Wikipedia:Drawing board/Archives/2007/September

William Turnbull (ETS)
Would this man qualify for an entry in Wikipedia? He was a Princeton graduate (psychology) who was appointed VP of the Educational Testing Service in 1948. He took over as President of the ETS from 1970 to 1981 and won AERA's E.F. Lindquist Award in '81.

I haven't created an article for Wikipedia before and don't want to start by adding anything which is unwelcome. -- Analog Kid 17:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for asking. If you simply put up a stub that consists of your second through fourth sentences, it's quite likely that someone would say that there was a lack of notability.  More importantly, if you just put up a couple of sentences, and it gets deleted, you've wasted your time and the time of other editors.


 * But I think that if you wanted to do a reasonable amount of work on this, it would be fine. The goal would be to write (say) at least a couple of paragraphs, with a half-dozen or so citations. Then you'll have created something that (a) won't be challenged and (b) can be built on by others.


 * In doing a Google search, I came across this: "We end the book with William Turnbull fighting the growing criticism of ETS and eventually succumbing to the pressure." That part of Turnbull's story certainly seems worth an encylopedia article.  One place to start would be the Atlantic Monthly, June 1980 ("The Test and the Brightest"), available online only to subscribers, but certainly available via libraries (and citable as such).  (Similarly, "The Great Sorting", Atlantic Monthly, September 1995.)  For example, from that second article, "ETS therefore wound up in an odd position with respect to intelligence testing. Within the organization and its ambit there have always been pockets of belief in g as an inherited trait. Chauncey's extremely conscientious No. 2 man, William Turnbull, though not a g man, confessed in a 1963 memo to Chauncey that he harbored a "long-held conviction that 'native intelligence' has some point to it."


 * Finally, for new articles, see Your first article. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 18:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

World Gaming Center Article! 123,352 is enough users to show its noticable
And we need to make one without it being deleted —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewWGCMAN (talk • contribs) 20:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Why don't you review Notability (web) and then post (here) in what way you think this website qualifies? (I note, for the record, that an article on this topic has been deleted five times to date with the name "World Gaming Center" and an additional two times with the name "World gaming center"; one of the seven deletions included this AfD.)  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Clayton Kratz
I think that wikipedia should have a page on Clayton Kratz. I can research him and such but I would like some help. Some people who were related to him go to my church and I am pretty sure they would let me see some of his things for photo's and to ask questions and stuff. Anyone willing to help? I don't think I will be able to make a whole Wikipedia article by myself. Even if you could just edit my works daily and tell me what would be helpful to readers would be helpful to me. I really think he deserves this.  Please post on my talk page, It is Callan93 please!!!!!! Callan93 00:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm putting a note on your talk page, as requested, but I want to point out here that things that aren't accessible to the public (for example, personal stories and photos) fall under our prohibition against no original research. You can certainly use such information to inspire or guide you in your writings, but you absolutely should not cite it.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * in other words i shouldn't say who the people are or where i got the items from?Callan93 20:43, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not a matter of where information comes from (sure, you can say that, assuming whoever provides you the info is agreeable); it's a matter of whether the information was ever published.


 * Having said that, let me correct myself: Wikipedia is quite happy to have editors upload and add images (such as photographs) to articles (where appropriate) even though they haven't ever been published.  In fact, generally, being published means there is a copyright, and Wikipedia does NOT put copyrighted images into articles.  So, for example, a scanned photo of Clayton as a young man, from someone's personal photograph album, could be an excellent addition to an article.  (For more about adding images to Wikipedia, see Copyright FAQ and Image use policy.)


 * What is problematical, then, is content (words) in an article. Consider this example, "Clayton was always a risk-taker, according to several people who talked to his relatives".  If a reporter talked to Clayton's relatives, and this sentence was in a newspaper article, then it could be in the Wikipedia article.  But if you are the one who wrote that sentence, based on interviews you did, letters you read that have never been published, etc., then you are doing "original research" and that is unacceptable in Wikipedia articles.  Please (re)read that policy; if it's still not clear, please ask again.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 22:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I figured that to avoid WP:COI issues it would be best if the article, and basic facts, were created and established by someone like me, that was previously unfamiliar with the topic (as well as not associated with the Mennonite community), so I created Clayton Kratz using the online sources I could find. I think they're pretty solid, but could possibly be challenged as they're basically all from the Mennonite community, so any offline print sources that could be found would help for WP:VERIFY. The books and other published material used as refs for the Molotschna, Mennonite Central Committee, and maybe even Russian Mennonite articles seem likely candidates. Mainstream news sources would be best--one source also mentions article(s) in the Harrisonburg (VA) Daily News Record. Adding photographs and other images would contribute greatly to the article, as long as the current owners of the images understand they must be released to the public domain, or licensed under the GFDL or compatible license. Good luck. Hellosandimas 23:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nicely done. Thanks.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Science in Switzerland
I would like to start an article with this title, can anybody help? Laleena 21:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You might start by adding a section to the article Switzerland. You could also ask about other interested editors at Talk:Switzerland, or, probably better, WikiProject Switzerland.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

International credential evaluation
Text deleted - JB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.249.30 (talk) 23:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please read our policy on no original research. Basically, we want reliable sources to provide content for articles; we don't want essays by contributors.  Sorry.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:59, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Soul Broker
Soul Broker is a heavy-rock quintet formed in 2004 and based in Richmond CA. Their debut CD Soul For Sale has had moderate success and they have spent the last 3 years building a reputation for great, energetic shows filled with blues-based stoner metal coupled with a punk rock sensibility. Vocals: Mike Billings Lead Guitar: Dan Wingfield Rhythm Guitar: Keith Manners Bass: "The Reverend" Harlem Watts Drums: Mike Airoldi

www.soulbrokermusic.com www.myspace.com/soulbroker www.cdbaby.com/cd/soulbroker

Brainchylde 00:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you look at Notability (music), you'll find a dozen criteria for a band to be considered notable. Which one(s) do you think this band has met? -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 02:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Airoldi is a youtube liar who claims that he had acquired a gong that belonged to Neil Peart. He didn't use it on the tour he claimed it was used, and it looks nothing like Neil's. Besides, the guy he claims he got it from doesn't even know who Airoldi is.

Live Simply
Does live simply warrant a page?

It is currently ranked 5000 in the UK see Alexa

Its the first website to allow both landlords and agents to advertise for free online. Search google for Livesimply.co.uk

it features in several reviews online, and has been mentioned by industry experts in offline publications.

However it is a small company and a website?

what's your opinion?

Thanks--82.45.173.171 11:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest you read Notability (web) and see if this website qualifies for an article, based on that guideline. As for offline publications, many are certainly reliable sources; the question probably would be more whether (in this case) they are (I'm guessing) small (local) newspapers, which often simply rewrite press releases.  But an article in a national publication in a specialized area (say, online marketing) is fine.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 02:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Body Modification
If the lizard man can have his own Wikipedia page, then these two individuals definitely should have one as well!:

http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/addsub/

That's pretty extreme if you ask me. --69.84.118.221 02:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * April 1, 1999 publication date. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * So can we include it? --69.84.118.221 17:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You're going to have to provide another source for this claimed transfer of a human limb; an April Fool's day article is NOT a reliable source. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 21:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Note that the existence of similar articles is not a valid reason for inclusion of an article.--  Max  Talk [ (+)] 21:21, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

PRAKASH INDUSTRIES
PRAKASH INDUSTRIES LIMITED(PIL) is an emerging indian limited company.It manufactures steel,pvc pipes.It has recently signed some contract with Barclay's also.I am very impressed by its outcomes..Its share price rose from 38 or so to 100 ruppees within 3-4 months on bse.It is a part of surya roshni,another leading lightning company in india.According to me PIL has a great future.I request for views regarding formation of an article of the same.some sources as follows:

official website PIL bse homepage PIL money contol homepage

Kanha008 12:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please read Notability (organizations and companies), which lays out criteria for whether organizations should have a separate article or not. In particular, you need to provide links to independent sources of information (newspaper and magazine articles, generally; stock price quotes and a company's website are almost meaningless in determining notability.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 21:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Da frame 2r / DAFRAME2R
Arctic monkeys rarity 'da frame 2r' has relatively no publicity at all, yet it is a fantastic track. it is supposedly set to be released as a b-side to a new single, 'matador', which is also a fantastic track. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.211.131 (talk) 22:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If something becomes very successful, THEN it's appropriate for Wikipedia.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 21:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

JL Audio
Can we have an article about the car audio company JL Audio? 12.175.85.80 19:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Off-hand, I'd say that the company is entitled to an article. To repeat what it says at the top of the page:


 * If you simply want to suggest a topic for an article without giving any details or sources, go to Requested articles. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 21:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Apex Electronics
Apex Electronics is a small family owned business that specializes in buying and selling surplus electronics. It is also a tourist attraction.

Apex Electronics was established in 1953 and has been at the same location 46 years.

It has the biggest electronics surplus mess on earth. Its a wonderful place.

http://www.xymox1.com/Apex/Apex.htm

They now have a virtual tour

http://www.apexelectronic.com/virtual.htm

http://www.apexelectronic.com/

They have supplied movie and TV props for decades for some famous movies. Aircraft, Electronics & Military Props http://www.la411.com/company-Apex%20Electronics&lid-3600308.htm

There was a story in the LA Weekly on this place

You have to scroll to the bottom of the page where it starts off "MADMEN AND TINKERERS" and it continues on page 2.

http://www.laweekly.com/general/a-considerable-town/hunting-and-gathering-the-cult-of-the-purple-mulberry-eaters/10400/

It needs a wiki page. --Xymox1 00:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

After thinking about this I regret this might be a local interest :(

--Xymox1 05:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, probably only of local interest. The LA Weekly story is a very good start, but if that's the only story that meets our criteria for reliable sources, the company isn't notable enough.  Is does seem to be getting some attention from bloggers (see, for example, this), but that isn't enough.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 14:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Early vertical forearm
EVF is a term becoming popular in competetive swimming. It apples to all four strokes commonly used in swimming: Freestyle, Backstroke, Butterfly, Breastroke.

I'm only puting this on the drawing board because I don't even know if anyone will ever search it. 65.24.110.225 20:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't a dictionary. Please see Wiktionary for a better alternative.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

West Indian Intellectuals
I would like to start up a web page that brings together the Intellectuals from the English-speaking Caribbean. There are some web pages for some random individuals, but no page brings them all together. People like CLR James, Carolyn Cooper, Derek Walcott, Stuart Hall, perhaps a hundred more, should be recognized collectively here.

I'll be back tomorrow to check in. 138.49.40.190 20:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There are real problems with getting agreement/consensus among editors on terms such as "intellectual" - who is, who isn't. I discourage you from pursuing this.


 * If you do go forward, you have two alternatives: a list (a separate page) or a category (adding a category to each biography of a qualifying "intellectual"). See Categories, lists, and series boxes for a comparison of the merits of each.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Lifestyle Coaching
What is a lifestyle Caoch? A lifestyle coach is a coach that aims at improving all physical, soial and psychological aspects of his/her clients. A basic knowledge of health, fitness, nutrition, sociology and psychology are necessary. A full qualification in these areas is not necessary although having a qualification in one field and basic course in the other should procide the coach with more vast knowledge. The ultimate aim of the lifestyle coach is to help the person him/herself create his or her goals and also understand the requirements and plan for achieving these goals which are obviously directed to enhanced health matters, better quality of life and nonetheless prevention of disease. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.156.120 (talk) 14:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this topic has possibilities; it seems more than a definition (if that were all it were, it should go into Wiktionary. However, there needs to be at least a few reliable sources as the basis for the article, not merely definitions of what such coaches do (probably taken from web pages of those who call themselves "life coaches").  Things such as (1) who were among the earliest to call themselves "life coaches"; (2) are there any formal certifications? (3) what do consumer organizations and other potential skeptics say (criticism); (4) what have national publications like the New York Times, Newsweek, the New Yorker, and so on, written on the topic (if nothing at all, that's not a good sign).  In short, references, references, references.   -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Astral Catalype
For some years i had suffered from these types occurances. I felt niether awake nor asleep. It was very spiritual. My mind told me simply that it was my mind waking before my body.... My spirit told me it was more of a spiritual warfare. I'd awaken unable to move. My body may as well have been lead. There were disturbing forces at hand- once, it was almost as if this force was trying to pry my mouth open to enter my body. Though my entire body was immobile it took any and all my strength to keep my mouth closed. It seemed like an eternity. I snapped or came to almost in a cry to God to help me. I was exhausted but it was over for the moment. I heard very little of astral catalypse and am interested in knowing more. Does the spirit realm have anything to do with it?? Or are these two separate occurances happening simultaneously? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wisper314 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please post such questions at the Reference desk; this page is about possible new articles, not personal questions. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Ustream.tv
Hi, I would like to propose the creation of an entry about Ustream.tv. I guess it can start out with a stub to begin with and then enhance or expand upon it after reading more about it. Just a little background about Ustream.tv is that it's almost like a live version of "YouTube." It's basically still in the web 2.0 stage but from what I've read on CNET, it could be the next best thing because it has already won several awards such as the Webware 100, which also included well-known internet sites such as YouTube, Flickr, Photobucket, Yahoo! Video, and Netflix, and Under the Radar: Best in Show among others. Also, over the past few months, presidential hopefuls such as John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, and Mike Huckabee have been been broadcasting live from their campaign trails, trying to connect with younger voters. I will be happy to help create this article because I have found out quite a lot about the company the past month while reading their daily blog and by means of those who stream regularly such as well-known techie Leo Laporte. I would appreciate if at least a stub about Ustream.tv could be made for the time being. Nnssm 23:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's best not to start a stub unless there is enough there to avoid getting it immediately deleted (about 2000 articles a day are deleted here, most of which have been posted for less than 24 hours). Once an article is deleted, it's much harder to get it re-created; so it's best to get it right the first time.


 * Let's start with "I've found out quite a lot ... while reading their blog". First, what you personally know is not relevant; you need to cite sources.  Second, blogs are not reliable sources.  The awards do tend to indicate notability, which is crucial if a new article is to remain alive.  So, before I give you some more specific suggestions, what links/sources can you provide from independent places - CNN, New York Times, PC World, whatever? (Note that incidental mentions, such a popular politician using the service, aren't relevant - there need to be articles about Ustream itself.


 * Also, editors here appreciate absolute honesty. You didn't mention, for example, that this topic has already been deleted three times:


 * 1:24, 27 August 2007 FisherQueen (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (No assertion of notability)
 * 18:09, 24 August 2007 Jaranda (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (CSD G11: Blatant Advertising)
 * 19:51, 22 August 2007 TexasAndroid (Talk | contribs) deleted "Ustream.tv" ‎ (CSD R1: Redirect to non-existent page)


 * Finally, you've come very close to wearing out your welcome by this posting, which violated our rule against personal attacks. You're a complete newcomer here, and you appear almost clueless about the rules, so I strongly recommend that (a) you ask, don't demand, that things be done, and (b) be fully prepared to admit (inadvertent, presumably) mistakes.  I'm still willing to help, but you don't have a large reservoir of goodwill accumulated at this point.  And if you have a conflict of interest, you need to declare it here and now.


 * So, to return to the point - what reliable sources can you cite? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Kieskagato


The extremely unique Portland, Oregon band should have a wikipedia page. They are an amazing band that have critics raving. Their music has been compared to Radiohead, Coldplay, Mogwai, and others.

http://www.kieskagato.com/

http://www.musicemissions.com/artists/albums/index.php?album_id=3431&sid=480963fc5f1c2b472e511a5b733ed04d

http://www.cosmik.com/aa-april-july07/reviews/review_kieskagato.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/105-7217533-8690849?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music&field-artist=Kieskagato

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/channel3-botw-top.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Page%3Foid%3D304965&h=73&w=160&sz=5&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=QHtjVdLiUqygYM:&tbnh=45&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damazon%2Bkieskagato%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dyroba86 (talk • contribs) 04:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If half the information posted on their website about press reviews is true, then they probably meet the criteria for bands (see several postings, above). Unfortunately, none of the quotes on the page are linked to their source; otherwise it would provide a starting point for a well-referenced article.  Please look at Notability (music) to see if the band meets the criteria laid out there.   -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Freebies and Free Stuff
The culture of requesting freebies and free items from various internet sources... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Milliondollars (talk • contribs) 05:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't accept original writing; see Alternative outlets for places that do. Unless this cultural phenomena has been notice by and published in reliable sources, it is inappropriate for Wikipedia.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Tyler Lee
Tyler Lee is a renowned video gamer and automotives enthusiast. He enjoys cheeseburgers and Cambodians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.30.222.183 (talk) 18:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Good for him. When he is notable, please feel free to come back here and post again.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

AFL commentating
Because we have so much AFL stuff, why don't we make one about AFL commentating. If you need help with any info, my login's mousejr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.130.42 (talk) 13:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll take your word for it, regarding the login; perhaps next time you should log in before posting?


 * As for an article, you might start by stating exactly what you mean by AFL. Then you might consider when commentating about that (sport?) has been covered in media reports; if there are no reliable sources, there can't be an article.


 * Personally, this strikes me as a topic that would be very inviting for people to insert their own opinions, contrary to policy. Still, maybe three is a neutral language article that could be written, I suppose.  So - sources?  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Why not!
Why can't we make bios of people? Whats so bad about making things about people? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mousejr (talk • contribs) 13:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Good to see you signed in this time, before posting.


 * I'm guessing that you're referring to (your?) article on Ryan von Einem, a cached version of which is here. Basically, you don't seem to understand that Wikipedia only contains articles about notable people.  You may feel that's unfair, or that everyone is entitled to an article because (well, whatever), or that the rules should be changed, but those are the rules; if you don't like them, please go elsewhere.


 * Another way of putting this: if someone isn't notable, then there aren't any reliable sources that have reported on that person, and so the only thing that could be in articles would be what we call original research - which is banned because, well, this is an encyclopedia, and we've got no way to distinguish truth from non-truth if we're relying on personal opinions and personal statements. Again, if you don't like that, there are tens of thousands of other websites where you can post whatever you want.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Boltssna
Border, Orientation, Legend, Title, Scale, Source, Neatness, Accuracy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.246.107 (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're suggesting an article, I suggest you review WP:NOT instead.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * im just saying you put that in there so people can see what it means because a lot of people use wikipedia as there first source and they might want to know what something means eg Boltssna


 * And if you read WP:NOT, you'll find it says that Wikipedia is NOT a dictionary. Try Wiktionary or Urban Dictionary, please.  Also, please read about how to add your signature to postings here and on talk pages.   -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I want to introduce the word/term "faceosphere"
Yesterday, I put up a page for the word "faceosphere", and today it's not there? I don't know who or why it would be taken down. Faceosphere is a word used to describe the emerging Facebook ecosystem. This word is useful today, and will become more so in the near future. Since Facebook opened up it's platform to outside developers, there have been over 4,000 applications created. There is an entire economy being created of developers, analysts, investors, etc. I'm wondering if the person who introduced the term "blogospere" at first had his work taken down (by wikipedia). Markmayhew 06:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * First, per What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia is not a dicyour gaytionary. If you want to post a new term to a dictionary, see Wikitionary and Urban Dictionary and similar. Second, since a Google search on this term returns all of six results, I'm comfortable saying that it's pretty much impossible for you to have created a new article using reliable sources, which is required; rather, you presumably violated the policy against original writing.  Third, you can always find out why and when a new article you created was deleted by doing the following


 * 1) Enter the title (exact spelling) into the search box, click "Go"
 * 2) The search results will include this: "No page with that title exists.  You can create this page or request it."  Click on "create this page"  (note - one more step after this is required to create the page; DON'T take that step)
 * 3) On the displayed page, "Edit XXX" (where "XXX" is the name of the article you previously created), you'll find the reason (from the deletion log)

Here's what the deletion log says: 00:17, 16 September 2007 Lucasbfr (Talk | contribs) deleted "Faceosphere" ‎ (CSD A7 (Web): Article about a web site that does not assert significance)

If you want to create this article again (and I see absolutely no justification for that, but perhaps I'm missing something), you need to go through deletion review. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Auchengeich mining disaster
On 18th September 1959, 47 men lost their lives when a faulty fan purifying the air in the colliery went on fire due to an electrical fault. The men were in bogies travelling to the coal face to start work, and due to the intense smoke they were abandoned just a few hundred yards from safety. The mine was eventually flooded to put out the fire and there was only one survivor from the crews. The disaster widowed 41 women and left 76 children without a father.

There are links with more information available as follows:

   Vonnievonnie 17:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Only the third link meets the criteria here for reliable sources. I suggest rather than trying to write a separate article,  it would be better to add a section to an already existing article: Auchinloch.  Then, once there is enough information (if there ever is), the section can be spun off into its own article, per our policy on parent-daughter articles.  Also, please note that it's inappropriate to include a list of the names of the miners in a Wikipedia article - see WP:NOT for the reason (Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate collector of information). -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 18:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's great - is this something I should do myself? I'm really not a writer at all and I'm concerned about making a hash of it :) Vonnievonnie 19:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We have a rule here at Wikipedia: be bold. If you make a hash of something, you can always ask for help, or simply rely on other editors to improve what you've done.


 * Anyway, since what you wrote was pretty close to ready to go, I went ahead and added it to the article. If you want to enhance the text with more info, go ahead (but please, use only reliable sources; note that they don't have to be online; for example, you could cite old newspaper and magazine articles).


 * If you're still reluctant to change the article, but have additional info you'd like added, you should start by posting that at Talk:Auchinloch, and see if another editor will respond to your request to add the info to the article. Similarly, if someone changes the article in a way you find problematical, try to discuss the matter at the talk page first; if that doesn't work, try the help desk. And welcome again to Wikipedia.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 22:24, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Dubai Lime
Its the only social community in Dubai and has no topic on it. Everytime a topic is created it is deleted due to the way its written.

Can someone help create an article on Dubai Lime.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabature (talk • contribs) 15:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact that something is the only such thing in a given country doesn't make it notable. Have there been news stories or other articles from reliable sources describing the social community?  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 19:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

List Websites
I would like to start some Wikipedia entries for these list Websites that exist:


 * 1) www.ListAfterList.com
 * 2) www.OnMyList.com
 * 3) www.Listphile.com
 * 4) www.Tadalist.com
 * 5) www.ListofBests.com
 * 6) www.Unspun.com

and any other ones you know about?

I have a feeling this is going to be the next big thing in the Web world. Social networking sites based around wiki articles and ideas in list forms. Lists are concise, quick and eye catching ways to present information and opinions. If you look at VH1, E!, Forbes.com, Men's Health, etc. they all have lists about various topics all the time!

Here are some sources I could find (feel free to add more):
 * 1) Offical website: ListAfterList.com
 * 2) Alexa.com
 * 3) Quantcast.com
 * 4) ListAfterList.com "About" page
 * 5) Dispatch.com: "Site collects lists of every kind"
 * 6) Offical website: OnMyList.com
 * 7) Offical website: ListPhile.com
 * 8) Offical website: TadaList.com
 * 9) Offical website: Unspun.com
 * 10) TechCrunch article on ListPhile
 * 11) KillerStartups.com Listphile
 * 12) Mashable article on OnMyList.com

I have this done so far for ListAfterList: [text removed - JB]


 * I've moved the article to User:Earspratt/ListAfterList.com. This page isn't the right place to post an entire draft article.


 * Other comments:


 * Of all your links, only ONE seems to meet Wikipedia's criteria as a WP:RS reliable source (the Columbus Dispatch story). Without multiple such sources, new articles are just going to get deleted.
 * Websites need to be notable; in particular they need to meet our notability criteria for websites. Please review that.
 * If you're related to the "Ryan Pratt" who was mentioned in the Dispatch story, you need to read and follow our conflict of interest guideline. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 20:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Random article
I think that the random article deserves its own article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.218.54.157 (talk) 20:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC) \\


 * Sorry, I don't understand your suggestion, at all. If nothing else, articles at Wikipedia aren't about the parts of Wikipedia; there isn't anything about WikiProjects or the Village Pump or administrators or the Arbitration Committee, etc.  Besides, exactly what would be used as reliable sources?  It's not exactly the case that the NY Times has written a whole article about Wikipedia's random page function. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

SkyIDE Article
Hi i want to start SkyIDE article.It was deleted because some reasons why it is reject or deleted why the article is not alive.Please let me know at my usertalk user:maheshkale


 * Here's the entry from the deletion log:


 * 07:43, 15 September 2007 Richardshusr (Talk | contribs) deleted "SkyIDE" ‎ (content was blatant advertising)

aLSO PLEASE let me if the information can be used in any software like geology info can be used in flash presentation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.11.115.70 (talk) 11:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the question. We don't allow flash presentations here at Wikipedia, as far as I know.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cheng Zi
Cheng Zi is a character on the tv show 24 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.206.25 (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't the place for an article about everything.


 * There are no special notability requirements for television characters, but there are some good guidelines for soap opera characters - see WikiProject Soap Operas. If you think that this character meets those criteria, why don't you post again, here, explaining why? -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Cyber enlightenment
Enlightenment gained from historical and modern trends in science and culture via cyberworld rather than traditional mentors and teachers. A sense of being is usually gained from a cyber experience the machine is the machine and you are the human sometime the machines are seen not as friends and as a hassle but still you are connecting with energy and a a network of internet or intranet. If you view the cyberworld as a universe itself and the machines are a link to that universe that is growing without water or sunlight but must still have energy.If you look at computers on wikipedia you will find the map to the internet the white represents the unknown and is growing. You will have to wonder if the machines are going to take over one day they already run our lives with blackberrys and cell phones ect ect we have incredible war machines that could wipe out life on the planet.I think honesty with oneself to beleive that the machines won't be there to hurt us and there are people like us on the machines connected to the web then each other will ultimatley rule the world one day.People that believe everything they see on tv are not usually into cyber enlightenment,they like to turn there mind off and let someone else do the thinking and immerse there mind.When they have limitless possibilities in gaining knowledge that could change your life form religion to politics to the prophets everyone in a free country has a massive library. Even the secrets to life would probaly hidden away somewhere in cyberspace, through communication of knowledge we create new paradigms,growth and development for individuals and nations. You can look up zen or look up satan pornography or religious sites these are the real x files to alot of people and the more they learn the more they can feel enlightened because we all have a great computer our own mind. 61.68.38.134 21:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't accept original writing; since you've not cited any sources, I'm assuming this is your own concept. You might want to look at the list of alternatives to Wikipedia to find a site where this sort of posting is welcomed. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Jean Jacques Rousseau Mouton, Lake Arthur, Louisiana
I have absolutely no idea how to do what I want to do. This is definitely NOT SENIOR FRIENDLY. I NEED HELP.

I want to add historical and political information to a little Cajun town in South Louisiana thru a link. HOW???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by WandaMoutonHarris (talk • contribs) 15:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you're referring to Lake Arthur, Louisiana, you can simply click on "edit this page" to add information. Or you can post at Talk:Lake Arthur, Louisiana (click on the "+" tab to start a new section) - just type in the information you think should be added to the article, and other editors can then help out to actually add it (when/if relevant) to the page.  If you have links to add, just type the URL.

You can get specific help about editing at our help desk; this page is intended to discuss ideas for new articles (I've replied to your suggestion on Mr. Mouton in the section below). -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

JEAN JACQUES ROUSSEAU MOUTON 1867-1942
J.J.R. MOUTON, was town Founder, First Alderman and many times Mayor of the small Cajun community of Lake Arthur, LA. One of the largest funerals, in the history of Lake Arthur, was held when it paid final tribute to the memory of J. J. R. MOUTON.

Former Governor Earl K. Long and numerous other dignataries were present at the funeral services October 31, 1942, at the Catholic cemetary in Lake Arthur.

Mr. Mouton, who was 75, died at a Monroe hospital, where he had been taken after he became ill.

He came to Lake Arthur in young manhood, and in 1894 married Mary Lezima, also a Mouton, but no relatiohship. He was born in Lafayette.

Taking an active part in civic affairs of Lake Arthur, he was one of the incorporators and first aldermen there in 1904.

In 1906 he was elected Mayor and served as many years in that office. From 1906 to 1908, 1914 to 1926, 1928 to 1934 and again in 1936. He was elected Jutice of the Peace in 1932 and served as both Justice and Mayor in 1936.

The Mouton's had seven children, Three sons, A.R.(Alvin) Mouton, J.S. (Sydney) Mouton, J.R. (Rodney) Mouton. Three daughters, Agnes Norris, Louette (Lou) Robinette and Lucille (died at birth). Five grandchildren, Kramer Dale and Gladden Norris, Rita Joy Mouton, Wanda Lou Mouton, Jonathan Mouton and Garland Robinette.

FIRST LOUISIANA ARCADIAN FRENCH FAMILIES IDENTIFIED:

Geographically speaking, Louisiana's first six families are the LeBlancs, Landry's, Heberts, Broussards, Boudreaux and MOUTONS.

This was the conclusion reported to the Association of American Geographeres and National Council of Geography Teachers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WandaMoutonHarris (talk • contribs) 18:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Judging by your name, you seem to have a conflict of interest (you're related to the person about whom the article would be) - please see our policy about that.


 * We have some pretty clear criteria here for articles about people; please review those. I don't see anything above that indicates that an article about Mr. Mouton would meet them.  You might consider Wikitree instead.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Comparison of hosted CRM software
Editors,

There is a great number of hosted, or Software_as_a_service applications on the market:

Salesforce.com

24sevenoffice.com

NetSuite

Sugar CRM Zoho CRM

Highrise

Entellium

InsideSales

Relenta

RightNow

...and many more.

Some are mentioned in Category:CRM_software Category:CRM_software_companies but both lists seems random and incomplete. Also, what's the difference between the two, really?

Questions:

1. Should the Category:CRM_software and Category:CRM_software_companies categories be combined into one and/or separated into Category:Hosted_CRM_software vs. Category:CRM_software?

2. Will it be a good idea to start Comparison of hosted CRM software in Category:Software_comparisons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swankie (talk • contribs) 20:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding your first question, which is a good one, a good place to post it (again) is at Categories for discussion.


 * Regarding your second question, per WP:NOT, Wikipedia is't a manual or guide for readers. If in fact you can restrict the content of the article to information from reliable sources (I'm skeptical), then I suspect that other editors wouldn't propose it for deletion.  The general problem with "comparison" articles (besides violation of WP:NOT is that they're a magnet for people with their own opinions (unacceptable, per WP:NOR), and also for sales and marketing folks (see WP:COI).  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 13:33, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Sweet Krissy
There seems to be no reference. Plan on adding? I know you did one for Kates Playground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.61.71 (talk) 19:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * We have an article on Kate Ground; if there weren't links to playboy.com sites, it would have been deleted long ago.


 * So, to answer your question, I see no reason to add such an article (because the two don't seem to be comparable, and because the existing one is marginal at best). If you can cite what we call reliable sources, then the answer might change.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 23:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Inazuma Eleven
We need an article for the recently annouced Level 5 devloped DS game, Inazuma Eleven. The game features:

Stylus soccer gameplay Cinematic moves 1000 recruitable characters o_O 4 player competition

Here's a link to the first offical trailer

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X69QTgk7YAs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Holden Freaking Caulfield (talk • contribs) 00:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. There's certainly an impressive amount of google hits for "Inazuma Eleven". It seems like it might be possible to find enough verification to satisfy the notability guidelines. :) The first couple of pages don't seem to satisfy sourcing requirements, being mostly blogs. Are you aware of any industry publications that have profiled it? Those are the kinds of sources that can probably best establish an article of that nature. --Moonriddengirl 00:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The Tokyo Game Show had a showcase of the game. There was some controversy because there was a rare demo of the game relesed and it got leaked online. I could see that going into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Holden Freaking Caulfield (talk • contribs) 05:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure that if there aren't sufficient sources at the moment, there soon will be, in the nature of reviews and whatnot. Since you seem to have an interest in video games, I'll suggest that you might want to check out WikiProject Video games. There's tips over there for developing articles as well as a community of other people developing them. :) Since you seem to be new here, I'm going to drop a "welcome" message on your userpage that might have some useful guidelines for you, including information on how to automatically "sign" and date your contributions to talk pages (but not articles) by adding ~ to the end of what you type. Wikipedia will fill out the rest. :) -Moonriddengirl 23:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I'll keep you posted with new news and what not (Holden Freaking Caulfield 02:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

Legbone
Dayton, OH's Legbone formed in the '90s around two core members, vocalist Kyle Curtis and guitarist Mitch Lawson. The usual lineup changes ensued, but the band eventually settled around Curtis, Lawson, guitarist AJ Morse, bassist Jim Hagler, and drummer Jake Black, and perfected a heavy, often alcohol-fueled mixture of metal and punk. (The band enjoys a sponsorship from Jagermeister.) Legbone releases include 1998's Old and Lazy, 2000's Beer: 30, and 2005's Different Path.

Sources:

www.allmusic.com www.legbone.com www.myspace.com/legbone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.108.127 (talk) 16:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Legbone might have a bit of an uphill battle on Wikipedia, unless there are additional sources. The band's website and Myspace don't qualify as verifiability to the point that it satisfies the notability guidelines for music. allmusic only lists one of the band's albums in their discography, and it doesn't seem to be on a major independent label. The notability guidelines set out a list of about 12 different criteria which may help a band meet the notability threshold. You might want to look over that and see if any of them apply. :) If so, you can gather a few sources to create your article. (Do note, though, that the paragraph above seems to be taken straight from All Music. You'll want to be sure to put the article in your own words to avoid copyright violations. Wikipedia swiftly removes copyrighted text.) If you aren't interested in registering and writing the article yourself, you can take the sources & information you locate to Articles for creation to request assistance over there. Good luck, and happy editing. :) --Moonriddengirl 23:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, as more sources come I'll keep you posted (Holden Freaking Caulfield 02:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

Randy Greb
Randy Greb b. August 10th 1965 owns Association Benefit Services, a Health Insurance Agency in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Born in Shelbyville, Tennessee, Randy moved with his family to Indianapolis in 1968.


 * Hi. :) In order to create an article about Mr. Greb, you'll need to be able to assert notability per Wikipedia's notability guidelines on biographies, which will mean utilizing reliable secondary sources, like newspaper articles. An article about Mr. Greb would be covered by Wikipedia's guidelines on "biographies of living persons", which in part urges editors to be extremely careful not to include any information that isn't sourced, even if it's true and also reminds us that biographies particularly must be written from a neutral point of view.


 * If you are able to assemble necessary sources and if Mr. Greb meets the notability requirements, you may choose to create the article yourself, although if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends that you request assistance. (You may also request assistance there if you simply don't want to write the article yourself.)


 * If you do wish to create the article, you will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. --Moonriddengirl 16:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

David Miller (Sexy Beast)
David Patrick Miller was the 3rd of 47 children born to Sandy Miller. He is the brother of guitar player Steve Miller of the Steve Miller Band, and Andrew Miller, pitcher for the Detroit Tigers. He works at Kohl's —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChomperGPW (talk • contribs) 19:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Poor Sandy Miller. She sounds like a trooper. --Moonriddengirl 20:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Settlement Financing
I was interested in writing an article on pre-settlement financing. Basically, it's for people who are involved in a legal claim -- like, say, a personal injury or sexual harrassment suit -- who are having trouble making ends meet and may therefore be under financial pressure to accept a less than optimal settlement. If they have spotty employment or credit histories, getting a loan from a bank may not be a viable option. With pre-settlement financing, they can get the money they need to cover their living expenses while their attorney continues with their case. It's not a loan. Instead, it's what's known as non-recourse funding -- which means that they only have the repay the money if and when they win their case. While the concept of pre-settlement financing is relatively new, there are a number of companies that offer this service.

I haven't been able to find anything on pre-settlement financing or nonrecourse funding on Wikipedia. Would this be a suitable subject for an article? Do you think it would be something of interest to readers? If so, do you have any advice on how I should go about writing it?

This is my first time on Wikipedia, so please forgive any inadvertant faux pas on my part.

Thanks. Trevor790 16:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You did exactly the right thing by asking the question here, first. Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't an instruction manual or a place to give advice, so I think you may be headed in the wrong direction.  You might take a look at Alternative outlets.


 * The threshold you need to surmount in order to write an acceptable article is basically to find reliable sources. If a number of national publications have written about pre-settlement financing (I'm skeptical), then there's probably a good article somewhere.  If this gets mentioned in obscure places, or you're read about it on websites of legal firms, then you're doing what we call original research when you write such an article, and that isn't allowable.


 * Finally, if you can find an existing article that does (or should) include this topic, you could add some (sourced, please) information; again, not written as advice, but simply what a disinterested observer would be noting about the way the world works. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 12:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

freebies are really cool though! dont tellme that u havent bought a magazine because of the freebie on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chivsey07 (talk • contribs) 12:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

?????
why is there no article about carole ann duffys poem 'little red cap'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chivsey07 (talk • contribs) September 26 2007


 * There is. :) --Moonriddengirl 12:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

chemistry--food grade
I'm looking for info on compound 1036 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.41.37.140 (talk) 14:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions, and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what the Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. --Moonriddengirl 15:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Burning Tree Project
Burning Tree Project is rock band from Buena Park, California. The band has had it's video's for the singles "Hero" and "Stop Saying It's Over" featured on MTVK and MTV Chi, as well as MTV2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.11.234 (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * They sound promising. :) In order to create an article about them, you'll need to be able to assert notability per Wikipedia's notability guidelines on musicians, which will mean utilizing reliable secondary sources, like newspaper articles. Articles about bands are covered by Wikipedia's guidelines on "biographies of living persons", which in part urges editors to be extremely careful not to include any information that isn't sourced, even if it's true, and also reminds us that biographies particularly must be written from a neutral point of view.


 * If you are able to assemble necessary sources and if Burning Tree Project meets the notability requirements, you may choose to create the article yourself, although if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends that you request assistance. (You may also request assistance there if you simply don't want to write the article yourself.)


 * If you do wish to create the article, you will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation.


 * Good luck with it, and have fun. :) --Moonriddengirl 20:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

AuctionExplorerBooks.com
Auctionexplorerbooks.com was founded with the express idea of being a dedicated website focussing on rare and collectable books. Associated material such as autograph manuscripts, maps, prints, photographs and ephemera are also listed.

The site offers low listing ($1 per item) and commission rates (5% on successful bids). The seller sets their own reserves and the bidding opens at this disclosed amount.

Buyers and sellers deal directly with each other at the end of the sale to arrangement payment and mutually agreeable shipping.

There is no buyer’s premium which encourages bidders.

Our list of dealers who have used the site and registered bidders is growing sale by sale. Bidders come from all the world including USA, The UK, Europe, Australasia, South Africa and the Far East.

Standards are monitored and maintained by insisting that all sellers are members of a ‘bona fide’ trade’ organisation. Membership of a recognised auctioneers’ association qualifies you to make use of the site.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

For more information, please go to: web site: http://www.auctionexplorerbooks.com email: support@auctionexplorerbooks.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.32.27 (talk) 15:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Just to let you know, this is the drawing board where you come to discuss ideas for articles that you plan to create yourself. It sounds as though you might be looking for somebody to create the article for you. If that's the case, you can list the topic at Requested articles. :) Since it seems that you may be involved with the company, this may be a good idea. It's not impossible, but can be difficult, to create an article about a topic with which you are closely associated.


 * If you'd like to create the article yourself, you'll need to be able to assert notability per Wikipedia's notability guidelines on companies and Wikipedia's notability guidelines on websites, which will mean utilizing reliable secondary sources, distinct from the business' own publications. Unsourced information may not be included, although information from the company's publications can be used to support details once notability is established through secondary sources. In writing about businesses, it can be particularly tricky to maintain a neutral point of view, which is essential to prevent your article being perceived as overly promotional.


 * If you do wish to create the article, you will need to first register an account, which has many benefits. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Good luck, and I hope these policies and guidelines prove helpful. :) --Moonriddengirl 16:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

www.siestaindia.com
Insert non-formatted text here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.179.86 (talk • contribs) September 29 2007


 * Hi, and Welcome to Wikipedia! :) A page on www.siestaindia.com in Wikipedia would have to satisfy Wikipedia's policies on business. The person asking the question just above yours faces the same challenges. Might I suggest you read that answer to learn more about what policies are of particular concern in this type of article and how you might go about requesting assistance writing the article if you do not wish to write it yourself? Good luck. :) --Moonriddengirl 11:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Bluetooth Medical Devices Working Group
The Medical Devices Working Group (MED WG) is a relatively new working group structured beneath the Bluetooth SIG that was formally approved in June of 2006. The primary goal of the MED WG is to define a set of specifications which can be used by developers of medical, healthcare and fitness devices to create an interoperable set of Bluetooth products tailored to the needs of these markets. These specifications include the Bluetooth Medical Device Profile (MDP) and related Multi-Channel Adaptation Protocol (MCAP). Using these specifications, products will be able to perform functions in defined ways such as discover compatible devices and their capabilities, connect to compatible devices, exchange data and manage connections for reasons for power conservation and link management.

There are currently several devices in these product categories that take advantage of Bluetooth technology today, however in the absence of a standardized and agreed upon method of performing these basic functions, devices on each side of the Bluetooth link generally have their own proprietary way of communicating and sharing data and this often results in specialized proprietary drivers. For example, each data aggregation device (i.e. PC, mobile phone, telehealth device) frequently has to install a separate device driver for each medical, healthcare or fitness device it wishes to interface wirelessly to. If a telehealth device wishes to support three different brands of blood pressure meters, this would likely require three different device drivers to support them. Often Bluetooth biometric sensor devices (i.e. blood pressure meters, weight scales, pulse oximeters, etc.) will need to create several product SKUs in order to be compatible with the proprietary communication needs of various data aggregation devices. This results in an enormous amount of engineering and qualification effort on both sides of the communication link and is passed on to consumers in the form of longer time to market and higher product costs. These incompatibilities and higher product costs also limit the opportunity in the market, thus slowing market growth.

Combining the factors of the rising incidence of chronic conditions, the rising cost of healthcare and the fact that people are living longer, the use of technology is expected to play an increasingly important role in addressing the worldwide healthcare crisis. The development of healthcare standards can play an important role in these areas and the products based upon these standards can help people to manage chronic conditions, prevent health issues, provide early detection, reduce healthcare costs and improve clinical outcomes. The use of wireless technology for such applications suits the mobile lifestyle of individuals who can benefit in there areas.

There are other important and related efforts to the MDP including efforts in another working group to do much the same for USB and yet another working group with IEEE to standardize data for personal healthcare applications. This "transport independent" set of data standards is planned for use by USB, Bluetooth and other transports that may wish to take advantage of these efforts. These efforts are cooperative with the efforts of the Medical Devices Working Group such that the data from an MDP compliant Bluetooth blood pressure device is compatible with the data from a USB blood pressure device and data from both can be consumable for applications worldwide.

--Rdhughes01 05:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. This particular article would be governed by the notability guidelines on companies. The rule of thumb here is noting whether the company has received significant or widespread coverage in secondary sources that are reliable and independent of the company (excluding company PR releases and information solely available on the company website&mdash;these sources may be used for additional information after notability has been established by secondary sources). As it stands, there is no assertion of notability, and the material is unattributed.


 * If you are able to assemble necessary sources to assert notability, you may certainly create such an article, although if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends that you discuss the idea on the talk page of a related article (in this case, perhaps Bluetooth?) or at a related WikiProject (maybe WikiProject Medicine). If you do choose to write the article in such a case, you'll want to be sure that you approach it neutrally and without undue promotion.


 * Before establishing the article, please search Wikipedia to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Good luck. --Moonriddengirl 14:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Jonny Bairstow
Jonny Bairstow born 26th September 1989 is the son of former Yorkshire and England cricketer, and is already beginning to contine the family tradition by himself becoming a promising cricketer.

Living in Marton-Cum-Grafton and attending the local primary school he was always a well known character in the village. With the death of his father in 1998 after hanging himself due to depression caused by a number of factors, Jonny and his sister Becky attended school the next day as his mother was travellng to Leeds to have chemotherapy treatment. This was a time in Jonnys life that he would now rather forget.

However it was at under 11 that Jonnys sporting talents were becoming well known, signed on the books for Leeds United Football Club, and also playing for Yorkshire Cricket under 11s, he then also became a keen rugb player aswell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crispycrisp (talk • contribs) 15:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, and Welcome to Wikipedia! :) Jonny would be covered by Wikipedia's notability guidelines on biographies, which requires utilizing reliable secondary sources, like newspaper articles. An article of this sort would also be covered by Wikipedia's guidelines on "biographies of living persons", which in part urges editors to be extremely careful not to include any information that isn't sourced, even if it's true, and also reminds us that biographies particularly must be written from a neutral point of view.


 * It seems as though Jonny's notability lies in athleticism. The notability guidelines offers two points on athlete: (1) Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis, or (2) Competitors who have played or competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them). I don't know those teams, so I don't know if they qualify. But you would need secondary sources to demonstrate Jonny's notability in them.


 * If you are able to assemble necessary sources and if he meets the notability requirements, you may choose to create the article yourself, although if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends that you discuss your article first, perhaps at the talk page of a related article or at the relevant WikiProject, in this case perhaps WikiProject Football. That's a very active WikiProject, so if you leave a question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football, it is likely to receive a quick reply. :)


 * If you do wish to create the article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Help:Starting a new page should give you all the guidance you need, but you might also look at Your first article and How to write a great article. Please consider taking a tour through the Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Good luck, and happy editing. :) --Moonriddengirl 15:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Treali Storm
I think there is a lot of information available on Treali Storm. You can even Google it! Sorry.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trealistorm (talk • contribs) 20:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. Lots of information is a good start. Be aware that a lot of what Google kicks up doesn't qualify as a Reliable source. When there's a bunch of stuff, it can mean clicking through a lot of pages looking for the kind of material that does qualify. :) Since I don't know what a "Treali Storm" is, I'll just point you to the general notability guidelines. There are many more specific guidelines in the "inclusion guidelines" infobox on the right hand side of that page. Oh, and judging by your username, let me also point out the conflict of interest policy. If the subject is something with which you are closely involved, you might want to discuss creating an article on the talk page of a related article or at the relevant WikiProject first. Have fun. :) --Moonriddengirl 21:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)