Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 July 28/Buried Alive Photo


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Endorse close but delete (see below). IronGargoyle 06:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a rather complex discussion, but I read over the relevant elements and did my best to disentangle it. First a brief chronological outline:


 * 1) On May 30th, Johnnyboyca uploads Image:BuriedAlive.jpg (and many other dubious images) with an obviously incorrect attribution of PD-Self. This is the "squished/cropped torso" image. Followed by quite a bit of editing back and forth regarding the copyright status of the image.
 * 2) On June 5th, Hare-Yukai uploads an edited close-up of the "squished/cropped torso" image (Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg) to question the authenticity of the image.
 * 3) Image is nominated for deletion on June 28th and then kept per this discussion on July 14th.
 * 4) June 29th, HongQiGong nominates Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg for speedy deletion as an attack page, which Hare-Yukai disputes. DrKiernan removes the speedy deletion tag and HongQiGong nominates the image for deletion at IfD, (later kept by Quadell on July 16, citing it to be in the public domain).
 * 5) Nv8200p deletes the "squished/cropped torso" revision of the image on July 14th and uploads the "normal torso" image, removing Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg.
 * 6) On July 17 Hare-Yukai puts Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg back into the image description.
 * 7) HongQiGong, Blueshirts, Hare-Yukai, and John Smith's edit-war on this issue.
 * 8) "Normal torso revision" ends up with Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg no longer in the image description with PD-China and PD-Japan licensing.
 * Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg is again nominated for deletion on IfD where it is kept by Nv8200p, again citing that the image is in the public domain.

Now, here are my thoughts: At least one of the two revisions of Image:BuriedAlive.jpg is doctored in some way. I feel fairly certain all users involved were acting in good faith and this is largely an issue of miscommunication. There are a number of possibilities that cannot be fundamentally resolved in the context of a DRV discussion: "normal torso" could be legitimate and "squished/cropped torso" could be an attempt to discredit the Nanking massacre. Alternatively, the "squished/cropped torso" could be an earlier attempt at a faked photo and the "normal torso" version could be a modern update of a fake. But, what I think is most likely is that the image is a simple copying error of an early photo folded over onto itself as Blueshirts suggests. No grand conspiracy.

Because the "normal torso" comes from what I consider a reliable source (BBC), and the "squished/cropped torso" from People’s Republic of China government websites (less reliable I would presume), I think defaulting to keep that version is wise. I also find it baffling that the group having the most to gain by promoting the authenticity of the Nanking massacre would have an image that "seems the most fake". The most simple explanation is that photograph was folded over along the vertical axis during an early version.

Because Image:Fake Photograph as BuriedAlive.jpg has served its purpose, it should be deleted, but the public domain status of Image:BuriedAlive.jpg has been previously endorsed by multiple admins and I see no convincing reason to overrule them here.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.