Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 11

 &lt; July 10 July 12 &gt;

Category:Cigarette holders

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting cigarette holders
 * Nominator's rationale: Only contents are 3 files; cannot be expanded beyond the main article Cigarette holder (which isn't in the category). –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 20:58, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete. FWIW I have listed the current contents as a gallery in Cigarette holder. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fails WP:NFCC, these images are non-free. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 05:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2018 in Tamil Nadu

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:2018 in Tamil Nadu to Category:2010s in Tamil Nadu and Category:2018 in India
 * Nominator's rationale: Isolated category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Admin note: The establishments subcat automatically populates this parent only if it exists. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2014 in Odisha

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:2014 in Odisha to Category:2010s in Odisha
 * Propose merging Category:2011 in Odisha to Category:2010s in Odisha
 * Propose merging Category:2012 in Odisha to Category:2010s in Odisha
 * Propose merging Category:2013 in Odisha to Category:2010s in Odisha
 * Nominator's rationale: As above. Redirect following precedent for former siblings. This group of four categories contain only 1 article apart from the establishments subcats. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:55, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Economics category header templates
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 03:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Economics category header templates to Category:Economics templates
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary layer, all the contents are in the subcat Category:Economics chronology category header templates. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:56, 11 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional robbers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 22%23Category:Fictional robbers

Category:Mongol states
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 00:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus.  ✗  plicit  03:09, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mongol states to Category:Former countries in Mongolian history
 * Nominator's rationale: merge or reverse merge, it is unclear how the categories are different from each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep The difference is that some of the Mongol states were not physically located in present-day Mongolia. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * doesn't that apply to both categories? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * No, because all of the countries in the Mongolian history category had territory in Mongolia, whereas the Khanate of Kazan was located in European Russia. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 06:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: I will tag Category:Former countries in Mongolian history. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:35, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, so that means merge is not an option, but reverse merge still is. It seems too confusing to keep them both. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep neither merging nor reverse merging are options. Ilkhanate belongs to the first category but not the second, while First Turkic Khaganate is the reverse. &#126;~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works about villains

 * Propose deleting works about villains
 * Nominator's rationale: This topic is really vague in the extreme, almost anything can be called a "villain" by someone or characterized as being "about" a villain if they feature heavily in the plot. It doesn't make sense as a category. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Works with villain protagonists. Looking at one of the articles, I think this is supposed to be about works with a villain as the protagonist, such as Soon I Will Be Invincible. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually, Category:Works featuring villain protagonists, like the video game subcategory, Category:Video games featuring villain protagonists. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Rename or delete? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:34, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If kept, rename. That clarification is really needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment I do not support renaming, as I think the renamed category suffers from the same problem, as does the existing VG category. I could easily call Nathan Drake a "villain protagonist", after all he does kill hundreds in his archaeology escapades. The "Fictional heroes" and "Fictional villains" categories were made recently, one by a disruptive editor, and are also subjective. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete but add Category:Video games featuring villain protagonists‎ up into for now. The film subcat is already within that parent hierarchy via Supervillains. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The merge target must now be Category:Villains after Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_July_8. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Family of Boris Johnson

 * Propose renaming Category:Family of Boris Johnson to Category:Boris Johnson family
 * Nominator's rationale: Reverse speedy name change. It was an error on my part; I didn't realize that the original version was the correct form. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom, see Category:Family by person. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:39, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Wait, for some reason I had in mind to rename to Category:Family of Boris Johnson instead of from. Most siblings use "Family of" so I am not sure why it would be more correct to have family at the end. More explanation is needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:34, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose; most subcats of Category:Family by person follow the existing style. "[Surname] family" and "Family of [full name]" seems to be the general rule. Ham II (talk) 19:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Ham II, @Marcocapelle - it matches categories in Category:Political families of the United Kingdom and Category:Families of prime ministers of the United Kingdom. Not to mention that it is also the format for Category:First families of the United States. Omnis Scientia (talk) 21:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ultimately I think either way is fine, but apparently we need an option A versus an option B here in order to achieve consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Most of the comparable categories in Category:Political families of the United Kingdom have only surnames; the only ones with individuals' names are this one and Category:Family of Sir Henry Norman, 1st Baronet. There are articles titled Family of David Cameron and Family of Winston Churchill in politics (as well as Family of Joe Biden, Family of Donald Trump and Family of Barack Obama). In Category:First families of the United States, "[Surname] family" isn't used for Category:Family of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Ham II (talk) 06:06, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * @Marcocapelle, I would say that the name, for now, should be made consistant with all the other categories and then a later Cfd can be opened with an A and B option for categories like this. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree with the principle of discussing the A and B options; would that be an RfC or can CfDs present two possibilities like that? I've found many more categories to add to Category:Families by person (which has been speedily renamed since earlier in this conversation), and the picture now looks very mixed. Ham II (talk) 19:45, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

16th to 19th century in (Portuguese) Mozambique
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: the motions all carry. No bad proposals were made; all proposals are adopted. This wobbly train somehow did not wreck; kudos to all participants :) House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 05:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1501 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1501 establishments in Africa and Category:1501 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1505 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1505 establishments in Africa and Category:1505 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1569 disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1569 disestablishments and Category:16th-century disestablishments in Africa and Category:1569 disestablishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1570 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1570 establishments in Africa and Category:1570 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1576 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1576 establishments in Africa and Category:1576 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1614 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1614 establishments in Africa and Category:1614 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1676 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1676 establishments in Africa and Category:1676 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1676 disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1676 disestablishments in Africa and Category:1676 disestablishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1680 disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1680 disestablishments in Africa and Category:1680 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1776 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1776 establishments in Africa and Category:1776 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1836 establishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1836 establishments in Africa and Category:1836 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1836 disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:1836 disestablishments and Category:1830s disestablishments in Africa and Category:1836 disestablishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Disestablishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1880s in Mozambique to Category:History of Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1887 establishments in Mozambique to Category:1887 establishments in Africa and Category:1880s establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1890s in Portuguese Mozambique to Category:History of Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1890s establishments in Mozambique to Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:1893 establishments in Mozambique‎ to Category:1893 establishments in Africa and Category:1893 establishments in the Portuguese Empire and Category:Establishments in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:18th-century Mozambican people to Category:18th-century African people and Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:18th-century Mozambican women to Category:Mozambican women
 * Propose merging Category:19th-century Mozambican people to Category:19th-century African people and Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose merging Category:19th-century Mozambican women to Category:Mozambican women
 * Propose merging Category:19th-century bishops in Mozambique to Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, all single-article categories, not helpful for navigation. Also consistently use "Portuguese Mozambique", as all articles refer to the Portuguese colony, rather than a mix of "Mozambique" and "Portuguese Mozambique", and Category:Portuguese Mozambique needs to exist anyway. I am proposing the latter because we need Category:Portuguese Mozambique anyway. Splitting in four century categories isn't necessary because the history, establishments and disestablishments categories will ultimately contain only 10, 14 and 4 direct articles respectively. This is follow-up on an earlier discussion with User:Fayenatic london. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with most of these, however,
 * Propose merging Category:19th-century bishops in Mozambique to Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique, should be Category:19th-century bishops to Category:Bishops in Mozambique because they're still bishops and are bishops in Mozambique
 * Mason (talk) 20:32, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Mason I think you have a good point but please clarify these links, which currently appear mistaken. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:21, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, let me try to be less lazy this time 🤣 . Some of the relevant parent categories are missing, mainly occupation and century. Specifically,
 * Category:19th-century bishops in Mozambique should be merged to Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique, Category:Bishops in Mozambique, and Category:19th-century bishops in Africa.
 * Category:19th-century Mozambican women should be merged to Category:Mozambican women, Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique, Category:19th-century African people, and Category:19th-century women.
 * Category:18th-century Mozambican women should be merged to Category:Mozambican women, Category:People from Portuguese Mozambique, Category:18th-century African people, and Category:18th-century women.
 * In theory the women merge targets could be fine if the category is properly non-diffused, but I'd rather have the redundancy in case someone gets incorrectly removed from a "redundant layer" by the time the bot gets to this. Mason (talk) 22:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)


 * See also the next nomination regarding the 20th century. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:36, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Thank you for this careful nomination. At the previous discussion I suggested keeping a C18 parent category, but that was of marginal value. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:21, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * This will empty several layers of parents. IMHO the more important parents should be tagged and listed here so that in future editors will be able to trace the rationale for deleting them. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, below are the century categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:16th century in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose deleting Category:17th century in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose deleting Category:18th century in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose deleting Category:19th century in Portuguese Mozambique
 * Propose deleting Category:19th century in Mozambique

Relisting comment: Relisting because some categories have not been tagged for a week. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I also support Mason's amendments. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:53, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Still supporting, except Keep Category:19th century in Mozambique. I have added the events from Category:1880s in Mozambique and Category:1890s in Portuguese Mozambique. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * are you okay with keeping Category:19th century in Mozambique? House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 03:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with keeping. Mason (talk) 03:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * alright. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.