Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 14

 &lt; October 13 October 15 &gt;

Category:Turkic slaves
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Turkic slaves

Category:Cultural properties designated by the prefecture
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Cultural properties designated by the prefecture

Category:Indigenous people in German South West Africa
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Indigenous people in German South West Africa

Category:German people in German East Africa
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:German people in German East Africa

Category:Simon of Glaisdale family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  09:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting simon of glaisdale family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 21:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Glinka family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Mason (talk) 18:43, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting glinka family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you show me the rule that say: categories with less than 3 items should be deleted? Marcelus (talk) 20:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * SMALLCAT combined with the fact that when you have two people, it seems like an overcategorization because you can just link them on the page. I think that @Marcocapelle described the core of the issue in this quote "Wow, what a massive amount of overcategorization. Especially with few articles per family, all articles will link to each other directly (unless a very distant relationship) and a category does not add anything." The quotes from another larger bundle of family categories Mason (talk) 21:07, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I definitely wasn't me. And SMALLCAT doesn't say anything about items treshold, also it clearly says: Note also that this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth; Russian equivalent of the category has 20 items, Polish 6, so there is a clearly room for growth. And the category is actually quite useful because this family had two branches: Polish and Russian, both were quite significant. Marcelus (talk) 21:15, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * (apologies about the ping, I saw the first few letters and thought oh how convenient it found Marcocapelle without them needing to be in the conversation) Mason (talk) 21:30, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you expand upon what you mean by "Russian equivalent of the category has 20 items, Polish 6"? Are their supposed to be child categories? And yes, I know that small cat has the "realistic potential " piece Mason (talk) 21:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Check interlanguage wikilinks. Since you know about it, why you keep insisting on deleting the cat? Marcelus (talk) 21:34, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying about the interlanguage wiki, it didn't occur to me to look there. Regardless, I don't know why you're characterizing this conversation as me "insisting on deleting the cat". I'm asking questions to try to understand what you mean. I was also digging a little deeper to see if there were more potential pages to add. Because if there is a realistic potential for growth, I'd be happy to withdraw the nom. Mason (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What I've done is temporarily added all the linked categories from the polish and russian categories. I'm trying to now go through to determine if they are actually related to the family category in question.  Mason (talk) 22:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * FYI: there is no indication that Elizaveta Glinka belongs to the noble family of Glinka, I think it's just a similarity of surnames Marcelus (talk) 22:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That was my conclusion as well. She's in the Russian language category. And I think that illustrates a challenging point, that we can't really use the non-english language categories as showing "clearly room for growth". Mason (talk) 22:08, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I also don't see any evidence for Dmitry Glinka (diplomat), leaving us with 3 people and a category. Mason (talk) 22:11, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No, Dmitry was part of the Russian branch of the Glinka family; I just found an article about Konstantin Glinka which says: He came from the great and widespread historical Glinka family, which included many famous scholars and people and the arts. Among them are: M. Glinka - composer, G. Glinka - slavophile, S. Glinka - professor of mineralogy at Moscow University, D. Glinka - philosopher and diplomat, and several writers and scientists who left their marks in literature and science Marcelus (talk) 09:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm glad that you've found some evidence since I looked at the category, but at the time I wrote that statement, there wasn't any in the article. Mason (talk) 16:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's reasonable to use them as indication. Can you please re-add category to Dmitry Glinka (diplomat) (I provided a source in the article). Marcelus (talk) 09:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, it's an weak indicator, but I don't think that it shows "clearly room for growth". I've added back Dmitry Glinka (diplomat) . This exchange has resulted in a much more populated category. However, I'd encourage you to rethink how combative your approach is. I approached this exchange in good faith, tried to see your perspective, asking you questions, etc. However, I don't feel as if you accorded me that same courtesy. Mason (talk) 16:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I am very sorry that you felt this way. My feeling is completely the opposite, I think that our exchange of views was very fruitful for both sides, and also for the wiki because it resulted in better category content. Marcelus (talk) 16:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm glad that you feel respected, as that was what I was trying to do. I agree that the category is better for it. However, if you look at our exchange, you made a lot of uncharitable interpretations and you've continued to do so. Mason (talk) 02:33, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, you really need to be more specific than that at this point. Marcelus (talk) 08:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:British Burma

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:British rule in Burma. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:British Burma to Category:British rule in Burma
 * Nominator's rationale: These seem to be extremely overlapping to me. Mason (talk) 20:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom, per British rule in Burma. Place Clichy (talk) 01:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LGBT people from Somalia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Somalian LGBT people. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:LGBT people from Somalia to Category:Somalian LGBT people
 * Nominator's rationale: Duplicate Mason (talk) 20:10, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, very obvious duplicate. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:40, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Writers from Nepal
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Writers from Nepal

Category:Noble families in the British Isles
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Noble families in the British Isles

Category:Military families of Serbia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: dual merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  09:30, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose splitting dual merge Category:Military families of Serbia to Category:Military families and Category:Serbian families
 * Nominator's rationale: only one family in this category Mason (talk) 18:35, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Dual merge (not split) per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * (my apologies for using split. I'm using twinkle and that was the easiest way to add two categories) Mason (talk) 19:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dobbs family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting dobbs family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ): no corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Teglev family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting teglev family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ): a corresponding eponymous article about the family and one family member Mason (talk) 18:15, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Irons family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting irons family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lanigan-O'Keeffe family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting lanigan-o'keeffe family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:12, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tremayne family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting tremayne family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tilney family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting tilney family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Stradling family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting stradling family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:03, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bramall family

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting bramall family
 * Nominator's rationale: Small cat (n<3 ) without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 18:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Restaurants serving Eastern European cuisine
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Restaurants serving Eastern European cuisine

Category:Restaurants serving Chinese cuisine
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Restaurants serving Chinese cuisine

Category:9th-century Frankish saints

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 9th-century frankish saints
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not necessary because the subcategory is already in the tree of Category:People from the Carolingian Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete as redundant per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Expatriates from the Dutch Republic in the Dutch East Indies

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: selectively upmerge. to Category:Dutch people of the Dutch East Indies  (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  09:36, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Expatriates from the Dutch Republic in the Dutch East Indies to Category:Dutch expatriates in the Dutch East Indies
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERLAPCAT. Overlapping categories here. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:48, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: Category:Dutch expatriates in the Dutch East Indies has been renamed to its former name Category:Dutch people of the Dutch East Indies. --NFSreloaded (talk) 18:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support, but just move Jacobus Bontius to Category:Dutch people of the Dutch East Indies, then delete the category, because the other three articles are already in Category:Governors-General of the Dutch East Indies. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment There are other existing categories in the parent category Category:Expatriates from the Dutch Republic, is there a reason why this one was singled out? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:17, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the Dutch... in... Dutch part would be a reason to question if an expatriate category is worth at all, a question which does not apply to all other categories. Also, it seems that the rate at which these categories are created is just higher that the rate at which we manage to discuss them (by that I mean hand-picked past political regimes). Place Clichy (talk) 01:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * , What @Place Clichy is delicately alluding to is that the creator of the categories @Johnpacklambert can't or won't engage with the issue. They just keep creating more categories that have the same problem of small underpopulated categories that intersect with regime with occupation and nationality. Mason (talk) 18:49, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Selectively upmerge to Category:Dutch people of the Dutch East Indies and delete per Marcocapelle. The title of this category is the best descriptor for these people. Place Clichy (talk) 01:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:9th-century Frankish writers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Writers from the Carolingian Empire. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:9th-century Frankish writers to Category:Writers from the Carolingian Empire
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, overlapping categories, the Carolingian Empire is usually counted from 800 to 888. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:48, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Science centers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Relisting comment: No consensus yet on the naming convention for the merged categories. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 03:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated i.e. merge to the "Science museums" categories. There is consensus for this option over the "Science centres and museums" option, on the basis that it is simpler, that Category:Science museums by country contains more categories that would be made inconsistent by the proposed alt rename, and because there would be little benefit with the alt. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Science centers to Category:Science museums
 * Propose merging Category:Science centres in India to Category:Science museums in India
 * Propose merging Category:Science centres in the United Kingdom to Category:Science museums in the United Kingdom
 * Propose merging Category:Science centres in England to Category:Science museums in England
 * Propose merging Category:Science centres in Northern Ireland to Category:Science museums in Northern Ireland
 * Propose merging Category:Science centers in Scotland to Category:Science museums in Scotland
 * Propose merging Category:Science centres in Wales to Category:Science museums in Wales
 * Propose merging Category:Science centers in Taiwan to Category:Science museums in Taiwan
 * Nominator's rationale: The difference between a science "center" and a science "museum", while technically hinging on whether it presents science in a "hands-on" experiential or "hands-off" exhibitional manner, isn't always clearcut or unambiguous — even a thing that calls itself a "museum" instead of a "center" can still include at least some "hands-on" content, for example — with the result that individual institutions are frequently categorized as being both things at the same time, or only as a "museum" when "center" would also be warranted. Ultimately, the distinction really has less to do with museums and centers being different things, and more to do with some institutions branding themselves with a different word than other institutions do — but at the very least, it isn't a consistently clear-cut difference that can be reliably categorized for without dispute or debate. We could potentially also consider renaming the target category to encompass both terms, but it's not at all clear that we would need two separate category trees when even the real world doesn't consistently uphold a clear and unequivocal distinction, and even the mainspace title science center itself is just a redirect to science museum rather than its own separate article. Note that any upmerging of the contents should be done in a selective and partial manual fashion, as many (though not necessarily all) of the individual entries are already in an appropriate "Science museums in [Country]" subcategory, and thus should just have the "centers" category removed rather than being duplicate categorized into the parent. Bearcat (talk) 15:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. What if we renamed them to "Science centers and museums"? Mason (talk) 16:58, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That would be fine. I have no strong preference as to whether it should be "centers and museums" or "museums and centers", but I did suggest renaming the target categories as an option — however, either way, I would note that WP:ENGVAR demands "centres" rather than "centers" for the UK and India, although I don't know whether British-English "centre" or American-English "center" would be more consistent with our practices when it comes to Taiwan. And if we do go ahead with renaming, that would also have to encompass the "Science museums in Country" categories that aren't under discussion here because those countries never had a parallel "centers/centres" category created. Bearcat (talk) 13:18, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Good points. (Sorry I missed the rename suggestion in the text). I think the merge and rename to the broader museum + center/re is worthwhile, especially given the fuzziness. I'm ok with also broadening the parent category to museum + center/re. (I don't care about the ordering; so I'd love if someone did have opinions on that. Mason (talk) 02:35, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, since (presumably), all science centres/ers are museums, but not all museums are science centres/ers, I think "museums" should be first. Also, if "science" isn't a clear adjective for museums, all museums would be added. So rename/merge to Category:Science museums and centers. (retaining -ers per ENGVAR. The subcats will vary by local usage, per normal.) - jc37 13:01, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, start with the general term first and then the narrower term second. Bearcat (talk) 11:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Tagging the "science museums" categories that were listed as targets and are now proposed for renaming. Note that these are only a small subset of Category:Science museums or Category:Science museums by country. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:18, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge as nominated (simplest solution) or else to "museums and centers" (having "museums" first, per Jc37). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge. I created these categories, but I think the proposed solution makes more sense in hindsight.--KaraLG84 (talk) 11:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums to Category:Science museums and centers
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in India to Category:Science museums and centres in India
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in the United Kingdom to Category:Science museums and centres in the United Kingdom
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in England to Category:Science museums and centres in England
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in Northern Ireland to Category:Science museums and centres in Northern Ireland
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in Scotland to Category:Science museums and centres in Scotland
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in Wales to Category:Science museums and centres in Wales
 * Propose renaming Category:Science museums in Taiwan to Category:Science museums and centers in Taiwan
 * Listed as procedural additions to nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:34, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per original nomination. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:07, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to re-affirm from my comments above - Rename/Merge to Category:Science museums and centers. Retaining -ers per ENGVAR. The subcats will vary by local usage, per normal, as noted by Fayenatic london, above. - jc37 15:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Manual merge per original nomination, as the distinction is soft, and all science centres are science museums. There is a List of science centers which is sufficient for navigation of science centres; I have added "See also List of science centers" to all the pages currently categorised as such. As for Category:Space-related tourist attractions, it should only have "see also" links (which I just added) rather than being a subcat. Redirect Category:Science centers. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per original nomination (i.e., centers->museums; do not rename anything). I will not repeat the sound arguments above for why the status quo is undesirable. However, I disagree that these need to be renamed. All centers are museums; we would be sacrificing brevity for no gain in accuracy. HouseBlastertalk 16:55, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Pompeii (ancient city)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:People from Pompeii. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:People from Pompeii (ancient city) to Category:People from Pompeii
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary disambiguation — the modern equivalent Category:People from Pompei is spelled differently, and Category:Pompeii (Romans) is about a family, the Pompeia gens. Only disambiguated category name related to the ancient Pompeii, apart from the parent Category:Pompeii (ancient city). –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 06:29, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. Unnecessary disambiguation: it seems perfectly clear that "people from Pompeii" refers to a place.  Even though "Pompeii" by itself could mean more than one thing, other uses would not be worded like this.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting that other uses of "Pompeii" are inappropriate for article or category names, or that unlike this category, they require disambiguation; merely that in this instance there is no ambiguity.  P Aculeius (talk) 07:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 14:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Painters from the Republic of Venice
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:Painters from the Republic of Venice

Category:9th-century German women
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:9th-century women from East Francia. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:9th-century German women to Category:9th-century women from East Francia
 * Nominator's rationale: rename, East Francia is how it was called in the 9th century, one of the parent categories is correctly Category:9th-century people from East Francia. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:14, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * It occurs to me, it would be useful to leave a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:27, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tenochca military leaders
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete without prejudice against recreation if it can be populated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:28, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting tenochca military leaders
 * Nominator's rationale: delete for now, currently only one article and it is questionable whether it belongs here. We apparently just know that the subject died in battle. The article is already in Category:Tenochca nobility so there is no reason to merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:03, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 17:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American serial killers by state
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:American serial killers by state

Category:French people in French Algeria
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  09:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:French people in French Algeria to Category:French people of colonial Algeria
 * Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 01:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, obvious duplicate. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from the New Kingdom of Granada
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 22%23Category:People from the New Kingdom of Granada

Category:Mthethwa people
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Mthethwa. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mthethwa people to Category:Mthethwa
 * Nominator's rationale: 1 page Mason (talk) 01:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:43, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from the Khanate of Khiva
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: dual merge to Category:Khanate of Khiva and Category:People from Khwarazm. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:20, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose splitting Category:People from the Khanate of Khiva to Category:Khanate of Khiva and Category:People from Khwarazm
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary layer with 1 sub-category, duel merge Mason (talk) 01:21, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Egbaland
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Egba people. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Egbaland to Category:Egba people
 * Nominator's rationale: underpopulated, overlapping category Mason (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:51, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Armenian Oriental Orthodox Christians
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Armenian Apostolic Christians. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 20:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Armenian Oriental Orthodox Christians to Category:Armenian Apostolic Christians
 * Nominator's rationale: Although I guess it would be theoretically possible for an Armenian national to be a member of a different Oriental Orthodox church, in practice everyone in this category is a member of the Armenian Apostolic Church. I don't believe that other Oriental Orthodox churches even operate in Armenia. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Note that this is a downmerge, this should be implemented manually in order to preserve the proper parenting. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.