedent Category:People from the Russian Empire. I assume you forgot the word 'Commonwealth' in the first target, and that you meant Category:18th-century people from the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops Thank you. Error fixed. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep or rename as nominated, by having "Commonwealth" in the name it is sufficiently clear that it concerns categorization by country rather than by language. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 23 March 2023 (UTC)


 * COMMENT: The mess needs to be cleaned up once and for all. Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation was merged with Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian people by occupation in early 2022 at the request of . Later, the same user tried to undo the process (in June 28, 2022). Rightly arguing that: Poland and Lithuania continued to have considerable independent existence during the Commonwealth, with seperate political arrangements. I suggest that it would be more sensible for Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation to be a subcategory of Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth people as Category:18th-century Lithuanian people by occupation is.


 * He is absolutely right, at this point it is a complete mess. There is no category for "Polish people of 18th century", they have all been catagorized as "Polish-Lithuania" which is WP:OR because many of them are referred to by WP:RS as Poles and not "Polish-Lithuanian" (see: Polish-Lithuanian identity). Moreover, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was inhabited by people of various nationalities, including Poles. At this point we have categories for 18th-century Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Germans, etc., but not for Poles.


 * In summary this category should be renamed Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation, a parent category should be created for it called Category:18th-century people from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation.


 * Contrary to what claims, talking about Poles in the 18th century is not a manifestation of "nationalism," but firstly respecting WP:RS, and secondly realizing that the PLC was a federated state, consisting of two states: the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which did not cease to exist after the union.Marcelus (talk) 10:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Reply I see nothing in what you have written that is contrary to the current nomination. It fixes the "by state" problem. Your comments address the "by nation" problem. They should be raised as a separate nomination. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not really, because as I said: In summary this category should be renamed Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation, a parent category should be created for it called Category:18th-century people from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation. Marcelus (talk) 08:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What about Jan Henryk Wołodkowicz? Would he be happy to be called Polish? Yet he sits quite happily in Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian people by occupation. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:35, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Why shouldn't it be? A typical representative of the nobility of the period. He was Lithuanian and Polish and even French. There is nothing unusual about this figure. Marcelus (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * His article only describes him as Lithuanian. I see no citations for any other nationality. Yes he was a citizen of the P-LC state, but that does not make him a P-LC person. That's the whole point. You are mistakenly conflating the two entities. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Laurel Lodged, but this category at the very start was about "Polish people", then it was moved to "Polish-Lithuanian people", as a result, there is no category for Poles in the 18th century. First of all, this is procedurally wrong. Therefore, this erroneous transfer must be reversed.
 * Even if this one character should not be in this category (which is doubtful, simply the Polishness of this character is not mentioned in the article yet) it does not change much. Marcelus (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * One exception is sufficient to undermine the argument. There are tree structures "by state" and there are tree structures "by nation"; this is the former. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Why? Just remove him from the category. Also there was both Polish state and Polish nation in 18th century so your argument is irrelevant Marcelus (talk) 17:00, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:26, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as nominated. This is the name of the "empire" collection of states. Clean up anything else mentioned in future nominations. WP:OCEGRS provides for ethnicity by occupation only in rare circumstances.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of Czech Republic
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:38, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:History of Czech Republic to Category:History of the Czech Republic
 * Nominator's rationale: Why separated? Estopedist1 (talk) 07:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per WP:C2A. Former was created only a few weeks ago. could you also nom all subcategories of Category:History of Czech Republic? Thanks in advance. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nederlandse Leeuw: I hope that a Czech enthusiast does the job. I just wanted to show an obvious mistake Estopedist1 (talk) 19:24, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. In a few years time we can probably do it all over again once we agree to just call the country "Czechia". ;) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom, this could have been listed at speedy. Adding subcategories to the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:History of Czech Republic by period to Category:History of the Czech Republic by period
 * Propose merging Category:Centuries in Czech Republic to Category:Centuries in the Czech Republic
 * Propose merging Category:Millennia in Czech Republic to Category:Millennia in the Czech Republic
 * Propose merging Category:Years in Czech Republic to Category:Years in the Czech Republic
 * Propose merging Category:History of Czech Republic by topic to Category:History of the Czech Republic by topic
 * Propose renaming Category:Cultural history of Czech Republic to Category:Cultural history of the Czech Republic
 * Propose renaming Category:History of literature in Czech Republic to Category:History of literature in the Czech Republic

William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:50, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support all - clearly. Oculi (talk) 15:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support most, except Category:Millennia in Czech Republic to Category:Millennia in the Czech Republic, which should be deleted instead.
 * In the latter case, merge and delete will have the same effect. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of Russia
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of Russia. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:42, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Children of national leaders of Russia to Category:Children of presidents of Russia
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per actual category content, these are children of presidents Yeltsin and Putin. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:24, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional children of heads of government
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Fictional children of heads of state. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 09:40, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional children of heads of government to Category:Fictional children of heads of state
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per actual category content. Monarchs are not usually the head of government while they are always head of state. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:24, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. The POTUS is both head of state and govt, and it's hard to separate these two functions in practice, but I'd say the function of head of state (including Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces) is far more important (both in reality and in fiction) than being the "prime minister" during cabinet meetings. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.