Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 12

 &lt; June 11 June 13 &gt;

Category:Live at the Fillmore East albums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 01:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Live at the Fillmore East albums to Category:Albums recorded at the Fillmore East
 * Nominator's rationale: C2C — see subcategories in Category:Live albums by venue in the United States for similar examples. Trivialist (talk) 22:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom, this could have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Croat Roman Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts &thinsp;talk 05:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting croat roman catholic clergy from bosnia and herzegovina
 * Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already dealt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  16:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Question Are these all already in Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina Roman Catholic clergy? If so, I support deletion. If not, I think upmerging is a better idea. NLeeuw (talk) 17:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  17:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, fixed. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  17:42, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete All contents are likely in relevant parent categories or do not belong. –LaundryPizza03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Croat Christian clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts &thinsp;<i style="color:#FF1493;">talk</i> 05:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting croat christian clergy from bosnia and herzegovina
 * Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already dealt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  16:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fixed. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  17:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:40, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Croat Greek Catholic clergy from Bosnia and Herzegovina
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting croat greek catholic clergy from bosnia and herzegovina
 * Nominator's rationale: Ethnicization of entire tree of Category:Catholic clergy of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's a one editor's attempt to squeeze ethnic labels onto categories regarding one of the religious communities of the country. It should be checked if this issue was already delt with once before. Note that other two communities (Orthodox and Islamic) are categorized only with their respective denomination labels not with their eventual ethnicities. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  16:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment I find it unhelpful that you have removed the parent categories. Now I can't easily see what the creator was trying to do, and whether it might be better to upmerge instead of delete. NLeeuw (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fixed. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  17:43, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment Category has been emptied. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There was only one page in that category, which had no place there anyway. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  18:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Then you could have tagged it CSD C1 instead of opening a discussion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's part of this tree that we are discussing so I presumed it wouldn't hurt to present it all three cats together. ౪ Santa ౪  99°  08:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:41, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Legendary creatures
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Legendary creatures

Category:Painters of the Holy Land pre-1948
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Painters of pre-1948 Palestine. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  18:49, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Painters of the Holy Land pre-1948 to Category:???????
 * Nominator's rationale: I'm not really sure what to do with this category name, because it isn't particularly helpful/descriptive. Is this painters from after 1948 who painted the "holy land" or is it painters of what the "holy land" looked like after 1948. Mason (talk) 13:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Thoughts on deletion/merging? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 15:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete, among Category:Painters by theme this concerns an extremely narrow theme. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:Landscape painters for now, with prejudice, as "Holy Land" is a WP:POV term. If anyone wants to revive the catname in the future, it needs a compelling justification. NLeeuw (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree that Holy Land is very much a pov term. Mason (talk) 00:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep' The nomination seems confused, perhaps fatally - the category is "PRE-1948" so it is not for "painters from after 1948 who painted the "holy land" or is it painters of what the "holy land" looked like after 1948."  In the 19th-century context "Holy Land" is certainly the term that would have been used by the artists and their publics, & I don't think it is POV. If people want to delete it on those grounds they should think of alternatives, as it seems a valid category. Rather than being "an extremely narrow theme", it saw a big boom in the 19th century, partly as a branch of Orientalist painting. The category misses the most famous people, at least in the Anglosphere - where are William Holman Hunt, Edward Lear, James Tissot and many others?  Johnbod (talk) 15:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Orientalist painters is a good point, the articles should be added to Category:Orientalist painters if applicable and if they are not in that tree yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I see only one of the 5 described as "Orientalist" (and Marcocapelle just categorised then as such). James Tissot is indeed a name I recognise as painting events from the Hebrew Bible, though not necessarily "the Holy Land". E.g. File:Tissot The Women of Midian Led Captive by the Hebrews.jpg supposedly took place in southern Transjordan in what is now Saudi Arabia.
 * Moreover, a lot of them were apparently Jewish, while "Holy Land" is a Christian term. It's really difficult to shape a category around such a vague concept with the people currently and proposed to be in there.
 * I should add that "Holy Land" can be an appropriate term if the subject in question is entirely Christian, for, by and about Christians, e.g. Recovery of the Holy Land. No other phrase will describe that late medieval Christian literary genre that aptly. But for these painters...? I'm not convinced. NLeeuw (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's highly unclear where the events of Numbers 31 took place (if anwhere), but it seems more likely to be in modern Israel or Jordan than Saudi. In any case, Tissot spent time in Palestine to get his settings right, without I think getting as far as modern Saudi. I don't think that a century ago "Holy Land" was exclusively a Christian term - it would be rather ironic if it was. Johnbod (talk) 21:57, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, Arabic Wikipedia ar:الأراضي المقدسة says: The Holy Land is a term used in the Christian and Jewish religions to refer to the holy places in Palestine, especially Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and Nazareth...
 * Hebrew Wikipedia he:ארץ הקודש says: Jews usually refer to the Land of Israel as the "Holy Land".[Source needed] However, the Bible refers to it explicitly as "holy land" in only one passage, the book of Zechariah, chapter 2, verse 16.
 * It doesn't seem like it is very common (at least not in the arguably main languages used by the most relevant religions and populations) to use the term "Holy Land" in Judaism or Islam. They may regard the land as sacred in some way, but calling it "Holy Land", capital H capital L, seems very much a Christian practice.
 * At any rate, if 19th-century and early 20th-century Orientalist is our scope, why not use the term Levant instead? It fits the period well, is broader than just Palesrael, and is not as politically and religiously charged. NLeeuw (talk) 01:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * A fine piece of OR, & reliance on primary sources! You contradict your own research superbly there! "Jews usually refer to the Land of Israel as the "Holy Land"" and you conclude "It doesn't seem like it is very common (at least not in the arguably main languages used by the most relevant religions and populations) to use the term "Holy Land" in Judaism or Islam. They may regard the land as sacred in some way, but calling it "Holy Land", capital H capital L, seems very much a Christian practice." Wonderful! "Palestine" (much less controversial in this period, & the official name for some of it) would be better than "Levant".  I don't mind splitting off the 2-3 proto-Israeli figures, who I agree are rather different. Johnbod (talk) 02:30, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well no, I'm not claiming this is in-depth research lol. Let's try something a bit more empirical:
 * Google Books search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "holy land": 2.110 results
 * Google Books search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "levant": 1.950 results
 * Google Scholar search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "holy land": 207 results
 * Google Scholar search: landscape "orientalist paintings" "levant": 223 results
 * Neither "holy land" or "levant" is particularly likely to be part of the title. Painting the Holy Land in the Nineteenth Century (1997) and Visions of the East: Influence of the Levant on the Italian Renaissance (2015) are two rare exceptions to this rule.
 * David Roberts is often mentioned, but more frequently with "Palestine" than with "Holy Land". His bio David Roberts (painter) uses the term "Holy Land" no fewer than 12 times, though usually in conjuction with other 'countries' around it: his travelogue The Holy Land, Syria, Idumea, Arabia, Egypt, and Nubia comprises about half of those mentions.
 * Gustav Bauernfeind (not yet in this category) is more usually associated with "Levant"; in fact, his bio has Gustav Bauernfeind, mentioning 'the Levant, the Orient, Ottoman Palestine, Jerusalem, Lebanon, Syria, the Holy Land'. Seems to me that Levant is the broadest, most encompassing and inclusive term of the two (or three if we count 'Palestine'). As it is broader, it could also include paintings of certain biblical narratives that are set in Transjordan (such as the one of Tissot referenced above), which may or may not be included under the term "Holy Land". It might be a good idea to add a catdesc that gives a description of what we mean by 'Levant', and the term 'Holy Land' does seem fitting there (amongst the other regions/countries I mention in this comment) instead of in the catname itself. Maybe that's an acceptable compromise? NLeeuw (talk) 13:49, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * PS: Something like catname: Category:Orientalist painters of the Levant
 * Catdesc:
 * Might that work? NLeeuw (talk) 13:58, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It might (moving out the proto-Israelis), but I don't understand why people keep talking about "landscape" painters/paintings. Some, like Lear and Roberts, mostly were, but others, like Hunt and Tissot, concentrated on history paintings of Biblical narrative subjects, obviously many with landscape backgrounds. I'd still prefer Palestine to Levant. But I think it is important that we explicitly restrict the category to those who had actually spent time in the area, rather than working things up in Europe. Johnbod (talk) 17:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well because currently one of the parent categories is Category:Landscape painters. If that is incorrect, we should purge that parent. NLeeuw (talk) 10:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  16:01, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep per Johnbod's reasoning. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Rename to Painters of pre-1948 Palestine. Some artists in this period may have have called it the holy land, others will have not, but that term is certainly POV. It was historically and geographically known as Palestine pre-1948, and this is how academic literature presents it, e.g.: Imagined Homeland: landscape painting in Palestine in the 1920s Iskandar323 (talk) 04:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "Palestine" could work as an alternative, certainly for the British mandate period. Johnbod also preferred Palestine over Levant. For me Rename to Category:Painters of pre-1948 Palestine is a second choice (my primary choice remains Upmerging, see above). This could work as a compromise. NLeeuw (talk) 23:11, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment - I am still not sure if this is about painters from "Holly Land" or painters of the "Holly Land", where the "Holly Land" is the label for a theme not a country or state, and I am reading through this discussion for the second time?-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  14:32, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * considering the articles in this category it is certainly meant as "of", not as "from". Marcocapelle (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Polish social activists of the Prussian partition
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 22%23Category:Polish social activists of the Prussian partition

Category:Activists for Palestinian solidarity
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: purge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:39, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose ??? activists for palestinian solidarity
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a random mix of people who aren't activists. Purge the category and leave in actual activists. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also I'm not too sure about it but maybe rename to "Pro-Palestinian activists". Any other suggestion would be helpful; this one seems rather vague. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support rename to "Pro-Palestinian activists", if only because that new name would be shorter and simpler, yet also straight to the point. AHI-3000 (talk) 15:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll wait for some consensus here before I proceed with the subcategories. Honestly, going through them, I don't think any of these people in any of these categories were checked to see if they actually were activists for Palestinian solidarity, particularly given a number of these aren't pro-Palestinian but rather anti-Israeli. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I would prefer keeping this category, I should add, since there is a big Palestinian movement and activists who are pro-Palestinian. I just think we should be careful who to put in. Some of these "pro-Palestinian" people aren't pro-Palestinian at all. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think renaming it to "Advocates for Palestinian Solidarity" would be best. NesserWiki (talk) 02:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: No clear consensus on rename. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  15:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support doing something, but mixed on the alternative rename. I think that the "Pro-Palestinian activists" are indeed a more specific subgroup that are definitely nested within Anti-racist activists. Perhaps splitting or nesting/reorganizing to acknowledge that there are also activists for Palestinian civil rights etc. idk 🤷 It's really complicated.Mason (talk) 18:21, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Smasongarrison, it is quite complicated, you're right. I'm not too sure about myself but, IMO and as you have said yourself, "Pro-Palestinian" is less vague and more definable than "Activists for Palestinian solidarity". Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point. (To be clear, I'm not opposed to the rename if that's were consensus goes. ) I've started cleaning up the ethnic/religious intersections with the group in the hope that I'll have some inspiration. Mason (talk) 19:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Smasongarrison, I only just noticed this and wanted to say thank you! Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Purge: a removal of articles about people who weren't activists is a no-brainer. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * @LaundryPizza03, I would say leave the rename out for now. That can be done in a seperate Cfd. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * @Qwerfjkl, as nominator, you can close this as purge non-activists. I will open a seperate Cfd on renaming, along with its subcategories. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of Great Britain
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 24%23Category:History of Great Britain

Category:Roman generals
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 22%23Category:Roman generals

Category:Galician animated films
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 25%23Category:Galician animated films

Category:Battles involving the Qarmatians
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Battles involving the Qarmatians

Category:Crime action films
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Crime action films

Category:Fictional female entertainers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 23%23Category:Fictional female entertainers

Category:Fictional children by occupation
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 24%23Category:Fictional children by occupation

Category:Invasions of the Dutch Republic
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:11, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose upmerging Category:Invasions of the Dutch Republic to Category:Invasions of former countries
 * Propose upmerging Category:Invasions by the Kingdom of Prussia to Category:Invasions by former countries
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now per WP:MFN, as both cats have only 2 items, one of which doesn't apply (Johann Friedrich von Salm-Grumbach isn't an invasion but an officer who participated). Only upmerge to Category:Invasions of former countries and Category:Invasions by former countries, respectively; Prussian invasion of Holland is already in all other parents. NLeeuw (talk) 09:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I removed Johann Friedrich von Salm-Grumbach from the categories. Merge in principle, but the target categories sound a bit like they should be container categories. Merging to Category:Invasions could also be an option. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * They do sound a bit like containercats, but if we treat them like that, it forces us to either upmerge articles, or diffuse articles and create small cats, for which we would need to upmerge them again, but two levels. Hence a bit of pragmatism seems called for until we've got more options. NLeeuw (talk) 06:26, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Invasions of the Republic of Genoa
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:11, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose upmerging Category:Invasions of the Republic of Genoa to Category:Invasions of former countries and Category:Wars involving the Republic of Genoa
 * Nominator's rationale: 1 P, 0 C. Dual upmerge for now per WP:MFN. Category:Invasions of Italy does not apply, since Italy as a state did not exist at the time, and Corsica is not part of Italy today. NLeeuw (talk) 09:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Wars involving the Republic of Genoa and possibly Category:Invasions of former countries, see my comments in the above discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pretenders to the Albanian throne
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Toadette Edit! 18:11, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting pretenders to the albanian throne
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OR WP:NPOV. Follow-up to deletion of Line of succession to the former Albanian throne, see Articles for deletion/Line of succession to the former Albanian throne. See also Articles for deletion/Pretenders to the throne of Mexico, Articles for deletion/Pretenders to the throne of Parma, and User:Nederlandse Leeuw/Pretenders. NLeeuw (talk) 08:50, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * courtesy ping to participants in previous discussion Articles for deletion/Line of succession to the former Albanian throne for follow-up. NLeeuw (talk) 08:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment Because of this, Template:Pretenders to the Albanian throne is now at TfD. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete, everything said in the list discussion applies here as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pretenders to the Mexican throne
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Pretenders to the Mexican throne

Category:Whitewashing in film
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 21%23Category:Whitewashing in film

Category:Fictional millers
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Works about millers. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional millers to Category:Works about agriculture
 * Nominator's rationale: Does not actually contain fictional millers, just works. Basically WP:SHAREDNAME. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:13, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - per rationale. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Works about millers. Shared name is frankly irrelevant here. They share a topic, not a name. Dimadick (talk) 17:31, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Rename per Dimadick. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional cafeteria workers
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:12, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Fictional cafeteria workers to Category:Fictional people in food and agriculture
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a rather small and narrow category with no real-life equivalent. We don't need a hyperspecific category for literally every job. Edit: Actually it should probably just be deleted, when you remove Chef from South Park, who is already under "Fictional chefs", there is nothing pertinent here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - as Chef (South Park) is already in a reasonable subcat for the merge target. All that remains after that is a redirect and an article that should not be on the category tree. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:57, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional extraterrestrial royalty
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 * The result of the discussion was: dual merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional extraterrestrial royalty to Category:Fictional royalty
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional extraterrestrial princesses to Category:Fictional princesses
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NARROWCAT made by blocked user. The "princesses" category should also be dual merged to Category:Fictional extraterrestrial characters. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge This was last nominated in Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_16. I no longer agree with my old rationale, because while there is room for expansion using existing articles, there is nothing to justify separating aliens from fantasy-world inhabitants, or even from the royals of fictional countries on Earth.
 * There is no need to merge Category:Fictional extraterrestrial royalty to Category:Fictional royalty because the only contents are a redirect; Category:Fictional extraterrestrial princesses, which is also in this CfD; and Category:Galactic emperors, which is already in a different subcategory of the target. I don't think the Galactic emperors is in another subcategory of Category:Fictional extraterrestrial characters, so we can merge there. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't it be a dual merge, also to Category:Fictional extraterrestrial characters? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 11:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Dual merge per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mythological male/female royalty
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated, to Category:Mythological royalty only. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 01:13, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mythological male royalty to Category:Mythological royalty
 * Propose merging Category:Mythological female royalty to Category:Mythological royalty
 * Nominator's rationale: Yet another WP:NARROWCAT pointless category. This is such a narrow intersection (mythical + gender + royalty) that a category is not necessary. I don't believe it should be merged to "fictional" as myth and fiction are separate. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Dual upmerge nominee 1 to Category:Mythological royalty and Category:Fictional male royalty.
 * Triple upmerge nominee 2 to Category:Fictional female royalty, Category:Mythological royalty, and Category:Women in mythology.
 * Nom is right that having categories with just 2 subcategories isn't very useful for navigation, but we should upmerge to all parents. NLeeuw (talk) 06:29, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fiction may overlap with mythology in some cases but the two are distinct concepts. Mythology can also contain embellished or rumored versions of real events. The Bible has mythological elements, but most would not agree it is a pure "work of fiction". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair point. NLeeuw (talk) 08:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge as nominated. Concur with nominator about the distinction between mythology and fiction. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms economists
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Toadette Edit! 18:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting five dynasties and ten kingdoms economists
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, despite what the article says this is not about an economist. It is more like a minister of finance, so the article is alright in Category:Later Tang government officials. If not deleted, then merge to Category:Chinese economists. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete No merge is necessary because Kong Qian is in Category:Economists from Hebei. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


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Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:17, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Later Han (Five Dynasties) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Later Han (Five Dynasties) Buddhists
 * Propose merging Category:Later Jin (Five Dynasties) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Later Jin (Five Dynasties) Buddhists
 * Propose merging Category:Later Zhou Buddhist monks‎ (1 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Later Zhou Buddhists‎
 * Propose merging Category:Min (Ten Kingdoms) Buddhist monks‎ (2 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Min (Ten Kingdoms) Buddhists‎
 * Propose merging Category:Wuyue Buddhist monks‎ (2 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Wuyue Buddhists
 * Propose merging Category:Yan (Five Dynasties period) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P) to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Buddhist monks and Category:Yan (Five Dynasties period) Buddhists‎
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:NARROWCAT, very detailed categorization by religion, occupation, and parallel kingdoms/dynasties in a relatively short period. The Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms lasted from 907 to 960. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge all per nom for now without prejudice. Glad my suggestion some time ago is taken up. NLeeuw (talk) 09:10, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Socialists by occupation
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:17, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Socialists by occupation to Category:Socialists
 * Nominator's rationale: I'm not sure how helpful it is to have a socialists by occupation category. Mason (talk) 04:49, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge, redundant category layer with only three subcategories. I also wonder whether we should keep two of the three subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional chimney sweepers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 23%23Category:Fictional chimney sweepers

Category:19th-century Tasmanian architects
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:18, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose splitting Category:19th-century Tasmanian architects to Category:Tasmanian architects and Category:19th-century Australian architects
 * Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge this isolated category Mason (talk) 04:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of Lithuania (1569–1795)
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 01:20, 21 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:History of Lithuania (1569–1795) to Category:Early modern history of Lithuania
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, the two categories cover nearly the same period. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:55, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 19:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose - early modern age in Lithuania according to my knowledge starts a century before 1569 (if we take 1453 as the starting year of early modern age). Seems a bit much to make out those to be identical.--&#43;JMJ+ (talk) 22:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Around 1500 is most often mentioned as the start of the early modern age and articles about the period between 1500 and 1569 can still be put in the early modern category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:54, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Agree with Marco. "1453" is a bit arbitrary, as it takes the fall of Constantinople as the measure of world history, instead of a rather minor event that was bound to happen to a Byzantine Empire in terminal decay for centuries. "1500" may also be arbitrary as a random round number, but at least it does not assign an arbitrary value of significance to any event, and it has been a commonly used convention in historiography. For Lithuania, of course, 1569 is much more significant, but given that we've already got 2 categories and it doesn't make sense to create separate categories for 1500 to 1568, and 1796 to 1799. NLeeuw (talk) 06:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:PAW Patrol (franchise)
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge as per nom. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:PAW Patrol (franchise) to Category:PAW Patrol
 * Nominator's rationale: Uncategorized duplicate category. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The TV series (currently at Category:PAW Patrol), and the franchise are not the same thing. See also Talk:PAW_Patrol. Gonnym (talk) 06:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge both into Category:PAW Patrol - This situation reminds me of similar franchises like Category:SpongeBob SquarePants and Category:Avatar: The Last Airbender. This way, there is also reasonably enough articles for a category. (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:22, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: I will note that Category:PAW Patrol is the originally-proposed merge target. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge or reverse merge, too little content for two categories. Technical note, if it is going to be a downmerge then parent categories have to be added to the target manually. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:41, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge both into Category:PAW Patrol - splitting hairs, no need for this. --  P 1 9 9  ✉ 01:15, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the League of Women Voters
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 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 02:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Members of the League of Women Voters to Category:American suffragists
 * Nominator's rationale: Simple membership in the League of Women Voters is non-defining. User:Namiba 15:29, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Thoughts on renaming and purging? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Many siblings contain (just) activists, which is much more defining than membership. We might rename and purge this one as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Lean towards merge. Given that it's not very defining by itself. Mason (talk) 00:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose given that both nominee and target are very large categories, and no navigational value seems to be served by throwing them together. NLeeuw (talk) 19:35, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Coke Studio (franchise)
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 01:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Coke Studio. (non-admin closure)  Toadette Edit! 18:24, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Coke Studio (franchise) to Category:Coke Studio
 * Nominator's rationale: Probably unnecessary disambiguation. This is missing a parent article about the franchise as a whole, or the original Brazilian series. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:54, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Category:Coke Studio (the proposed rename target) exists. Do you mean merge?<span id="HouseBlaster:1718144892716:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2024_June_4" class="FTTCmt"> House Blaster  (talk · he/they) 22:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, please merge. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 00:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge or reverse merge, it is unclear why these two categories exist next to each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:45, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Character songs
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Toadette Edit! 18:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting character songs
 * Nominator's rationale: Category hardly has any entries, with Megalovania being more of a theme song than "sung by the voice actor", of which there is none. The current category members could be merged to parent categories if they aren't in them already. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, only one of the two non-main articles is about something that actually belongs. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:27, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.