Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 30

 &lt; November 29 December 1 &gt;

Category:Actresses by city or town

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename as nominated for the first two. For Category:Actors by city or town in France, rename to Category:French actors by populated place (C2C is a very strong argument). (non-admin closure) House Blaster talk 01:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Actresses by city or town to Category:Actresses by populated place
 * Propose renaming Category:Male actors by city or town to Category:Male actors by populated place
 * Propose renaming Category:Actors by city or town in France to Category:Actors by populated place in France
 * Nominator's rationale: opposed at speedy. However, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_22. Mason (talk) 21:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:Actors by city or town in France to Category:Actors by populated place in France – C2C: parent is Category:Actors by country and populated place Mason (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * oppose C2C would keep things as "by city or town" based on sibling categories. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There was a discussion about this per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_22#Category:People_by_city_or_town Mason (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Moving to FullMason (talk) 21:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Male actors by city or town to Category:Male actors by populated place – C2C: per Category:Actors by populated place. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose All of the child categories of the category to be moved are of the format "by city or town", meaning that this change would be taken as a signal to revise all child categories. The only child category of the targeted name-format is that related to the United States, suggesting that the US sub-cat needs renaming by C2C criteria.  Not a speedy. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * fyi there was a pretty clear consensus on this for americansCategories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_4 Mason (talk) 02:18, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * and here per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_22#Category:People_by_city_or_town Mason (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Moving to FullMason (talk) 21:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:Actresses by city or town to Category:Actresses by populated place – C2C: per Category:Actors by populated place. –Aidan721 (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose All of the child categories of the category to be moved are of the format "by city or town", meaning that this change would be taken as a signal to revise all child categories. The only child category of the targeted name-format is that related to the United States, suggesting that the US sub-cat needs renaming by C2C criteria.  Not a speedy. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This was discussed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_22#Category:People_by_city_or_town Mason (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Moving to FullMason (talk) 21:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Mason (talk) 21:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Better consistency. –Aidan721 (talk) 21:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Updated to add the other two. Sorry for the double . Mason (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, this fits a trend to rename and merge all cities, towns, villages, hamlets. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename all: clearer, as "populated place" covers cities, towns, villages, hamlets, metropolises (metropoli?) and so on – it represents the intended scope of such a category and prevents any nit-picking. Edward-Woodrow (talk) 01:27, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename for consistency with all other categories. Although the French one should be Category:French actors by populated place. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 14:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point about the French one, WP:C2C per Category:French actors. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prussian military personnel

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Prussian military personnel by province. (non-admin closure) House Blaster talk 01:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Prussian military personnel to Category:Military personnel of Prussia
 * Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category Mason (talk) 19:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Prussian military personnel by province per actual content. I don't see a reason for merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Even better suggestion! Mason (talk) 22:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per Marcocapelle. It's funny, the history shows that I created Category:Prussian military personnel 5 years ago (way after Category:Military personnel of Prussia was created) but I have absolutely no recollection of my intent. Pichpich (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary in Bosnia and Herzegovina

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary. Marcocapelle's argument is very strong; potentially adding any of the articles currently in this category (Gisela Januszewska, Bohuslava Kecková, and Teodora Krajewska) to Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina physicians can be discussed at the relevant talk page. (non-admin closure) House Blaster talk 20:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose splitting Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary in Bosnia and Herzegovina to Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina physicians and Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection we don't categorize doctors by where they practice Mason (talk) 19:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Physicians from Austria-Hungary per nom, but not to Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina physicians since neither of the three articles is about a Bosnia and Herzegovina physician. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Novel awards by country
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: deleted under G7. (non-admin closure) Edward-Woodrow (talk) 01:28, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting novel awards by country
 * Nominator's rationale: made in error Themightyquill (talk) 09:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * you might tag this page as . Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * , I've tagged the page for speedy deletion. Pichpich (talk) 00:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Comics characters with spider powers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete Category:Comics characters with spider powers. Category:Fictional characters with spider powers would need to have a separate discussion on its own right first.  bibliomaniac  1  5  06:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Comics characters with spider powers to Category:Comics characters by superhuman feature or ability and Category:Fictional characters with spider powers
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge both Category:Marvel Comics characters with spider powers and Category:Comics characters with spider powers into Category:Fictional characters with spider powers. AHI-3000 (talk) 18:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should merge the Marvel Comics category too, because this is a well-populated category which properly fits in Category:Marvel Comics characters by superhuman feature or ability. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Marco on this one. I'm neutral about Category:Comics characters with spider powers, but Category:Marvel Comics characters with spider powers should not be merged. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 05:48, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: It actually included more pages and subcats, but looks like they were removed by other users, likely AHI-3000. Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 11:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * IIRC, most of the content was already concentrated in Category:Marvel Comics characters with spider powers to begin with. AHI-3000 (talk) 18:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete both "spider powers" categories. All of these are WP:NARROWCAT and unnecessary. There is no need for such an overspecific category as "spider powers" (there is not really even a reason to go past being "spider themed" much less base it on the nature of their powers). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Zxcvbnm. All members of the category, except for the redirect in the main, are related to Spider-Man in some way. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 17:12, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Deletion instead of merging is a whole new discussion. This is not something I would oppose, also considering that the concept of "spider powers" is rather ill-defined. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Incest in legend
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Incest in legend

Category:Agricultural researchers in India
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus.  bibliomaniac  1  5  06:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting agricultural researchers in india
 * Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category, merge in principle, but I've already added each person to their specific vocation (such as Botanists active in India, Indian agronomists). the parent category "Researchers in India" was merged into Indian scientists. Mason (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * keep and improve I would argue that agricultural researchers cross traditional expertise categories and were/are supported by the governments both British and Indian. Includes a mix of chemists, microbiologists, pathologist, biochemists, entomologists, botanists, plant breeders, statisticians, and so on. Shyamal (talk) 02:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * How do you suggest we improve it? Because the name at present isn't helpful. Is this category supposed to be about agricultural researchers active in India? Is it supposed to be indian nationals who are agricultural researchers? Mason (talk) 02:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As indicated by the wording, it is nationality and time agnostic. There is a fairly well defined circumscription for "agricultural research". Agricultural research was and is a major field of research with colonial and socialist sponsorship. You added Leslie C. Coleman to "botanists" (for having described one species of fungus!), that would be a very poor descriptor for a person who held a position as a "director of agriculture" in India and came from Canada. The loss of historical context is huge in removing this category which potentially has a very large number of notables. I am sure the same could be done for work in other countries, it just happens that the classification is currently lacking parallels from other countries. In places like the US there is the Agricultural Research Service under the USDA. In India there is the ICAR but a category like "ICAR employee" would be too restrictive and could at best be a subcategory as there are state as well as federal services. In some languages like French "Agronomy" is considered equalent to "agricultural science" but the term agronomy as used in India is a subset of agricultural science and research. Shyamal (talk) 13:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * So I understand that you @Shyamal thought the wording was clear, but given the conventions for categories, this category would be named "Indian agricultural researchers" if the researchers were "Indian nationals", or Agricultural researchers active in India if the researchers were defined by the location of their research, which I think is what you mean by "nationality [...] agnostic"
 * Can you point to some example occupation categories that match what you have in mind? Because I thought medical researchers was a close analogue. Mason (talk) 22:14, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not sure what more is needed - there are categories like Category:Research_in_Africa, Category:Botanists_by_location_of_research and Category:Botanists_active_in_South_Asia (although I cannot see why active is not entirely redundant). If you want to follow the scheme of researchers in "subject area" - perhaps like Category:Researchers_in_Rapa_Nui_archaeology then maybe you could alternately consider the Americanized style of "researchers in Indian agriculture". Shyamal (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Also check out Category:Baptist missionaries in India Shyamal (talk) 16:06, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for digging these up. They're helpful at seeing what you're intent is for the category. I think something like "Agricultural researchers active in India" captures your intent within the category structure. But, I'm not really sure that the location of research is defining for agricultural researchers. My understanding is that for botanists, the researcher is active in a specific location, similar to how archeologists are active in certain dig sites/cultures. Are Agricultural researchers typically focused around a specific region, as opposed to a specific crop or method? Mason (talk) 19:17, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I am surprised that you are asking for this information after all this. Any person who deals with the history of agriculture would know - here are some old sources 1234 - Any reader would expect all the people mentioned in those volumes to be discoverable under a single category. Shyamal (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, too vague in comparison to other existing categories in this field. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Would this category also be vague Category:Agricultural_research_institutes_in_India? Shyamal (talk) 13:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * More specific categories than this do not exist, so there is no redundancy here. That is different for occupations. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Wonderful to learn this. I give up. By this logic you should be deleting - Category:Medical_researchers as well. Shyamal (talk) 14:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * As I mentioned, this location matters for places with a colonial history - people were posted from other locations. I see geologists having a similar situation for India - there were people from Ireland, Moravia, US etc working in India. I still see botanists "active in" as being redundant and inaccurate. If it was collectors I understand it but you can be a botanist or entomologist who is a specialist Indian taxa and be entirely resident in the Natural History Museum in London. I think the overall categorization fails in an understanding of location-based science particularly in the colonial context. I do not see a need to be fixated on how similar the grammar needs to be across categories. There should actually be similar categories to deal with agricultural researchers i n the Carribean, the Dutch East Indies etc. There can be differences - we see that parallels already exists that are precise and concise. Shyamal (talk) 12:52, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional Arabs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 19:32, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional Arabs to Category:Fictional Middle Eastern people
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, this category confuses Arab ethnicity with the Arab world aka Middle East. People from the Middle East aren't all Arabs. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. This category is large enough on its own. AHI-3000 (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, keep in mind that Category:Arab people has subcategories for people from all the different Arabic-speaking countries in it, so unless this is changed I think that justifies the inclusion of all their respective fictional counterparts under Category:Fictional Arabs. AHI-3000 (talk) 00:37, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a complete distortion of the scope of the category. It is defining for a fictional character to be described as an Arab, as for many other ethnicities. This is completely irrelevant with membership of countries in the Arab League, countries which all have non-Arabic population. are not Arabs, for instance! Your robot-like work of thoughtlessly copying the structure of non-fiction people categories into the realm of fictional characters creates a mess. Firstly what defines a fictional character is different, especially in the realm of ethnicity, as characters are often correctly defined by a few stereotypes, while real people never are. Secondly, even nonfiction categories are sometimes wrong. Place Clichy (talk) 03:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What exactly is your point here? People from Arabic-speaking countries are generally considered to be Arabs unless part of a non-Arab minority group. Modern Egyptians are generally considered to be Arabs, and most people don't dispute this notion. AHI-3000 (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Unknowledgeable people don't dispute it. Wikipedia exists to make people more knowledgeable, not less. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? People from Arabic-speaking countries often self-identify as Arabs. AHI-3000 (talk) 11:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The Kurds in Iraq and Syria, the Copts in Egypt, the Kabyles in Algeria, the Berbers in Morocco and Tunisia are just a few significant minorities which strongly identify apart from the Arab majority, numbering in dozens of millions. The significant Armenian community in Lebanon can't be called Arabs by any stretch. A solution here would be to use a fictional Arabs category only for articles for characters which are explicitly individually defined as Arab (not Iraqi or Lebanese or Egyptian) and not geographic sub-categories. But as the term Arab is used so vaguely with conflicting meanings, merging to Middle Eastern may be a better outcome. Place Clichy (talk) 04:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  18:05, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Changed to Keep, provided this category is rescoped for fictional characters of explicit Arab ethnicity, and not loosely related to Arab countries in the geographical sense. Place Clichy (talk) 13:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Changed back, as an editor is again confusing ethnicity and geography, making the scope of this category unclear. If based on geography, it should be called Middle Eastern. If based on ethnicity, it should be called Arab. It can't be both. Place Clichy (talk) 03:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom Mason (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge Most characters who are Arabs are from the Middle East or can be sorted into Category:Fictional Arab-American people. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 20:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Apparently, the Middle Eastern country subcats are gone, leaving only two categories that are indeed for Arab people. I have not inspected the articles for correctness. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 18:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Category:Fictional Arabs has been around uncontested for a long time. Category:Fictional Middle Eastern people was recently added, and I'd like to see a reason *that* one is necessary to exist when it's largely redundant. I'm not saying it necessarily shouldn't, but they don't overlap entirely. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Arabs are an ethnic group, "Middle Eastern people" is just a vaguely-defined geographic term. Dimadick (talk) 20:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is that we often do not know whether they belong to the ethnic group, we just know they are from the Middle East. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lists of people by place in the United Kingdom
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Lists of British people by location.  bibliomaniac  1  5  06:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Lists of people by place in the United Kingdom to Category:Lists of British people by location
 * Nominator's rationale: Duplicate categories. I have a slight preference for the target name because it is more consistent with parent and children  and, and because there is a preference for names where the splitter is at the end per . Place Clichy (talk) 13:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not all of people from UK are British. --Frenchl (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge per Frenchl Mason (talk) 19:03, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That is also a possibility. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:27, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * (answered after relisting) While I could live with a reverse merge, I don't think that the opposing argument makes much sense. These categories for people... in the United Kingdom are casually placed in parent categories named for British people: is currently in parents  and, and  has  as a child. There are no children categories for these mysterious non-British UK people, except if you consider the English and Scottish categories as that, which is quite a stretch. This hypothetical difference between British and non-British people from the UK is not not present at the level of parent categories either. It does not exist for any other country, e.g. we don't have parallel trees for  next to , despite the well-known fact that ca. 90% of residents of Qatar are not Qatari nationals. I don't think it would be workable to try and have such a distinction in categories (it should be made clear in every article when possible though, of course). Please merge anyway whatever the consensus target turns out to be, as a better outcome to the status quo. I still slightly prefer the initial target, because of the format of the parent categories. Place Clichy (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Order of Zayed
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 01:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting recipients of the order of zayed
 * Nominator's rationale: Previously deleted by Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 23. A nomination for speedy deletion under Criteria for speedy deletion was declined. Celia Homeford (talk) 10:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - As I stated in the speedy deletion nomination, the category was previously not consistent with other categories relating to national honors, and was deleted based on it's previous flaws. I am maintaining this category and in it's current state is not there is no rational for deletion. Vyvagaba (talk) 10:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, it is exactly what User:Peterkingiron said previous time, "another category for diplomatic souvenirs". Marcocapelle (talk) 11:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete Once Again George W. Bush, Vladimir Putin, and Mohammed VI of Morocco either traveled to foreign countries or received emissaries from other foreign countries as a routine part of their jobs. Receiving diplomatic souvenirs from dozens of countries is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There are many heads of state or government that travelled to the UAE recently including the presidents of | South Korea and | Brazil, and PMs of | Singapore and | Japan, all of whom did not recieve the order. There are also two non-foreigners who recieved the order, albeit the rulers of two UAE emirates. Vyvagaba (talk) 06:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That does not make any difference for the articles which are in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indo-Europeanists
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Indo-Europeanists

Category:Fictional self-sacrifices
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Fictional self-sacrifices

Category:Suicides in Milan
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep (but bordering on no consensus) (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 19:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Milan to Category:Suicides in Italy
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Belfast to Category:Suicides in Northern Ireland
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Wimbledon to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Kensington to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Islington to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Highgate, Greater London to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Hampstead to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Hammersmith to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Fulham to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Chelsea to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Camden to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Bloomsbury to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Norfolk, England to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Surrey to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in the City of London to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Westminster to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Oxford to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Battersea to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Greater London to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Suicides in Bristol to Category:Suicides in England
 * Propose merging Category:Drug-related deaths in London to Category:Drug-related deaths in England
 * Propose merging Category:Deaths by firearm in London to Category:Deaths by firearm in England
 * Propose merging Category:Deaths by firearm in Islamabad to Category:Deaths by firearm in Pakistan


 * Nominator's rationale: Per trivial cat, we don't categorize deaths by place "Also avoid categorizing people by information associated with a person's death, such as the age at which the person died, the place of the person's death, or by whether the person still had unreleased or unpublished work at the time of their death." Also per WP:OCLOCATION, "The place of death is not normally categorized" Mason The primary category is cause of death (that is then diffused by country). Mason (talk) 01:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom, the place of a hospital or the place of a car accident etc. is often unrelated to someone's life, unless they have been living in that place. But in the latter case they are already in a "People from populated place" category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, as the comparative information the categories generate is really interesting. If the aim is to create a uniform dumbing-down of the present structure, and if there may be a consensus for that, could we please have a comprehensive approach all at once, instead of a nibbling at the edges? For instance, everything in the tree Category:Suicides by city should surely be here. And is Category:Suicide bombings by city outside your line on this, ? Moonraker (talk) 13:17, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't see how you can get much intoformation from the categories as there's huge selection effects. The aim isn't to dumb down the present structure, but to restore it. I appreciate your suggestion of bundling but, I think that this issue boils down to the specific part of a city folks died in, isn't defining. I don't see Suicide bombings by city being on the chopping block as that describes "death" as opposed to individual deaths. Mason (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose I do not see a reason to merge city-level categories to country-level categories. The latter are too big, and need to be subcategorized. Dimadick (talk) 20:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose: Same per Dimadick. Hiddenstranger (talk) 03:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- The items I checked had at least 5 entries, which is more than the usual minimum. Many are for London Boroughs: if these are merged at all it should be to a Greater London category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Suicides in New York City
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Suicides in New York City

Category:Deaths by firearm in New York City
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Deaths by firearm in New York City

Category:Publishers of Doctor Who books
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 19:38, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting publishers of doctor who books
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining, companies in question publish other things besides Doctor Who -- wooden superman  14:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 16:40, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Listify add any missing to Lists of books based on Doctor Who -- 65.92.247.90 (talk) 06:31, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per WP:PERFCAT and WP:OCASSOC. If these were Dr. Who specific imprints, it would be defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 21:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional female businesspeople
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 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus.  bibliomaniac  1  5  06:57, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional female businesspeople to Category:Fictional businesswomen
 * Nominator's rationale: This new page name would be shorter and also consistent with its real-life counterpart Category:Businesswomen. AHI-3000 (talk) 03:12, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per WP:C2C, this could probably have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:30, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Some members may be non-human, but that is hardly a complication for this category's name. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 06:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This was moved in the other direction following Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_20. The major argument was that female is preferable to women for fictional characters because there are non-human characters. The nominator's editing pattern seems to show that they just want fictional categories to be mirrors of non-fiction ones, which is wrong in many cases including this one. Place Clichy (talk) 03:31, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think those category renamings made sense because they were incorrectly using "women" as an adjective instead of a noun. And in the context of fiction, does "woman" even necessarily exclusively refer to female humans? I don't think so. AHI-3000 (talk) 08:15, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose Per above. "Women" may not include female beings who are not human, even though it works for the non-fictional category. I would also support merge to Category:Fictional businesspeople as in this case it is unclear that gender is defining. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Who defined "women" (as far as fictional characters go) as only strictly applying to human characters? Fictional women can be aliens, fairies, goddesses, vampires, etc. AHI-3000 (talk) 05:11, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * From woman: "A woman is an adult female human". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not necessarily the same in fiction. Female non-human humanoid characters can be referred to as "women" as well. AHI-3000 (talk) 23:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Zxcvbnm's explanation. Dimadick (talk) 07:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This category is about fictional women rather than real women. There's no reason why "women" cannot be inclusive to non-human fictional characters. AHI-3000 (talk) 23:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Merging to Category:Fictional businesspeople, per Zxcvbnm, per WP:OCEGRS, is also a good idea. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you change your vote, or are you still in favor of renaming? AHI-3000 (talk) 04:16, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good question. Merging to Category:Fictional businesspeople per WP:EGRS, is my first choice, rename per WP:C2C is my second choice. Merging to Category:Fictional businesspeople per WP:EGRS has the additional advantage that it completely bypasses the apparent lack of consensus on "female" versus "women". (By the way in that discussion I still think businesswomen is fine because if characters are humanoid enough to have a human occupation then they should also be humanoid enough to have a human gender.) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I just don't get this weird semantic argument over the definition of "women" as applied to female characters in fiction. Non-human humanoid characters are often still referred to as men or women. AHI-3000 (talk) 20:50, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Deaths in Caracas
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 22:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting deaths in caracas
 * Nominator's rationale: Deaths within a city is not defining Mason (talk) 00:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:TRIVIALCAT, place of death may be the place of a hospital or place of car accident etc. unrelated to a person's life. If they lived in Caracas they are in Category:People from Caracas anyway. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)}
 * Keep per WP:CATDEF, a person's place of death is just as defining as its birth place. Plenty of people die in cities without living or having been born in them, and there are several categories that follow this pattern (Category:Deaths in Hong Kong, Category:Deaths in Islamabad, Category:Deaths in Paris, Category:Deaths by person and city, among others). --NoonIcarus (talk) 13:44, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Those can be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @NoonIcarus. Please read trivial cat because it explicitly says that "Also avoid categorizing people by information associated with a person's death, such as the age at which the person died, the place of the person's death, or by whether the person still had unreleased or unpublished work at the time of their death." Mason (talk) 00:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete non defining (t &#183; c)  buidhe  07:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Serer jurists
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:08, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Serer jurists to Category:Serer people
 * Propose merging Category:Serer judges to Category:Serer people
 * Propose merging Category:Serer lawyers to Category:Serer people
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS and WP:NARROWCAT. All three distinct members (Doudou Diène, Alhaji Bai Modi Joof, and Laïty Kama) are already in other subcategories by nationality and occupation. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 18:00, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Mason (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Probably more occupations can follow. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Per WP:EGRS and WP:BLPCAT, the case for ethnicity categories must be made clear in the article and its reliable sources. The last name is not sufficient. The first article makes no mention of Serer background in article text, while the other two mention it but it is not supported by sources. Merge as second-best option. Place Clichy (talk) 23:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Place Clichy makes a case for first purging before merging. I am totally fine with that. If the result is that there is nothing left to merge, so be it. Marcocapelle (talk) 01:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional centaurs
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 01:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional centaurs to Category:Fictional human–animal hybrids
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT, as there are almost no articles in the category that are not redirects. They would be dual merged into Category:Centaurs with the exception of Centaurs in popular culture, which would only be merged into Category:Centaurs. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 17:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Just as with harpies, above, specificity is good in this area.  People looking for fictional centaurs should be able to distinguish them easily from other fictional creatures—it makes no sense to have a single category for centaurs, harpies, werewolves, Snagglepuss, etc., where you have to click on each article to find out what kind of creature it represents.  This is a decently-sized category, and I don't think that it matters whether the entries redirect to the books or other media in which they appear—they still lead readers to the exact subject they're looking for.  It'd be a lot harder to locate that if merged with other categories that also contain redirects.
 * Imagine being redirected to The Last Unicorn because it contains a harpy, when you're looking for centaurs, and having to scan or search the contents of the page just to figure out whether a centaur is mentioned—and possibly wondering whether there might be a centaur in the novel that isn't mentioned in the plot summary! I see no benefit to lumping all of these creatures together, and some distinct disadvantages.  P Aculeius (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Support per nom. What centaurs aren't fictional? Mason (talk) 19:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * We count centaurs from Greek mythology separately from this category, which is for modern works of fiction. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose. per Aculeius' explanation. Dimadick (talk) 07:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 'Oppose as per Aculeius.-- Redtigerxyz Talk 17:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional harpies
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 01:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional harpies to Category:Fictional human–animal hybrids
 * Nominator's rationale: Created by blocked sock. WP:SMALLCAT that is unnecessarily specific. Entries can be dual merged to Category:Cultural depictions of Harpies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:24, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I don't think anybody would think to look for fictional harpies under "fictional animal–human hybrids", which may have its own justifications as a title, but which just doesn't seem like a likely category to search under.  Specificity is good here; if someone wants to find other examples of harpies in fiction, they shouldn't have to wade through dozens of listings of other types of creatures, hoping to find the few that are harpies.  The category seems large enough to justify its existence, and has potential for expansion.  This goes for "fictional centaurs" too—even more so, as that's a much larger category.  P Aculeius (talk) 15:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Support per nom. Specificity isn't helpful as they're all also in Harpies already... Mason (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose. per Aculeius' explanation. Dimadick (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fiction about otherworld
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fiction by setting. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fiction about otherworld to Category:Parallel universes in fiction
 * Nominator's rationale: There seems to be an overlap here, with one generally encompassing the other. I am not really convinced this category was required. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:56, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Fiction by setting. There is an important distinction between afterlife and parallel universes. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 16:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, Category:Fiction about the afterlife also exists as well... ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Move subcategories to Category:Fiction by setting and delete this one, per LaundryPizza03, they are very different topics. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I do not get your point. What does the existence of Category:Fiction about the afterlife tell us about the distinction between afterlife and parallel universes. I'd say nothing. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-Austrian military personnel in Austrian armies
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 12%23Category:Non-Austrian military personnel in Austrian armies

Category:Massacres committed by anarchists
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Massacres committed by anarchists

Works set in outer space
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Works set in outer space

Category:Black composers
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. There was no substantiative rationale for keeping. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting black composers
 * Propose deleting black conductors
 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:ETHNICRACECAT, we do not categorize people by skin color. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per the precedents regarding Category:Black people. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 13:33, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Question. Would of "Composers of African descent" work as a rename to change the scope slightly? I'm thinking of this page (List of composers of African descent ). Mason (talk) 19:10, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Some may be Africans themselves rather than of descent, some may be from Oceania. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a big difference between "delete" and "rename". I am not fighting for any particular revised name, but I think the category is worth keeping. Pete unseth (talk) 22:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge. I agree with Pete on this. We may need to purge the handful of folks from Melanesia.Mason (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:10, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:ETHNICRACECAT. Re: renaming, there is definitely scope for conductors, composers and musicians of specific ethnicities such as, and there should be categories for them when they are valid under WP:EGRS/I. However, I don't think there's a single ethnicity, or music style for that matter, which groups together African Americans, Papuans and Indo-Mauritians, to take a few notable ethnic groups associated with dark complexion. Place Clichy (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works set on the moon
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Works set on the moon

Category:Cyber Security by country
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20%23Category:Cyber Security by country

Category:Fictional brands
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional brands to Category:Fictional companies
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OVERLAPCAT. Target already contains all articles except Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and Products produced from The Simpsons. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 20:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Just delete, the two articles do not seem to fit the target. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge, as creator. This was created almost two decades ago when the structure was not as robust. The suggested target covers what is needed here.--Mike Selinker (talk) 02:11, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge or delete redundant. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional executions by method
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/merge (not to Category:Hanging in fiction). (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:34, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:Fictional executions by method
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional people executed by decapitation to Category:Fictional executed characters
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional people executed by hanging to Category:Fictional executed characters and Category:Hanging in fiction
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:TRIVIALCAT: Method of execution is arbitrary in fiction and may include methods that do not exist in real life, such as by black hole. Category:Fictional executed characters is fairly small, too. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 21:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose all proposals. And why not nominate Category:Fictional executed people by crime as well? AHI-3000 (talk) 21:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I hadn't considered that, since I wasn't as sure. Did you mean Category:Fictional executed people by crime? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 21:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "may include methods that do not exist in real life": categories about fictional events are not prohibited. Apokrif (talk) 21:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that; what I should have said is that the method of execution is usually plot-irrelevant. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 21:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support all but the merge to Category:Hanging in fiction, which is meant for fictional works, not characters. I support this per nom as the low-hanging fruit solution, although I have been mulling over whether Category:Fictional dead characters or any of its subcategories can even be defining. After all, a defining trait is how the character is known while they are active in the plot. When a character is dead, it turns into an element of the story itself. Besides undead and ghosts, a dead character can't interact with others. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "Category:Hanging in fiction, which is meant for fictional works, not characters": the category name does not say so. Apokrif (talk) 12:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Currently the name goes against WP:NONDEF. If it was renamed to the correct name of Category:Fiction about hangings, then it would definitely encompass only works. Though arguably it would be better off at Category:Fiction about capital punishment as it's currently a fairly specific category, perhaps too specific. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Just to be clear I still oppose any deletion or merging of any nominated categories. I do not support this weird obsession with destroying categories just because they're too small. AHI-3000 (talk) 05:22, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Just oppose Category:Hanging in fiction as a merge target, per Zxcvbnm, as an extension of WP:COPSEP to fictional characters. I am not opposing merging as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Ungulates
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename the "prehistoric" categories; no consensus on the rest. WP:NPASR. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 19:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional even-toed ungulates to Category:Fictional artiodactyls
 * Propose renaming Category:Films about even-toed ungulates to Category:Films about Artiodactyla
 * Propose renaming Category:Individual even-toed ungulates to Category:Individual artiodactyls
 * Propose renaming Category:Prehistoric even-toed ungulates to Category:Prehistoric Artiodactyla
 * Propose renaming Category:Television episodes about even-toed ungulates to Category:Television episodes about Artiodactyla
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional odd-toed ungulates to Category:Fictional perissodactyls
 * Propose renaming Category:Films about odd-toed ungulates to Category:Films about Perissodactyla
 * Propose renaming Category:Individual odd-toed ungulates to Category:Individual perissodactyls
 * Propose renaming Category:Prehistoric odd-toed ungulates to Category:Prehistoric Perissodactyla
 * Nominator's rationale: Main categories were renamed back in Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_19 and Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 19, respectively. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support rename of the "prehistoric" categories - which, to a complete and utter lack of shock on my part, are the only ones not created recently or by a blocked sock, but delete the rest. They seem like textbook WP:NARROWCAT - people can just navigate into subcategories to find these, nobody's going to specifically care about whether a film is about a _insert unpronounceable name here_. I'm even dubious about whether the move was sound in the first place due to WP:COMMONNAME guidelines being violated, but even if it goes back to ungulates it still makes little to no sense. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Frozen conflict zones
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. There is a lot of discussion, but I will note that the creator has not convinced anyone to support keeping the category. Consensus is not a vote, but our essay about WP:SUPERVOTEing rightly points out that an XfD discussion is not an "admin's suggestion box". Thinking this category runs afoul of WP:DEFINING is a valid opinion, and getting even a "no consensus" result out of this 5–1 discussion would require the five to have egregiously terrible rationales. Thus, there is consensus to delete. (non-admin closure) <b style="font-family:Courier New;">House Blaster </b>talk 20:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting frozen conflict zones
 * Nominator's rationale: What is a "frozen conflict zone"? Is this an invented label, or something that's subjective and redundant with other categories such as Category:States with limited recognition? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep – Frozen conflicts are a thing verily recognised in reliable sources, to the point where we have an article on them. The article itself lists a number of zones where frozen conflicts apply, all supported by reliable sourcing. It is unrelated to the article OP suggests, as there are states with complete recognition that are frozen conflict zones, and there are states with limited recognition that are not frozen conflict zones. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 22:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, as a characteristic that is temporary by nature (even if it lasts long). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Why would its nature of being temporary necessitate deletion? Surely if it ceases to fit into the category we simply remove the category? — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 22:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * When it is temporary, it is not defining. It is a matter of recentism. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Some of the locations within this category have been frozen for decades - in some instances as many as 70 years. It's hard to argue this is a case of recentism. Additionally some of the locations are strongly defined by the fact they are FCZs or have been created as a result of frozen conflicts. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 14:23, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That just confirms my "even if it lasts long". There have probably been numerous conflicts in the past that seemed frozen but where ultimately there was a breakthrough, that will happen with the conflicts in this category too. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Then the category is removed from that article. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 09:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If it would have been a defining characteristic it wouldn't have to be removed. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think I've ever seen a rule stating that something that might one day change means it can't be defining, especially when we're talking about political situations that have remained unchanged for decades. Also, the fact that it could change is speculative/WP:OR; when we have unchanged political situations for, in some cases, as many as 70 years, it's difficult to argue it's not defining. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 14:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete While the concept is notable, which situations qualify is subjective. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * All the situations are supported by sourcing, either at frozen conflict or in their individual articles. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 16:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The sourcing is really about having reputable people with the opinion of it being a frozen conflict. Others may see it as a the new normal, or diplomatic nicety. Having sources for competing opinions is great for the article space where nuance can be captured while maintaining WP:NPOV but not for the binary category space. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin Sorry if this appears pushy, but I feel it's worthing highlighting that, as consensus is not decided by majority vote, that the the delete arguments have been addressed and rebutted with no further response.
 * — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 23:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I provided a reply, sorry for the delay. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:43, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete besides the other delete reasons, I found verifiability issues in both entries that I checked. For example, Czello added the category to Nagorno-Karabakh but there is no content in the article (sourced or otherwise) that supports the description. Ditto with South Korea. WP:DEFINING is also unclear. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  04:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * These additions were from frozen conflict, but if there are issues with sourcing then surely the correct solution is simply remove the category. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 15:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Since categories don't have citations, they need to be verified and sourced in the article. Please esure to follow WP:CATV in the future when adding categories to any article. Since categorization is supposed to be defining, if it's not in the article at all that's a sign the category should not exist. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Many of them are sourced in the articles (for example, Abkhazia). Any that aren't can easily be removed. That's not a valid reason for deletion. — <i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i> (<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>) 20:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. The main article Frozen conflict defines this more as a tactic of conflict and geopolitical influence on third countries, mostly specific to Russia and around it, rather than a type of conflict. There are many conflicts in history with stalled for a long time without much actual fighting, such as the Siege of Candia, Alsace-Lorraine, the Cold War, the Pale of Calais or Gibraltar. They are not much different from the selection here, especially the presence of South Korea in the list, either by the frozen or conflict character. However, they would not belong in the category, because its scope is peculiar and subjective. Place Clichy (talk) 04:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:4-polytope stubs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 22:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 4-polytope stubs
 * Nominator's rationale: Stub category with under 50 stubs, upmerge to . Andumé (talk) 23:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. 43 is not especially small for a category. Upmerging would put the parent geometry stub category perilously close to 200 (at which point it becomes more difficult to use because not everything visible on one page) and overwhelm the much more general parent stub topic with stubs in a very specific subtopic. —David Eppstein (talk) 08:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Stub sorting policy is that stub categories with less than 50 articles should usually be deleted (see WP:WSS/ST). Also, 200 articles is not very large for a stub category. Stub categories are usually only marked as excessively large at 800 articles. Andumé (talk) 17:26, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I personally agree with David Eppstein, but that is not what wider community consensus has decided (c.f. WP:LOCALCONSENSUS). HouseBlastertalk 22:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Television episodes directed by cast member
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 23:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting television episodes directed by cast member
 * Nominator's rationale: Badly-named category for a non-defining characteristic. Television episodes are not defined by the matter of whether they were directed by a cast member of the series or not -- and, for added bonus, the majority of the content here is redirects to episode lists, not standalone articles about episodes, so they mostly fail to contextualize any possible claims of unusual significance. Essentially this is just trivia, not a thing that unifies these episodes into a special class of thing that gets discussed or analyzed as a group on this basis. And even if it were to be kept for some reason, this wouldn't be its correct name, so it would have to be renamed anyway. Bearcat (talk) 20:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep.
 * Badly-named category - I completely disagree, it adequately and clearly identifies what the contents are about.
 * Television episodes are not defined by the matter of whether they were directed by a cast member of the series or not - actually, they are. If you'd look at the draft that I'm working on (User:Gonnym/sandbox/episodes/cast; one of the only pages linked to the category) you'd see 23 references so far that talk about television episodes that are directed by one of the cast members of the show. That clearly established two things, the first that it is a defining characteristic, and the second, that the subject itself is notable. References:
 * the majority of the content here is redirects to episode lists, not standalone articles about episodes so what? Any researcher who'd like to use Wikipedia to research the subject of episodes directed by actors of the series, will want the data, regardless of it this is a redirect or a stand-alone article.
 * and even if it were to be kept for some reason, this wouldn't be its correct name, so it would have to be renamed anyway - that is your opinion, please do not present it as fact. I completely disagree with it.
 * Since the above nomination is based on poorly presented opinions and incorrect statements, I can only see a WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument here. Gonnym (talk) 22:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I don't give a flying honk what you do or don't "disagree" with about the category's name, because Wikipedia's standard naming conventions, and basic grammar, both disagree with you. A properly named category would, firstly, require the plural "cast members", not the singular "cast member", and it would require "cast members of something", not just "cast members the end". I am quite simply correct about this, and I am not debating you on that point: cast members, in the plural, of something, very extremely end of discussion on that.
 * Secondly, it isn't a question of whether you can find sources discussing the actors as a group — this isn't a category for the actor/directors, it's a category for the episodes, and you haven't shown sources discussing the episodes as a group. Bearcat (talk) 00:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:TRIVIALCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 00:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete per Bearcat. Mason (talk) 04:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.