Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2019 January 27

27 January 2019

 * Bengal cat ([ history] · [ last edit] · rewrite) from https://www.petmd.com/cat/breeds/c_ct_bengal http://cfa.org/breeds/breedsab/bengal.aspx https://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/20/nyregion/the-pet-cat-that-evokes-the-leopard.html. TheMesquito  buzz  02:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Multiple issues on this page, see here for the multiple issues found on this page. TheMesquito  buzz  02:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello I am happy to help. Regarding the copyright issues. I believe the issues can be corrected. However the page has been taken down and reverted. Regarding the cited material - I can remove it. However: this link is the breed standard for the CFA-relevant to the page/topic and properly used and cited. Please tell me how to proceed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lubbad85 (talk • contribs) 03:57, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi, TheMesquito, I'm glad you checked the text. The copyvio detector report you linked shows at least four specific paragraphs which were lifted nearly wholesale from a mypetMD page.  – Athaenara  ✉  04:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Article cleaned by investigator or others. No remaining infringement. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:47, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I think you are correct. I used "block-quotes for several of the above mentioned paragraphs, however that apparently does not excuse it. I will need to rework those areas


 * I can erase/redo
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 04:20, 27 January 2019 (UTC)).


 * I have uploaded the project here and will work on it along with other contributors. I have begun the clean up. Thank you
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bengal_cat/Temp#Bengals_as_a_breed
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 04:34, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

Apart from the obvious copyright issues that have been outlined which I am in complete agreement with, Valid and Factual sources were removed by Lubbad85 with reasons such as' information being sourced by Bengal breeders' and 'Personal Blogs' only for the same editor (Lubbad85) to add information given by Bengal breeders on a personal blog ( https://cats.lovetoknow.com/cat-expert-interviews/japanese-bobtail-cat-breeder-interview which was written by the Bengal breeder (http://belrouge.com/)

Example being sources such as https://www.petmd.com/cat/breeds/c_ct_bengal which has been near copied over from.

Example - https://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/ which has also been added (private company who asks for a $59 fee for advice), which has thinly added content and information on the Bengal Cat breed

Example - https://www.bengalsillustrated.com/ Which has articles written by the founders and could come under a 'Primary source' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary )

Example - http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2018/11/16/couples-bengal-cats-denied-entry-hawaii/ Hawwai news is a reliable source ?

The Bengal Cat wiki page had credible links and information which have now been removed and sources added that are clearly similar and copy pasted from websites that are guilty of being the same 'type' of websites that the editor gave the reason for the original sources removal.

I'm certain Lubbad85 is not vandalizing the page, however removal of information and links for sources that have been contributed to over the last 10 years + that still remain relevant today for reasons given but replaced with same or lesser informative websites!

I am not a wiki-expert so apologies if I am contributing to this incorrectly, but these are my genuine thoughts.

I really do believe the edit from yourself @Athaenara on 23:39, 25 January 2019 was the correct one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7f:1480:fe00:8d9b:2fab:58d7:dd47 (talk) 04:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello again: please sign your posts: Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes
 * we should all know who we are talking to.
 * The previous version cited blogs and breeder web sites - not primary sources. For instance AuroraLights cattery was quoted several times. Regarding catteries: there is no empirical method used when creating a web site for a a cattery. In other multiple areas administrators had posted (citation needed)


 * And as I have stated this page revert was NOT the opinion of Athaenara- she has stated that in her talk page she "over-reacted" in deleting another page about the New Zealand Cat Fancy.


 * My efforts on wikipedia (as evidenced by my many contributions) are to improve the pages and reference the pages properly-also upload photographs which are relevant to wikimedia commons for the whole community to use. If there is some information that I have removed or changed that is relevant and can be referenced, Wikipedia will have no objections to the addition on the Bengal Cat page.


 * On the previous version I will illustrate two areas that were changed
 * One area about HCM stated that "There is a lot of controversy over whether to screen for this disease or not, and it seems the breed has a very large divide, with about half of the breeders screening, and the other half not." There was no reference for this information. It is opinion and conjecture.


 * In anther section regarding Blood Type, the study was referenced but misquoted. I corrected the section to reflect the actual study results


 * These are just two examples but there are many more. I agree that the changes were extensive, but I would argue they were needed to make the page encyclopedic and scholarly. I encourage all to help correct and maintain the page.


 * What this situation is about now - is several the sources i found were "overquoted" or I used too much material - however it was not improperly cited - or plagiarized. I have not quoted any breeder catteries, or blogs, and I have tried to use news, and primary sources when available. Believe me this takes more time than anyone should spend on a project. It is being corrected at the moment. I am giving my best effort, and I believe I have removed the offending "overquuoting" Please check it out.
 * All my best
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 05:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC))


 * Hello again
 * I am removing those sources that you have raised objections to now. Thank you for the information. It was quite laborious hunting down references, which is probably why it was so poorly referenced before this time.
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 05:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC))


 * Regarding the Bengalsillustrated HCm reference: Mark D. Kittleson, DVM, PhD is a renown HCM researched, and I will locate a better reference for his recommendation
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 05:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

@Lubbad85 Thank you for taking the time to explain your reasons, Looking through, may I ask you why you removed a reference to the Bengal cat liking water from a website which is entirely dedicated to the breed and explaining in more detail about that reference (Bengal cat and water) (http://www.bengalcat.co.uk/character.htm) with a similar website with less information on the subject and coming from a website that generalizes all breeds with thin and not terribly accurate content ?

and another here http://www.bengalcat.co.uk/asian-leopard-cat.htm that was used as a valid and useful reference on information on the 'journey'From Asian Leopard Cat to Bengal

I would very much appreciate it if you could re-add that website as a reference for that material as it has been for many years and explains both sets of information in great detail.

I am continuing to look through and will update anything else I may contribute with as I do not wish to 'overwrite' anything you are working on right now.

Thank you for the work you are adding to this page, as I can see you are trying to help and not being a vandal of any kind...I also have the page's best interest at heart (as you do). 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 05:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes - I think once the offending copyright issues are addressed the admins will put the page back online. And then much more work will be needed to get the page up to Encyclopedic standards. The references you pointed out were poor ones, and I am sure I used some as a placeholder. But it was not for lack of trying to improve. Hopefully, it will resolve. It seemed that not many Wikipedians edited the page. And it had nearly all the Breed standard PDF's mis-referenced. and there was no mention of CFA, and as I said, quoting pages of breeder catteries and conjecture with false estimates. My hope is that we can work together to make this page a primary source.
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 06:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

I sincerely hope we can Lubbad85,I was just concerned that (some) valid informative websites were being removed in place of lesser sources. A lot of the work you have added are good changes and I understand the complications.

I can edit, remove and replace some sources myself if it would be easier (the ones I truly believe did not need to be removed and replaced with poor sources). 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 06:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello
 * I think this one: https://www.bengalcat.co.uk/bengal-cat-character/ I cannot see how it is a proper reference. It is without author and seems to be a cat sale site. The information is all opinion and possibly lifted from other breeder sites. this is from the same site:  https://www.bengalcat.co.uk/asian-leopard-cat/  '
 * Maybe the admins could weigh in on those two.
 * (Lubbad85 (talk) 06:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

It is absolutely not information that had been lifted from other breeder sites, in fact after looking into it, this website has it's contents copied to other websites, it is a website referenced by the BBC and the Daily Telegraph and goes back much further which proves it's originality (check way back when machine as I just did), it is not a "cat sale site" it provides potential Bengal cat owners with a list of Trusted pedigree registered breeders...and you really believe this website gives more accurate information on the subject? - https://www.adventurecats.org/pawsome-reads/9-cat-breeds-that-love-water/ it's a website with 'general' information on the breed, thin information on the subject and actually giving false information and seems to be a merchandise selling site. (referencing "some states consider them an exotic breed and forbid residents from owning them - f4 and onwards Bengals!.") (Admins please check) 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 06:55, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

I also see you removed the source to http://www.bengalcat.com/aboutbengals/bengal.php ! .....do you feel that the International Bengal Cat Society is also not a reliable source?

It seems you are removing some websites which include some very detailed AND valuable information on the breed. 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 07:09, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Another removed by you - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/1437/schedule/made Lubbad85 this is a Confirmed UK Government website listing The Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 (Modification) Order 2007 which needed to be written about due to it's important explanation on when The UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, DEFRA, removed the previous licensing requirements for the keeping of Bengal cats in the United Kingdom in 2007 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 07:20, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:8D9B:2FAB:58D7:DD47 (talk) 07:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC) I am not wishing to be difficult in any way but those websites I mentioned above provide absolutely valuable information on the breed and I feel did not need to be removed (especially with what they were replaced with!)

That is all I disagree with as far as I can tell.

I’m sure we can get this sorted out. Getting the proper sources in order, that’s the main problem at this moment. The page wasn’t under administrative scrutiny until they had cars to examine the New Zealand cat fancy page and delete it. Now they’re looking at the whole thing with fresh eyes. (Lubbad85 (talk) 06:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

There are some sites in question that may be referenced by other sources. However those sites may not be considered encyclopedic. Generally we need an author, and verifiable sources. A few of those sites there’s no way to Determine where the information is from. As you pointed out I also had trouble finding some information and so used the same type of websites in some cases. This is the opportunity to make the whole thing encyclopedic and bulletproof (Lubbad85 (talk) 06:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

Lubbad85 Due to the nature of this particular breed and how relatively new it is (compared to most other breeds), finding what you look for in terms of "encyclopedic and bulletproof" references are simply not found in the way they may usually be..the websites I listed above (such as www.bengalcat.co.uk) are written by people who actually had experience with the breed and were part of the Bengal community when the breed was at it's earliest stages and were in contact with the founders, for example, they are actually linked to and used as reference for others all over the world by a mixture of registered bengal breeders who wish to educate those looking for information on the breed, BBC News, Major National Daily Telegraph, both of which are Highly trusted sources. Britannica.com also lists the website (https://kids.britannica.com/students/search/iguide?query=cat&includeLevelTwo=1&page=2). @Lubbad85 Please see here as to the contributors to these VERY important articles which have helped many people for over 20 years (website was live from 1997) - https://web.archive.org/web/20040209050408/http://www.bengalcat.co.uk/credits.htm. All major websites who wish to find information on the Bengal cat, use the information from the sources such as this..why remove it to replace with websites who are simply re-hashing same content, in a less informative way?

I still do not understand fully why you also removed important and valuable information from the International Bengal Cat Society website and a UK gov website when used as a reference to the explanation on when The UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, DEFRA, removed the previous licensing requirements for the keeping of Bengal cats in the United Kingdom in 2007.

@Lubbad85 The time you have taken to help the page although has helped in certain sections I fear have also actually hindered it too and I really feel those sources should be replaced back into the page for others to benefit from them. (apologies it seems I have been signing at the start of my post, I shall sign at the end as advised) 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:D9B0:7636:ADE2:1D16 (talk) 21:34, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I spent the majority of the day cleaning up the draft of the article and removing the improper and overused references. We await a review of the material.

Finding the "valuable" information that you spoke about can be done. I did manage to find an amazing amount of credible-source information. I also had to change a few references. Same information but better references. Like the Willard Centerwall reference. The original link was a dead hot-link

I erased all questionable or hard to validate sites. ie. petmd, CFA, etc. and I erased the references that you and rightly pointed to as questionable - like Hawaii News etc. In most cases I retained the information with a ''News. a journal, or other credible .edu or government source''.

Also: I went back to see why the reference to : The UK Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, DEFRA was removed. As a reader I was confused by the addition of this...So I learned from reading your thoughts on my talk page. My opinion was originally the reference was just hanging out there like an unexplained reference. I added an introduction/explanation to this version which improves readability.

Format of some of the areas in PK Def, In PRA-B and in HCM were were clearly opinions - so I did my best to clean those up.

I also carefully examined the sources of "bengalcat.co and other similar sites. My opinion is there is no way to validate their information. The site has no editors, No references, no article creation dates, no authors of articles. I have no doubt the many sites have great information, I am just not sure it meets the rigid academic standards of Wikipedia. We can work together to improve the readability of the article as well.

TIBCS is a useable source when we can find authors and article creation information. In most cases we can see their authors and they have a publication. It is not anonymous. I do have TIBCS quoted twice in the article draft. Citation 11 and 13. Each one has an author and relevant dates etc.

Below is the edited version. Each section has a large heading just for the purposes of page creation (we can remove those later). I went through each section and cleaned up the references. Have a look - especially at the references.

I would like to ask the admins to look over the page as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bengal_cat/Temp#Bengals_as_a_breed

All my best! (Lubbad85 (talk) 01:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC))

Good morning I am hoping that someone can check out the page edits. I am hoping to get the "Bengal Cat" page up soon. The edits are posted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bengal_cat/Temp#Bengals_as_a_breed

I ran a Copyvios report. Please tell me if there are any more steps in the process.

All my best Lubbad85 (talk) 12:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

@Lubbad85 Thank you for working with me on multiple concerns I had, although we can agree to disagree with one particular website (bengalcat.co.uk I have provided 100% proof as to the originality of the articles), I'm happy with the majority of the changes and it seems to have now made an improvement to the Bengal Cat page overall. I did not want to make any changes to what you worked on, as I truly did not wish to cause some type of edit war, instead discussing it here with you in a mature way was far better in my opinion.

I completely respect all those who put their free time into helping others and although I have no experience at all with wiki (I'm very passionate on this particular subject), I will now look into learning how to contribute to pages I feel I could possibly help with too.

@Lubbad85 I see you have been a Bengal breeder for a relatively short amount of time yourself (2012) and that gives me confidence in your objective. The pictures you added to the wiki page of your Bengal cats are truly beautiful.

Thanks again for listening to my concerns and the time you placed into the article. 2A02:C7F:1480:FE00:682E:7CBD:DFA:BC5C (talk) 20:27, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Iglesia de San Pedro Mártir (Calatayud) ([ history] · [ last edit] · rewrite) from http://www.calatayud.org/enciclopedia/spedro_martir.htm. FAR (talk) 12:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Article cleaned by investigator or others. No remaining infringement. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:47, 24 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Crumpet!: A Very British Sex Symbol ([ history] · [ last edit] · rewrite) from https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0496266/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl. It is unclear to me if someone copy and pasted much of the text from the IMdB page or vice versa. Citrivescence (talk) 18:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Article cleaned by investigator or others. No remaining infringement. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 16:07, 28 July 2019 (UTC)