Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7

 &lt; October 6 October 8 &gt;

Category:Albanians from the Ottoman Empire

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename/merge as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Albanians from the Ottoman Empire to Category:Albanian people from the Ottoman Empire
 * Propose merging Category:Albanian people in the Ottoman Empire to Category:Albanian people from the Ottoman Empire
 * Propose merging Category:Albanians in the Ottoman Empire to Category:Albanian people from the Ottoman Empire
 * Nominator's rationale: Standard is FOOIAN people, not FOOIANS, in addition, the two child categories are overlapping Mason (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename/merge as nom. Other redundant creations by JPL. Place Clichy (talk) 22:02, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, but it is three times rename, right? (No merging.) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The target for the 3 categories is the same, and I would say that merging them is a good idea. I would assume that the creation of 3 so closely-named categories is accidental in the first place. Do you wish to keep 3 separate categories? What would be their difference in scope? Place Clichy (talk) 08:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ≤ Of course, how can I have overseen that yesterday. I do not have a clue how the three categories are intended to be different. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Assyrian/Syriac Palestinians
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:Assyrian/Syriac Palestinians

Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priests

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging to
 * Propose deleting bougainvillean christians
 * Propose deleting bougainvillean people by religion
 * Propose merging to
 * Propose deleting bougainvillean christian clergy
 * Propose deleting bougainvillean christian religious leaders
 * Propose deleting bougainvillean clergy
 * Nominator's rationale: The only content of this long string of empty categories is, which contains two articles. This hurts more than it helps in terms of navigation. My proposal is to merge to the nearest non-empty parent in every direction. Place Clichy (talk) 20:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Seems reasonable. Mason (talk) 21:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge/delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Companies of insular areas of the United States by city
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:Companies of insular areas of the United States by city

Category:Universities and colleges in insular areas of the United States by city

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Edward-Woodrow  •  talk  12:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Universities and colleges in insular areas of the United States by city to Category:Universities and colleges in the United States by populated place Category:Universities and colleges in the United States by state and populated place (being speedy renamed to Category:Universities and colleges in the United States by state or territory and populated place)
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary layer. –Aidan721 (talk) 20:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Revised the nomination. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:25, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose as is. The merge target should be . Alternatively, this category should be itself renamed, per parent . It is not helpful to have Puerto Rico, Guam, Washington D.C. etc. placed at the root of United States categories when they should be in a geographical diffusion category, and we face the perennial problem of pernickety editors removing them from by state categories. Place Clichy (talk) 21:10, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've nominated your proposed target for speedy renaming and revised the nomination accordingly. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The existing "Universities and colleges in insular areas of the United States by city" best (i.e., most uniquely) represents the contents of the category in question. The territories are a separate body politic from the "United States" proper and the name of the category should reflect that. Universities and colleges native to those areas are not institutions IN the United States (as the proposed "Universities and colleges  IN  the United States by state or territory and populated place" would suggest) because those areas are not IN the United States. For an area to be IN the United States it needs to be in one of the 50 states or DC, and the territories of the United States are not in any of those 51 areas. There's good information about this HERE. Mercy11 (talk) 22:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Right of foreigners to vote

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Non-citizen suffrage. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 00:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Right of foreigners to vote to Category:Non-citizen suffrage
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename category to match the parent article, Non-citizen suffrage. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 20:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename as nom. Place Clichy (talk) 21:01, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per WP:C2D. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:29, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 05:24, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico by city

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico. No consensus to merge to Category:Festivals in the United States by populated place. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 15:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico by city to Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico and Category:Festivals in the United States by city
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT. Many unnecessary layers. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose merging Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico by city to Category:Festivals in the United States by city.
 * Puerto Rico is, by definition, not IN the United States, therefore the merging of Puerto Rico festivals with United States festivals would incorrectly depict Puerto Rico as being IN the United States. If Puerto Rico is not IN the United States (which it is not) then a festival in Puerto Rico could not possibly be a festival IN the United States either. Only festivals in the 50 states and DC can be categorized as festivals in the United States. Mercy11 (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support merging Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico by city to Category:Festivals in Puerto Rico. Mercy11 (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Festivals in insular areas of the United States by city

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 15:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting festivals in insular areas of the united states by city
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT. Unnecessary layers. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge/delete as nom. If there is no by state category at the same level, no need for this layer. Place Clichy (talk) 21:02, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support deleting Category:Festivals in insular areas of the United States by city per nomination. Mercy11 (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tanzanian physicians
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Tanzanian medical doctors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WT:XFDC (non-admin closure)  Edward-Woodrow  •  talk  12:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Tanzanian physicians to Category:Tanzanian medical doctors
 * Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 19:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, keeping a redirect. Clear duplicate. The older category is better populated, and as Tanzania is a former British colony I guess that British English works better. Place Clichy (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge without a redirect, per nom. Both names begin with the same string, so it is unlikely a redirect is needed. HouseBlastertalk 00:06, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Participants in John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 15:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Participants in John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry to Category:John Brown's raiders
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per WP:C2D, the article is at John Brown's raiders. This was opposed for speedy. If this nomination leads to an RM in order to move the article, by all means follow the outcome of the RM. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:Participants in John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry to Category:John Brown's raiders – C2D: To match name of article which details the participants. User:Namiba 13:12, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose speedy. This sounds clucky and doesn't make it clearer that this is about the raid on harper's ferry Mason (talk) 21:01, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * pinging participants in speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I don't think the proposed category title is informative without the Harper's Ferry context. Mason (talk) 19:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Mason, Mason, per below, a name change can be proposed once the article and category match.--User:Namiba 13:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support to match article. I'd support moving the article, but that's a discussion for a different place. C LYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 04:49, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parthians
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parthians
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category while Category:Parthia and Category:Parthian Empire already exist. The only article is in all three categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:Parthians to Category:Iranian people – C2F. Mason (talk) 02:59, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, the single article in the category is about a region, it does not belong in Category:Iranian people. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to support an alternative redirect. Mason (talk) 21:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * pinging initiator of speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:44, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. per nom Mason (talk) 19:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedians experiencing stress
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting wikipedians experiencing stress
 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:USERCAT for lacking any discernible collaborative function, compare Categories for discussion/User/Archive/July 2007. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 16:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Notified User:67.163.114.70, who added this cat to User stress (I just created it to clear out Special:WantedCategories). C LYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 17:11, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, the reasons for stress may widely differ, if this is really an issue then a category surely does not solve anything. One or more essays about it may be more helpful. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Latin-language writers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 15:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Latin-language writers to Category:Writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:Latin-language writers by period to Category:Writers in Latin by period
 * Propose renaming Category:Latin letter writers to Category:Letter writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:Latin writers by century to Category:Writers in Latin by century
 * Propose renaming Category:3rd-century BC Latin writers to Category:3rd-century BC writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:2nd-century BC Latin writers to Category:2nd-century BC writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:1st-century BC Latin writers to Category:1st-century BC writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:1st-century Latin writers to Category:1st-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:2nd-century Latin writers to Category:2nd-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:3rd-century Latin writers to Category:3rd-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:4th-century Latin writers to Category:4th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:5th-century Latin writers to Category:5th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:6th-century Latin writers to Category:6th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:7th-century Latin writers to Category:7th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:8th-century Latin writers to Category:8th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:9th-century Latin writers to Category:9th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:10th-century Latin writers to Category:10th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:11th-century Latin writers to Category:11th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:12th-century Latin writers to Category:12th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:13th-century Latin writers to Category:13th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:14th-century Latin writers to Category:14th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:15th-century Latin writers to Category:15th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:16th-century Latin-language writers to Category:16th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:17th-century Latin-language writers to Category:17th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:18th-century Latin-language writers to Category:18th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:19th-century Latin-language writers to Category:19th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:20th-century Latin-language writers to Category:20th-century writers in Latin
 * Propose renaming Category:21st-century Latin-language writers to Category:21st-century writers in Latin
 * Additional Propose renaming Category:Latin-language writers from Poland to Category:Polish writers in Latin
 * Nominator's rationale: moving to full discussion after waiting for on Texts in Fooian. Now all are in the format of "writers in Latin". Mason (talk) 15:57, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Pinging @Nederlandse Leeuw and @Srnec Mason (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:Latin letter writers to Category:Letter writers in Latin – C2C: Parent:Category:Latin-language writers Mason (talk) 01:34, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Updating request to reflect consensus from Texts in Fooian. Now all are in the format of "writers in Latin". Moved to full discussion Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_7


 * Category:Latin writers by century to Category:Writers in Latin by century – C2C: Parent Category:Latin-language writers Mason (talk) 01:16, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:3rd-century BC Latin writers to Category:3rd-century BC writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:2nd-century BC Latin writers to Category:2nd-century BC writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:1st-century BC Latin writers to Category:1st-century BC writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:1st-century Latin writers to Category:1st-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:2nd-century Latin writers to Category:2nd-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:26, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:3rd-century Latin writers to Category:3rd-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:26, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:4th-century Latin writers to Category:4th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:25, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:5th-century Latin writers to Category:5th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:25, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:6th-century Latin writers to Category:6th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:7th-century Latin writers to Category:7th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:8th-century Latin writers to Category:8th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:9th-century Latin writers to Category:9th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:10th-century Latin writers to Category:10th-century writers in Latin – C2A. Mason (talk) 01:21, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:11th-century Latin writers to Category:11th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:12th-century Latin writers to Category:12th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:13th-century Latin writers to Category:13th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:19, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:14th-century Latin writers to Category:14th-century writers in Latin – C2C. Mason (talk) 01:19, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Category:15th-century Latin writers to Category:15th-century writers in Latin – C2C: Parent is Category:Medieval writers in Latin Mason (talk) 01:18, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Defer all these until we make a decision on the follow-ups of Category:Songs in Latin, Category:Texts in Latin etc. We might end up with something like Category:15th-century writers in Latin if the precedent is found to fit the writers tree as well. I'm not totally opposed to the proposed renamings, they are arguably an improvement; I just think we might do even better than Latin-language writers. NLeeuw (talk) 18:54, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. I was on the fence about "in FOO" compared to "FOOD-language" or "FOO-speaking". We should do the same for an earlier batch I did for Arabic language (like "8th-century Arabic-language poets"). Mason (talk) 21:07, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to use "Latin-language writers". It's just verbose. In this case, "Latin writers" is clear enough. The case of songs was complicated by an unrelated article at Latin music. —Srnec (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think that it is clear as it looks like any nationality right now, and could be confused with Roman or Latin American (which I know isn't a nation, but it sometimes gets used as a higher order group). It would also match all the other FOO-language categories. Mason (talk) 17:29, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * But Latin is the title of our article on the language. If it's fine there, it should be fine in the categories, at least when it is in front of the word "writers". Srnec (talk) 20:50, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Articles aren't categories. If you would prefer to rename all the categories to something like writers in LANGUAGE, then I'd be happy to support that if you did it for all the language categories. Mason (talk) 22:12, 17 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Category:Latin-language writers from Poland to Category:Polish writers in Latin – C2C: Parent is Writers in Latin by nationality Mason (talk) 12:00, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose C2C. There is not consistency among peer categories; some are "(country) writers" and others are "(language)-language writers".  This is not the place to seek consensus by caveat; rather suggest this go to full discussion. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 00:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There was an entire thread about this [ Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 31] Mason (talk) 23:50, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm going to add this one for the bundled rename. Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7 Mason (talk) 23:55, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * "Latin writers" is fine. "Latin-language writers" and "writers in Latin" are unnecessary. The article on the language is the primary topic and is at Latin. The mistake is in trying to force consistency. "Irish" and "English" are generally ambiguous, but "Aramaic" and "Latin" are not (generally, although they might be in certain contexts). Our article titles should be our guide here. Srnec (talk) 21:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per consistency. And per avoiding additional disambiguation, per Latin (disambiguation). - jc37 09:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:20th-century sportspeople by nationality
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 17%23Category:20th-century sportspeople by nationality

Category:British Columbia Liberal Party politicians
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename "British Columbia Liberal Party foo" to "BC United foo". (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:British Columbia Liberal Party politicians to Category:BC United politicians
 * Propose renaming Category:British Columbia Liberal Party MLAs to Category:BC United MLAs
 * Propose renaming Category:British Columbia Liberal Party candidates in British Columbia provincial elections to Category:BC United candidates in British Columbia provincial elections
 * Propose renaming Category:Leaders of the British Columbia Liberal Party to Category:Leaders of BC United
 * Nominator's rationale: Party changed its name from "British Columbia Liberal Party" to "BC United" earlier this year, but renaming of the associated categories was not undertaken at that time. This has crossed the line into editors actively trying to move articles into redlinked replacement categories for BC United in advance of any BC United categories actually existing, which obviously isn't acceptable -- the BC United categories have to exist before they can be used, which means that the existing categories have to be renamed first. Bearcat (talk) 14:13, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 16:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Brawand family
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:House of Reginar. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Brawand family to Category:House of Reginar
 * Nominator's rationale: Only has two pages in it Mason (talk) 14:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Small families
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete all. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting schulthess family
 * Propose deleting de muralt family
 * Propose deleting känel family
 * Propose deleting röist family
 * Propose deleting frisching family
 * Propose deleting del ponte family
 * Nominator's rationale: small cat without a corresponding eponymous article about the family Mason (talk) 13:50, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Innovators, part 2
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete all. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:38, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting british innovators
 * Propose deleting english innovators
 * Propose deleting ghanaian innovators
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_22, where the rest of the Innovators categories were deleted. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Disclosure: I already deleted the smaller Category:Chilean innovators and Category:German innovators out of process; these contained only Category:Chilean inventors and Category:German founders. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:59, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support deletion. Thank you for following up. Mason (talk) 13:36, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per previous CfD. Category:Sports inventors and innovators and Category:Cue sports inventors and innovators probably should be addressed as well. - jc37 10:01, 13 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sheikh Mansur Movement
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:Sheikh Mansur Movement

Category:19th-century Albanian military personnel
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:19th-century Albanian military personnel

Category:19th-century Albanian men
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete all of them as nominated. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:37, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 19th-century albanian men
 * Propose deleting 20th-century albanian men
 * Propose deleting 21st-century albanian men
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one or two subcategories each. The subcategories are already part of the "by occupation" tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. per nom. Mason (talk) 13:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 22:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People by ethnicity and nationality
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 14:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People by ethnicity and nationality to Category:People by nationality
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as Category:Jews is already in the Category:People by ethnicity category. Mason (talk) 16:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Support, but a specific sort key may be useful such as, so that child  is not sorted between  and . Place Clichy (talk) 22:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point, I have already done so. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: there is an open discussion to merge into the nominated category (its only content being ). Place Clichy (talk) 22:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People of the Kingdom of Jerusalem
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:People from the Kingdom of Jerusalem. (non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 21:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:People of the Kingdom of Jerusalem to Category:People from the Kingdom of Jerusalem
 * Nominator's rationale: From country/nationality, not of country/nationality Mason (talk) 03:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, "from" is the default. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer subsidiaries
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer subsidiaries

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Scotland
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 15:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Scotland to Category:Immigrants to Scotland
 * Nominator's rationale: underpopulated, overlapping category Mason (talk) 02:25, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * In this case it would not harm to add the article to Category:German emigrants to Scotland. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:05, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great suggestion! I've now added it Mason (talk) 20:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Then delete category per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:20th-century musicians from the Russian Empire
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:20th-century Russian musicians. Uncontroversial. (non-admin closure)  Edward-Woodrow  •  talk  12:14, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:20th-century musicians from the Russian Empire to Category:20th-century Russian musicians
 * Nominator's rationale: overlapping category Mason (talk) 01:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:English diplomats
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:English diplomats

Category:People by ethnicity or nationality
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was: split to Category:People by ethnicity and Category:People by nationality. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 15:40, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People by ethnicity or nationality to Category:People by ethnicity and nationality
 * Nominator's rationale: It seems that @AHI-3000 emptied the ethnicity and nationality categories Mason (talk) 21:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Liz FYI, I think that this family of categories was emptied out of turn. Mason (talk) 21:39, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay I'm just confused, why did you empty both categories? AHI-3000 (talk) 22:17, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I *tried to* restore the categories to their previous state. If you wanted to get rid of a category, you need to nominate it for deletion, not just remove all the items in it. Mason (talk) 23:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Oppose and alt split  to Category:People by ethnicity and Category:People by nationality, the target splits ethnic groups by nationality (by ethnicity and nationality) while the nominated category just mixes up the two concepts (by ethnicity or nationality). Note, for implementing the split properly the subcategories should be split as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Support! and love this alternative Mason (talk) 13:34, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose and alt split per Marcocapelle. NLeeuw (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * wait, there is just one subcategory in here, so this category can simply be deleted as a redundant category layer. There is certainly reason to split the subcategory, but let's do that in a fresh nomination because there is a whole tree under it. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. NLeeuw (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose nom, and Support Marcocapelle's proposal to selectively split between ethnicity and nationality. - jc37 09:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm just seeing this CFD nomination now. Mason, please do not empty categories before or during a CFD. It doesn't give editors participating in a deletion discussion much to consider. It effectively wastes their time to consider what should happen to empty or nearly empty categories. Next time I see this happening, from any editor, I think I'll start reverting these kinds of edits. Emptying categories that other editors are supposed to consider for deletion or merger is just disruptive as it gives an inaccurate view of how the category has been used. Using the tool that indicates which articles have been recently added or removed from categories, I see no evidence to support your claim that these pages were not originally in this category and you were returning things to the status quo. If this is true, it happened a while ago. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't really know how to respond to this, other than to ask you to assume good faith. Because it it true that "it happened a while ago", in January 22 when the hybrid category was created. I understand that emptying categories out of process is disruptive, which is why I don't do it (and when it happens it's not my intent).  Mason (talk) 00:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ethnic Albanian people
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 15%23Category:Ethnic Albanian people

Category:Henry Danger
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Relisting comment: Needs a third opinion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure)  Edward-Woodrow  •  talk  12:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting henry danger
 * Nominator's rationale: A category or template needs at least a dozen links to be useful. I don't see anything useful coming from having this category or its subcategory with so little links. Amaury • 08:31, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. So how do you propose a reader finds related article? Scan through the article to find any relevant links? This is exactly what a category is for. Gonnym (talk) 12:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This category meets all the size requirements for Smallcat. The norm is 5, not 12. Mason (talk) 12:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly. It isn't that difficult for a small universe like this. There are links for a reason. Besides which, they are all technically different series. Just because size requirements may technically be met doesn't mean it's warranted. It's the reason WP:UNDUE exists. Just because there's some sort of statement that is covered by a reliable source doesn't automatically mean it merits inclusion in Article Y. For example, if an actor departs from a series, the exact details belong on the actor's article, not the series' article. You can mention the actor left the series on the series' page, but anything else beyond that belongs on the actor article. In this case, common sense must also be used. Are size requirements technically met? Yes. Is there any use for such a small category? No. Also note that WP:SMALLCAT is a guideline, not a policy. It's not a hard top-down rule that must be absolutely followed every time. Amaury • 09:07, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Such a large wall of text to talk about something completely unrelated. UNDUE is really irrelevant here. Also, if your argument that a relevant guideline should be ignored because it isn't a policy, you should really have at least something better than a personal opionion (your deletion argument does not cite a policy nor a guideline...). Gonnym (talk) 16:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you're from, but that is by no means a wall of text. My response was perfectly related to this and relevant. The WP:UNDUE example was perfectly relevant. The specific page is WP:GUIDES, which states: Editors should attempt to follow guidelines, though they are best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply. Emphasis mine. However, citing a policy or even a guideline is not required to nominate a category or template for deletion. I've gotten support for deletion of categories and templates in the past from other users without citing a specific guideline or policy, and the categories or templates were subsequently deleted. I'm not saying you shouldn't cite something, but it's not required. Amaury • 19:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It really isn't. Re-read WP:UNDUE not only does it not talk about categories, but the entire page talks about a neutral point of view (hence Neutral point of view). So yeah, completely irrelevant argument and nomination that not only cites nothing relevant, but ignores actual relevant guidelines. Gonnym (talk) 08:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Just to comment on the re-list. You had 3 opinions (nom, Mason, myself). A better wording would have been "more opinions". Gonnym (talk) 08:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose, it is a borderline case, so give the category the benefit of the doubt. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Teen films
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 17%23Category:Teen films