Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 22

 &lt; May 21 May 23 &gt;

Category:First-person video games

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 23:05, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting first-person video games
 * Nominator's rationale: Unlike the other category I nominated for deletion (Video games using procedural generation) this category sincerely deserves to go. Firstly, it's not much defining trait for all video games as a whole (more defining for shooters and some adventure games). Secondly, it does not include every single title that is first-person (such as Subnatica or Baldi's Basics isn't there). In conclusion, this category just doesn't work and more importantly does not list every single First-Person Game. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 23:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose If it doesn't include every single first-person video game, that means you should Populate the category, not Delete it. It has a main article, it has subcategories, and all of these appear to be WP:DEFINING. Go ahead and put Subnatica and Baldi's Basics in the category, that seems a good idea. Good day. NLeeuw (talk) 04:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose No valid reason to delete. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 03:01, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Imperial China by religion

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 22:28, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Imperial China by religion to Category:People from Imperial China
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Mason (talk) 12:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Orientls (talk) 18:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Upmerge for now without prejudice per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 20:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I have reopened this per a request from Marcocapelle (I had originally closed as merge). I will let him elaborate on his reasoning. House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 22:56, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I am withdrawing this nomination after User:Yinweiaiqing has populated the category on May 24th. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:21, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Good work by them! Reversing my vote to keep. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Changing my vote to Keep. Compliments to Yinweiaiqing. I do Recommend a follow-up for upmerging some of the lowest-level roots of this tree. There are dozens of underpopulated categories (1 to 4 items each).
 * The Category:Taoists from Imperial China tree has these, for example:
 * Category:Southern Tang Taoists 2P
 * Category:Jin (Later Tang precursor) Taoists 1P
 * Category:Min Kingdom Taoists 4P
 * Category:Jin dynasty (1115–1234) Taoists 2P
 * Category:Sui dynasty Taoists 3P
 * Category:Northern Wei Taoists 3P
 * Category:Northern Zhou Taoists 1P
 * Category:Eastern Wu Taoists 1P
 * Category:Sixteen Kingdoms Taoists (redundant layer) & Category:Cheng Han Taoists 1P
 * Category:Ming dynasty overseer of rituals 1P
 * Other examples include:
 * Category:Heavenly kings of Taiping 2P
 * Category:Former Shu Buddhist monks‎ (1 P)
 * Category:Later Han (Five Dynasties) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P)
 * Category:Later Jin (Five Dynasties) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P)
 * Category:Later Zhou Buddhist monks‎ (1 P)
 * Category:Min (Ten Kingdoms) Buddhist monks‎ (2 P)
 * Category:Wuyue Buddhist monks‎ (2 P)
 * Category:Yan (Five Dynasties period) Buddhist monks‎ (1 P)
 * Etc. NLeeuw (talk) 12:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm change my vote to soft keep, however, I am skeptical that @Yinweiaiqing will further populate the categories. I've made repeated requests for them to do so for other categories on their talk page. Please, Yinweiaiqing do go back through your created categories because you have made A LOT of categories that are still underpopulated. Mason (talk) 20:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Companies based in Williston

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting companies based in williston
 * Nominator's rationale: Single-entry microcategory for a small town. Categories like this do not automatically need to exist for every place that has one company based there, and should wait until there are five or six companies to file in it. For added bonus, the article filed here was left duplicate-filed in both the and  parents alongside this, so no upmerging is even needed because it's already in both of the potential upmerge targets. Bearcat (talk) 17:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Manufacturing companies based in West Fargo, North Dakota
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 30%23Category:Manufacturing companies based in West Fargo, North Dakota

Category:Natural death while driving

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting natural death while driving
 * Nominator's rationale: Category for a non-defining characteristic. We certainly have some categories for the cause of people's deaths, but we do not have any scheme of categorizing people for tangential circumstances around their deaths, such as what otherwise unrelated thing they happened to be doing at the time. So if driving a car wasn't the cause of their death (e.g. in a car accident), then the relationship between death and driving is not a category-worthy characteristic. It's also not at all applicable to one of the two people filed here — Grace Kelly survived both the initial brain hemorrhage and her car going over a cliff, and died only the next day of a second cerebral hemorrhage that she suffered in the hospital after having been diagnosed with a good chance of surviving the first one. So she clearly didn't die while driving, and the category wouldn't belong on her even if it were defining for anybody else. (To be fair, I will grant that most people probably "remember" her death as being caused by the car accident itself, rather than all the nuances, but "correcting popular misconceptions" is not what categories are for.) Bearcat (talk) 17:07, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Strong delete per nom. Well-argued, I completely agree with the rationale here. We could create all sorts of interesting categories like Natural death while watching television, Natural death while reading the newspaper in the dentist's waiting room or Natural death while walking the dog around the block, but this is all WP:NONDEFINING. NLeeuw (talk) 18:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Agree with Nwleeuw that Bearcat makes a really good case. Mason (talk) 23:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Gjs238 (talk) 00:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:South Park episodes featuring video game consoles

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting south park episodes featuring video game consoles
 * Nominator's rationale: Category for a non-defining characteristic. We do not have any scheme of "[Series] episodes featuring [minor plot point]" categories for this to be a part of, and the episodes are not defined by having video game consoles in them as plot points. Bearcat (talk) 17:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Mason (talk) 12:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete as this is a non-defining characteristic. Let&#39;srun (talk) 03:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Chicago and North Western Railroad municipalities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting chicago and north western railroad municipalities
 * Nominator's rationale: Single-entry category for a non-defining characteristic. Wikipedia does not have any established scheme of categorizing populated places for the railway lines that happen to pass through them, and one small village of just 1,500 people does not need special treatment over and above all the other towns and cities in the world that are located on railway lines but not categorized for that. Bearcat (talk) 16:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Macedonian people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Keep * Pppery * it has begun... 22:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Macedonian people to Category:People from North Macedonia
 * Nominator's rationale: Per MOS:MAC categories should avoid adjectival use altogether. The use of neutral formulations such as "of North Macedonia", "in North Macedonia," etc. is preferred. Although most nationality categories are named 'Fooinan people', there are already several exceptions: Category:People from Georgia (country), Category:People from Northern Ireland, Category:People from the State of Palestine, as well as almost all subcategories in Category:People by former country and about half of those in Category:People by dependent territory. Aldij (talk) 16:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose The 2018 Prespa Agreement stipulated in Article 1. Section 3.b: The nationality of the Second Party shall be Macedonian/citizen of the Republic of North Macedonia, as it will be registered in all travel documents. This is one of the compromises with binding legal effect: the country is called North Macedonia, but its nationals are called Macedonians. Therefore, we should not divergence from the Fooian people naming scheme for categories in the Category:People by nationality tree. NLeeuw (talk) 18:32, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not needed to distinguish from Category:Ethnic Macedonian people, for Macedonians (ethnic group); most entries in Category:People by country use the same construct; and according to MOS:MAC: The nationality of citizens of North Macedonia should still be referred to as "Macedonian.". –Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:59, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:UK MPs 2019–present
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename as already done * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 22:51, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:UK MPs 2019–present to Category:UK MPs 2019–2024
 * Nominator's rationale: A general election has just been announced and Parliament will be dissolved by the end of the week. --Ferien (talk) 16:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Alt proposal: speedy rename to Category:MPs elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election per WP:C2D List of MPs elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election. This makes sense and prevents us from having to rename categories continuously whenever Parliament is dissolved. NLeeuw (talk) 20:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * , it's a bit misleading to call the category "MPs elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election" when 23 of the MPs were elected in by-elections instead. 2019–2024 describes the Parliament the MPs are sitting in and for this reason, I'm not entirely sure the title of that article is ideal for covering by-elections, although that is a discussion for another forum. Part of me wants to say sort by Parliament and call this one UK MPs of 58th Parliament or something similar, but would that be familiar enough for readers?.. I'm not sure. --Ferien (talk) 21:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair. NLeeuw (talk) 21:37, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Stick with the original proposal (2019-2024). It's not perfect but it's the best option (and would be consistent with other similar categories). OGBC1992 (talk) 14:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Argh, whoops, I already created Category:Lists of UK MPs 2019–2024 before I found this rename. Let's just speedy it. James F. (talk) 17:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ James F. (talk) 17:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Canadian families by ancestry‎
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:African-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of African ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:American-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of American ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:British-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of British ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:English-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of English ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:Scottish-Canadian families‎ to Category:Canadian families of Scottish ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:French-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of French ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:Irish-Canadian families to Category:Canadian families of Irish ancestry
 * Nominator's rationale: Standard for tree. Aldij (talk) 16:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Russian families by ancestry‎
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Russian families of Avar origin to Category:Russian families of Avar ancestry
 * Propose renaming Category:Russian families of Scottish origin‎ to Category:Russian families of Scottish ancestry
 * Nominator's rationale: Standard for tree. Aldij (talk) 15:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:59, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Turkmenistan-women-footy-bio-stub
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting


 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary stub template. Wikipedia does not have any standard practice of segregating male and female footballers with separate stub templates or categories -- stub is a temporary maintenance state of the article, not a core characteristic of the subject, so the stub category system does not always need to be as precisely trait-sorted as main permanent content categories are. (See e.g. actors and actresses, who are gender-sorted in main content categories but share one common stub category rather than being gender-sorted in that tree.) So we just tag women and men with the same "Country-footy-bio-stub" tag, and I can't find any other country where male and female footballers have separate stub tags or categories from each other. Yet this was newly created within the past week, for just one person whose article wasn't even a stub in the first place and thus wouldn't even have needed the already-existing Turkmenistan-footy-bio-stub anyway, and tried to file her in a redlinked stub category that doesn't exist to have people filed in it but could not have been created for less than 60 people either — so the only alternative would have been to replace it with the same category that the other template is already using, thus vitiating any reason why two separate templates would have been needed even if the article had been a stub. Bearcat (talk) 15:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:05, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:European families of Irish ancestry
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:European families of English ancestry to Category:Families of English ancestry
 * Propose merging Category:European families of Irish ancestry to Category:Families of Irish ancestry
 * Nominator's rationale: There is no need for separate categories for European nationalities. Aldij (talk) 13:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian royals in British Indian Army
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 30%23Category:Indian royals in British Indian Army

Category:Asian families by ancestry
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Asian families by ancestry to Category:Families of Asian ancestry
 * Nominator's rationale: Matching actual content, subcategories contain only families of Asian ancestry, but not exclusively from Asian countries. Aldij (talk) 09:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename, per actual content, as reflected in the names of the subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:European families by ancestry
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:European families by ancestry to Category:Families of European ancestry
 * Nominator's rationale: Matching actual content, subcategories contain only families of European ancestry, but not exclusively from European countries. Aldij (talk) 09:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename, per actual content, as reflected in the names of the subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Canne de combat competitions
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge both to Category:Stick-fighting. (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Canne de combat competitions to Category:Canne de combat
 * Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only two pages in the full Canne de combat tree, which isn't helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 05:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge both to Category:Stick-fighting, effectively per nom's rationale. I will tag Category:Canne de combat too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, thanks! Mason (talk) 11:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Lenape
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:49, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:American people of Lenni Lenape descent to American people of Lenape descent
 * Rename Category:People of Lenni Lanape descent to Category:People of Lenape descent
 * Nominator's rationale For the purposes of consistency and concision, move to simply "Lenape". Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 04:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support per article title Lenape. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support - per nom as pointed out by @Marcocapelle. -- A Rose Wolf  15:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Lenni means "people", so "people of people" is redundant. Yuchitown (talk) 04:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Orientls (talk) 09:56, 24 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:French mixed martial artists of Black African descent
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose splitting Category:French mixed martial artists of Black African descent to Category:French mixed martial artists and Category:Black French sportspeople
 * Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge. There's no other althetic category like this in Black French sportspeople. I don't think that this category passes EGRS. If kept, this category needs to be renamed to either Black French mixed martial artists or French mixed martial artists of African descent, to be consistent with other descent categories. Mason (talk) 02:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Dual merge, trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Involving former countries or by former country involved
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 13:47, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Option A: X involving former countries
 * Example: Category:Wars involving former countries.
 * Example: Category:Civil wars in former countries
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of wars by former country to Category:Lists of wars involving former countries (child of Category:Wars involving former countries and Category:Lists of wars by country involved)
 * Propose renaming Category:Wars of the Middle Ages by former country to Category:Wars of the Middle Ages involving former countries (child of Category:Wars involving former countries)
 * Propose renaming Category:Battles by former country involved to Category:Battles involving former countries (child of Category:Battles by country involved)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sieges by former country involved to Category:Sieges involving former countries (child of Category:Sieges by country involved and Category:Battles involving former countries)
 * Propose creating Category:Lists of battles involving former countries (as a child of Category:Battles involving former countries and Category:Lists of battles by country involved)


 * Option B: X by former country involved
 * Example: Category:Battles by former country involved
 * Example: Category:Sieges by former country involved
 * Propose renaming Category:Wars involving former countries to Category:Wars by former country involved
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of wars by former country to Category:Lists of wars by former country involved
 * Propose renaming Category:Wars of the Middle Ages by former country to Category:Wars of the Middle Ages by former country involved
 * Propose creating Category:Lists of battles by former country involved (as a child of Category:Battles by former country involved and Category:Lists of battles by country involved)


 * Intro: This is a preliminary discussion. This issue traces back to 8 years ago, when Wars involving former countries in March 2016 and Battles by former country in December 2016 were created, apparently independent of each other. I've recently initiated a push for adding the word "involved" to the latter type of catnames to avoid confusion with "battles *in* Fooland" (see Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 4 and WP:MILMOS). There are 2 options to resolve this inconsistency:


 * Option A rationale: This has my strong preference, as it is shorter and unambiguous. E.g. "Sieges by former country involved" might suggest it means a country that was formerly involved in a siege. Imagine how Fooian and Barian soldiers were besieging city X, but then the Barian army decided to give up and go home, while the Fooians maintained the siege. An editor might think: "Ah, that's a siege formerly involving Bar!", even if Bar is a country that still exists today rather than a former country. That's the kind of confusion we should prevent. A disadvantage is that we'll get a slightly odd tree where "involving former countries" will become children of "by country involved", as is already the case with Category:Wars involving former countries). And it might be silly to rename the parents to something like Category:Wars involving countries, as the vast majority of wars involves countries rather than non-state actors (rebel groups, mercenaries etc.). But that slight inconsistency doesn't weigh up to the clarity and brevity of "former countries". We can decide that this is an important naming convention to be followed (thus falling under WP:C2B in future cases).


 * Option B rationale: This is the alternative, sticking to the "by country involved" formula that is currently being adopted for cats involving countries that still exist today. (I actually initiated that process myself some days ago before realising it might pose problems for former countries). The main advantage is consistency through the entire tree, something that can fall under WP:C2C in future cases. However, the disadvantages outlined above about it being longer and especially being ambiguous about "countries formerly involved" lead me to conclude this option should not be our preference. I can pretty much guarantee that with ongoing wars, editors are going to miscategorise countries that still exist today as having pulled out of the ongoing war as a "former country involved" (a good reason why that category in particular is already named "wars involving former countries" instead, preventing exactly this kind of confusion from happening, even if the creator might not have had that conscious intention when picking a catname). But I'm putting it up for consideration by the community, because it is a serious alternative.


 * PS: I haven't tagged any categories yet. I prefer to have this preliminary discussion first before tagging the relevant categories with a proposed new name, otherwise I would have to be tagging all of them both ways, and that's not very helpful for everyone's understanding. When this discussion has a clear result for A or B, I'll tag the relevant categories accordingly and ping all participants for a follow-up to confirm. NLeeuw (talk) 02:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I will happily support a proposal that improves consistency in the tree but I do not have a preference between A and B. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment To rename Category:Wars by country involved to Category:Wars involving countries might not be such a 'silly' idea on closer inspection. Parent Category:Wars by belligerent party and especially grandparent Category:Military operations by belligerent party suggest plenty of non-state actors or supranational actors such as the UN, African Union, EU or interstate military alliances (Warsaw Pact, NATO) as belligerent parties. To assume that countries or "nation-states" are the default type of belligerent party is perhaps a modern bias. There have been plenty of wars without "countries" as belligerent parties. Adopting "involving countries" instead of "by country involved" throughout the entire tree, including for countries that still exist today, would solve both the inconsistencies and the ambiguities. What do you think, @Marcocapelle? NLeeuw (talk) 06:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * PS: Siblings could include Category:Battles involving peoples, with children such as Category:Battles by ancient peoples and Category:Battles involving Turkic peoples (the "Turkic" part is questionable per WP:NONDEFINING, but that's a follow-up question). They are now often in the "by country involved" tree, but peoples aren't "countries". I put some of them in the Category:Military operations by belligerent party for now, but they should probably have a separate tree. NLeeuw (talk) 06:47, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * In principle that is a very fair point (I also remember Sikh warriors collectively existing long before there was a Sikh nation state) but I am not sure how that relates to the choice between A and B. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, because it makes option B irrelevant. We would be changing the rest of the tree to be consistent with Category:Wars involving former countries; not just downwards (as proposed by Option A), but also upwards, by renaming Category:Wars by country involved to Category:Wars involving countries, and Category:Battles by country involved to Category:Battles involving countries. NLeeuw (talk) 14:22, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I recently had a good discussion with Mellk about how to categorise battles in the Russian Civil War by belligerent, especially the so-called White movement or White Army, which is a catch-all term for a wide variety of disparate groups formations and units. We agreed that they often weren't de jure or de facto connected to any "state" (just a few unrecognised proto-states such as South Russia (1919–1920) and the Russian State (1918-1920)). Categories like Category:Battles involving the Volunteer Army and Category:Battles involving the Armed Forces of South Russia probably do not belong in the battles by (former) country / battles involving (former) countries tree, like Category:Battles involving Russia. They were belligerent parties, but not as "countries". By letting the "by country involved" formula go as the default standard, we can also better organise such categories in trees for non-state belligerent parties. NLeeuw (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've WP:BOLDly created Category:Battles involving peoples as an example. We could do the same with countries, and with wars, throughout the entire tree. It's basically Option A, but both downwards and upwards instead of only downwards (namely, only for countries that no longer exist). NLeeuw (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle Do you understand what I'm saying? And do you agree with it? NLeeuw (talk) 06:05, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I certainly agree with Category:Battles involving peoples. The Huns is a very well-known example. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Alright, then I know how to formulate the follow-up discussion, and am ready to close this one. NLeeuw (talk) 08:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Withdraw as nom. The preliminary discussion was helpful for figuring out the most reasonable and workable solution to the identified issues. I can now formulate a follow-up discussion that will tag the relevant categories accordingly. NLeeuw (talk) 08:16, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle Could you perhaps non-admin close this one as Withdrawn, so that we can proceed with the follow-up at Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 25? Thanks in advance! NLeeuw (talk) 13:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sexual-related controversies in film
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Purge and rename * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 22:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Propose purging category
 * Nominator's rationale: Purge of articles about individual films per Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 3 and other such discussions on that day's page. House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 00:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Purge per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 02:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Purge per nom. Also, shouldn't it become noun-related, i.e. sex-related or sexuality-related? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * how would you feel about a rename to Category:Sex-related controversies in film (in addition to purging)?<span id="HouseBlaster:1716692189868:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2024_May_22" class="FTTCmt"> House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Seems fine, as long as it is clear that sex as activity rather than biological sex is meant? Alternately, "sexuality-related" might also cut it. NLeeuw (talk) 05:31, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * NLeeuw has a good point, sex is ambiguous so sexuality will do a better job. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I was going to say that "sexuality-related" implies LGB-related (not so much T), but our article sexuality is clearly about sex more broadly. Therefore, support rename to Category:Sexuality-related controversies in film (in addition to purging) per NL and in the spirit of WP:NWFCTM.<span id="HouseBlaster:1717037839319:WikipediaFTTCLNCategories_for_discussion/Log/2024_May_22" class="FTTCmt"> House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 02:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sex scandals in French cinema
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:49, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting sex scandals in french cinema
 * Nominator's rationale: I would say that this needs to be purged of individual films (and people, who are for some reason in this category) à la Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 3, but that would leave this as a single-member category (containing Roman Polanski sexual abuse case). Delete, and manually add Roman Polanski sexual abuse case to Category:Sexual-related controversies in film. House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 00:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:13, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. I initially read this as "Sex scandals in French cinemas." But that's a very different scope. I'm kind of disappointed now... NLeeuw (talk) 02:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.