Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 20

 &lt; July 19 July 21 &gt;

Pre-statehood Colorado categories

 * Propose merging category to Category:1874 in Colorado Territory
 * Propose redirecting category to Category:1874 in Colorado Territory and tagging as R from category navigation
 * Nominator's rationale: If kept, rename to Foo in Colorado Territory because Colorado did not become a state until 1876. However, a single-redirect category is not helpful for navigation. Merge to Category:1874 in Colorado Territory, and redirect Category:1874 in Colorado to Category:1874 in Colorado Territory as a R from category navigation. House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 20:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge and redirect per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Homosexual concentration camp survivors

 * Propose renaming Category:Homosexual concentration camp survivors to Category:LGBT concentration camp survivors
 * Nominator's rationale: I think we should rename this category to use the more inclusive and commonly used term of LGBT. The rename would also be more consistent with the other Nazi era category (Category:LGBT people in the Nazi Party‎) Mason (talk) 20:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename for consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Missouri elections before Missouri was a state

 * Propose merging category to Category:1812 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1814 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1816 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1817 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1819 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: If kept, rename all to Foo in Missouri Territory because Missouri was not a state yet. However, a tree entirely composed of single-redirect categories is not helpful for navigation, and should be merged to the respective "[Year] in Missouri Territory" categories. (Category:1814 Missouri elections has two redirects, but the principle stands.) Delete two other categories which will become empty once all of their children categories are merged. House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 20:49, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Washington (state) categories

 * Propose merging category to Category:1860 in Washington Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1870 in Washington Territory
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: First, Washington (state) did not become a state until 1889, so these categories are redundant to the corresponding Washington Territory. However, this entire mini-tree is just to categorize two redirects, so we only need to move them the appropriate "[Year] in Washington Territory" categories and delete the tree. House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 19:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Parks and lakes in Jakarta

 * Propose splitting Category:Parks and lakes in Jakarta to Category:Parks in Jakarta and Category:Lakes of Jakarta
 * Nominator's rationale: Badly-named category that crosses two different types of things. No other category for either parks or lakes anywhere else in the world merges the two things into one shared category, and there's no reason why Jakarta's parks and lakes would have a uniquely Jakarta-specific need for different handling from everywhere else. In fact, this was originally at just "parks", and then got moved to this divergent name several years ago without any particular explanation given as to why such a thing would have been needed. Bearcat (talk) 17:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Split per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Missouri Territory

 * Propose merging category to Category:1812 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1814 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1816 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1817 in Missouri Territory
 * Propose merging category to Category:1819 in Missouri Territory
 * Nominator's rationale: Missouri did not exist until 1821; beforehand, it was the Missouri Territory. Merge to reflect this, and keep redirects as R from template-generated categorys R from category navigation . House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 14:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC) (corrected  rcat at 20:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC))


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:LGBT men artists

 * Propose renaming Category:LGBT men artists to Category:LGBT male artists
 * Nominator's rationale: Moving to [full]. Norm is "Male artists". For the record, the speedy rename was supported by the category creator. discussants. Mason (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per LGBT men, Transgender men and their eponymous categories. Calling transgender men "male" could be slightly awkward. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * then all these categories need renaming. -- MikutoH talk! 22:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Why Category:Male artists and Category:Women artists but not Category:Men artists or Category:Female artists? Is it because of grammar or something else? -- MikutoH talk! 23:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Princes in Germany

 * Propose renaming Category:Princes in Germany to Category:Princes in the German Empire
 * Nominator's rationale: rename for clarification that it is not about people after World War I, and to align with Category:People from the German Empire. Also check entries manually: if they do not belong here, they are likely to belong in Category:Princes of the Holy Roman Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support rename. ETA: Also support purge. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle, shouldn't there be one for the German Confederation era between the Holy Roman Empire and German Empire? Just a thought. I know there was a brief North German Confederation but that was essentially a brief version of what became the united German Empire. The main big one was between the two empires was the German Confederation. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * no principalities of the German Confederation disappeared when the German Empire was established so that is redundant. The reverse is more likely: principalities may have existed both in the Holy Roman Empire and in the German Empire. But that is okay, then the principalities just stay in two categories as they already do now. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:32, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah alright. Understood. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom SFBB (talk) 10:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Dutch princes

 * Propose merging Category:Dutch princes to Category:Princes of the Netherlands
 * Nominator's rationale: this previous discussion was about Fooian princes or princes of Foo, but we certainly do not need them both. Purge entries that aren't about princes in the Netherlands and merge the two categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * pinging contributors to previous discussion. See also discussion right above this one. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support rename. ETA: also support purge. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom SFBB (talk) 10:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Pig breeds originating from Indigenous Americans

 * Propose merging Category:Pig breeds originating from Indigenous Americans to Category:Mammal breeds originating from Indigenous Americans
 * Propose merging Category:Sheep breeds originating from Indigenous Americans to Category:Mammal breeds originating from Indigenous Americans
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, one-article categories are not helpful for navigation. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:50, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Breeds originating from Indigenous Americans

 * Propose merging Category:Breeds originating from Indigenous Americans to Category:Breeds originating from Indigenous people, Category:Indigenous culture of the Americas and Category:Animal breeds originating in the Americas
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:47, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. I also think the current category name is confusing/hard to parse. Mason (talk) 14:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Multiple citizenship

 * Option A: rename Category:Multiple citizenship to Category:Multiple nationality.
 * OR: option B: rename Category:People with multiple nationality to Category:People with multiple citizenship.
 * Rationale: consistency. Until other arguments weigh in, option B is the preferred option per article title Multiple citizenship. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Philippine Sports Commission

 * Propose deleting philippine sports commission
 * Nominator's rationale: Unneeded eponymous category that contains nothing apart from the main article. Paul_012 (talk) 04:04, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Update: In light of the population of the category since the nomination, I'm willing to withdraw my nomination (though it should continue as there has also been another delete !vote). --Paul_012 (talk) 12:11, 21 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose At the time of nominate, indeed the category contained only the eponymous article. I have since added applicable entries to the category. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 06:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Lean delete, I can't think of any other example of buildings and structures categorized by who maintains them. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Pyramids and bipyramids

 * Propose splitting Category:Pyramids and bipyramids to Category:Pyramids (geometry) and Category:Bipyramids
 * Nominator's rationale: These are two different classes of shapes that shouldn't be lumped together. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 02:00, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Split per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Tamil priests

 * Propose renaming Category:Tamil priests to Category:Tamil clergy
 * Nominator's rationale: I think we should broaden the category to all clergy rather than the narrower priests. (I am not opposed to upmerging for now, given that this category has only one person in it) Mason (talk) 01:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Tamil people per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Equally fine with me. Mason (talk) 14:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

AFD topic-sorting subcategories

 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: I originally brought this up here and nobody seemed to have any objection to moving forward or any reason why these are still useful, so here we are.


 * These categories are redundant to deletion sorting, which provides much more fine-grained sorting and is built in to scripts such as Twinkle. Their utility was clear in the past before deletion sorting became both commonplace and simple to do, but now they are just an unneeded extra step in the process. It is my guess that the only reason they are still in use is that these same tools require it as part of the nomination process. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete There is no archive for closed discussions in these categories. They also overlap in scope, and their format does not support the overlap, unlike delsort. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 07:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment It is my understanding that any given deletion discussion may appear on more than one category page. If this is correct, then the overlap makes topics relevant to one's interest and expertise easier to find. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Unsure as I actually use both the categories and WP:DELSORT, and they are not fully redundant. E.g. WP:DELSORT/FICT lists 9 entries, while Category:AfD debates (Fiction and the arts) lists 15 entries -- that is a 66% increase. My user behaviour might be a relic of 15 years ago though when I was way more active. – sgeureka t•c 09:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I find the categories useful. My primary interest is articles in AFD/P. Having the shortcut makes it easy to find articles in that category. Mjroots (talk) 20:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Category:Beşiktaş J.K. players
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting beşiktaş j.k. players
 * Nominator's rationale: This should be an intermediate layer in Category:Beşiktaş J.K., not a disambig category. This football club has several branches for other sports. –Laundry<b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 00:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Category:Dominican Republic people of European American descent

 * Propose merging Category:Dominican Republic people of European American descent to Category:White Dominicans
 * Nominator's rationale: Weird and confusing name. Looking at the content of this category, it seems that this is not intended for Dominicans with ancestry in the U.S., as the parent categories would indicate, (for which we have ) but in fact Dominicans from the local population of largely colonial European background, which is called the White Dominicans. is an example of that. Deletion is also an option. Place Clichy (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting per Deletion review/Log/2024 June 6 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 21:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC) Relisting comment: I am going to ping all of the participants at the DRV thread. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:04, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete, these articles belong in normal descent subcategories by nationality, and mostly already are in those. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:17, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete I'd probably support renaming White Dominicans, but this is not the answer. SportingFlyer  T · C  13:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per above dicussion. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * please share your thoughts. House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:06, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete Thanks for the ping. I have shared my thoughts here but I will repost them here for convenience:


 * Why should Wikipedia categorize people based on their ancestry? We don't know the ancestry of 99% of BLP subjects. For example, Category:Dominican Republic people of African American descent contains Max Puig who is also in the category Category:Dominican Republic people of Italian descent. But he is also in Dominican Republic people of Catalan descent, Dominican Republic people of Haitian descent, People of Ligurian descent, Dominican Republic people of Dutch descent and Dominican Republic people of Turks and Caicos Islands descent... Who gives a shit? We should remove this information about non-notable people. Do we really want to list everyone's ancestry for thousands of generations until everyone is from Africa? This obsession is unhealthy and insane. We have no reliable sources that give detailed information on the ancestry of anyone alive today, unless perhaps if you are a Habsburger or similar (and even in that case we only know a fragment). It is weird and potentially offensive to label people incorrectly based on flimsy evidence, notoriously unreliable amateur genealogical research and looks. Why do we not require sources for categorization? Just categorize people on their nationality/nationalities if there are reliable sources. Polygnotus (talk) 01:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC)