Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests/Archive 14

-- Please Note: Not all threads have been marked however all threads older than 10 days old should be considered stale --

Are live feeds of a television program considered verifiable sources?
I have been trying to get the "Big Brother 9" page more accurate, as it seems that there is a rash of unverifiable information being shown. While I understand that Wikipedia is supposed to be a constantly changing and evolving encyclopedia, what is happening is allowing for content that is not verified by anyone on the article.

The problem is that the show also has a LIVE FEED that someone can subscribe to. When someone sees something on these live feeds they then place it on the page. The problem I see is that this information, while true, is NOT verifiable. However because the Big Brother articles have been maintained for years by the same people (Alucard and rjd) they are bent on disagreeing with me and use consensus to overrule the fact that these are unverifiable sources.

I am looking for a third party to look at this and explain why the article should contain this information. My original argument was that the live feed should have its own page, because the article is about the TV SHOW, and only information that has been broadcast and verifiable on various websites should be allowed, but that was shot down. Then I suggested at least putting the unaired information onto the bottom of the page, leaving the top to be free of unverifiable information and adding a tag to the unverified info that it may change by the air date, but again... shot down.

Can anyone help me? Am I dead wrong that these feeds should be allowed?

As an example, recently on the show one of the contestants left, but there was no explanation as to why. On the page, people put that he "walked" but there is not information saying that, and in fact he may have been kicked from the show, or removed for some other reason... but yet this misinformation is placed on Wikipedia as fact.

Thank you.

RMThompson (talk) 16:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's a horribly unencyclopedic way of writing and verifying an article. OTOH, we're talking about Big Brother... Pop culture articles like that are condemned to be owned by fans who are more interested in keeping the article up-to-date and less concerned about proper sourcing, and particularly the proper use of reliable, third-party secondary sources. Moreover, only secondary sources can help with assessing the due weight to be assigned to each of the various aspects and bits of information in the article. That said, it's not worth the effort of arguing about it imho. User:Dorftrottel 19:03, February 18, 2008


 * In the past, I've run into trouble trying to argue that videos should not be used as a source. Now that I think back, I believe that videos can be used as a source (with lots of exceptions).  Exceptions:  References that violate WP:EL (content that costs money to download, illegal copyright infringement like youtube), references to videos without timestamps, references that try to back up complex conclusions, references that backup trivial/non-notable statements should not remain.  Like Dorftrottel, I'm mostly just spouting my opinion, I can't recall any relevant sections of policy/guidelines that help you.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 20:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The worst part is that they arent even videos you can view again, its LIVE FEEDS of whats going on inside the house. RMThompson (talk) 21:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that live feeds can in no way be used as sources for anything on Wikipedia. Let me take another look, maybe I'll compose a posting to the article talk page about the issue. User:Dorftrottel 21:44, February 18, 2008

Please keep the discussion centralized: Talk:Big Brother 9 (U.S.). - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for the record: I firmly believe that requesting assistance with content discussions is perfectly valid and within the scope of this page. It does not imho (and certainly not in this instance) automatically constitute Forum shopping or Asking the other parent. User:Dorftroffel 17:11, February 22, 2008
 * I would just like to say RMThompson that I am not bent on disagreeing with you and if you remember correctly in one on one discussions we came up with the compromise of "putting the unaired information onto the bottom of the page, leaving the top to be free of unverifiable information and adding a tag to the unverified info that it may change by the air date." I simply said that the compromise should be posted on the talk page so there can be a discussion. I wasn't against the compromise.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  17:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

REQUEST TO REMOVE PICS
HI THIS IS MY REQUEST TO ALL THE EDITORS ADMINISTRATORS AND ALL OF THE WIKIPEDIA'S OWNERS TO REMOVE ALL THE PICTURES OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD(PEACE BE UPON HIM) FROM ALL OF THE WIKIPEDIA PAGES WHERE IT HAS DISPLAYED. WE THE MUSLIMS RESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS AND ALL THE PROPHETS SO OTHERS SHOULD ALSO GIVE RESPECT TO OURS ITS NOT ONLY ME BUT ALL THE MUSLIMS WANT WIKIPEDIA TO REMOVE THE PICTURES OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPO HIM) WE ARE SIGNING THE PETITION ASWELL for eg. http://the-petition.blogspot.com/ www.thepetitionsite.com/2/removal-of-the-pics-of-muhammad-from-wikipedia etc. etc. I MAKE AN APPEAL AGAIN TO REMOVE THESE PICTURES FROM ALL THE PLACES WE WILL BE VERY THANKFUL TO YOU. YOURS SINCERELY KASHIF KAYANI (UK). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kzkayani (talk • contribs) 18:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please read Talk:Muhammad/FAQ and Talk:Muhammad/images. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 18:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Original research?
I have published a book on Lulu, currently being picked up by online booksellers. I have set up an alert to be advised of these. Recently I visited a site which had a link to the author name on Wikipedia, but on clicking on it, Wikipedia returned a 'not found', so I thought I would rectify this, but on checking Wikipedia guidelines it says no advertising, and no original research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Athene43 (talk • contribs) 02:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What's your question? You want to restore an article about yourself, an author? What's the name of the article? Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 02:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I have not submitted the article because, as I read it, it is againt policy, but, as I said, I have found a link stating 'more information on Wikipedia' (I have since found another such link)and I wondered if, in the interests of Wikipedia's reputation, it would bhe betteer if there was such an article at the end of the link, rather than 'not found'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Athene43 (talk • contribs) 08:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that, by and large, Wikipedia's reputation is best served by clear and well-heeded guidelines concerning the kind of information that can be added to it. I also think, by and large, that when a web site offers a link to a page that does not exist, it says more about the linking site than the linked one.  JohnInDC (talk) 14:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Athene43: Thanks for the further information. In order to discern whether or not an article would be appropriate, we need to first know the name of the subject. Could you provide that information, and if possible a link to the page you referred to on Lulu? Thanks. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 19:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

IMDb & TV.com
This is a two-parter question. First, are external links for IMDb & TV.com still allowed on articles for television shows (not used as references, just as external links for the series)? Another editor removed them from an article stating that Wiki does not cite IMDb and TV.com as external links. Is this a new policy or a mistake on the editor's part? Second, the same editor removed a list of episodes that was on the original article (the series only ran for two seasons) into a whole new article basically making the old version a stub. I've seen quite a few articles for short tv series that were set up the way I originally edited the page so I see the addition of a new article page just for 44 episodes a bit odd. Pinkadelica (talk) 08:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course we do cite IMDb and TV.com as external links, or even references where appropriate. We even have a multitude of templates to format those links (Category:Television templates). As to the article split: I merged the episode info (good work, btw) back into the article. There's no need to split that off right now. User:Dorftrottel 13:04, February 19, 2008
 * For other assistants: The account who made those edits is User:Overjoyed. May be worth keeping an eye on. User:Dorftrottel 13:05, February 19, 2008
 * Thanks so much. I thought there was some new rule I was missing or something. Thanks for merging the pages back together as well. Pinkadelica (talk) 19:22, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Help re a conflict of interest
Myself and another user independently noticed that the page James Fox (singer) was probably being edited by someone connected with the artist - user:Jasperxp. I flagged the page with a COI tag and comments were put on the user's page. The other editor and I both extensively edited the page to remove or flag unsubstantiated material and peacock terms, promotional language etc. References for the page included the artists myspace and also links to copywritten material on youtube (which I flagged up on the page).

Subsequently a new user has begun editing the page - user:Bouncer23. The user has added info about the artists early childhood for instance (without citations). Most of the edits are in good faith, attempting to improve the article, however I am under the impression that the COI still exists. As a result I posted a load of policy/guideline snippets on the talk page in the hope that they might encourage the user not to edit the article directly. Bouncer23 has since posted a message on my talk page saying he is not Jasperxp and is not connected with him. However he then stated that he knew that Jasperxp was currently indisposed (suggesting to me that Bouncer23 is actually connected with him).

I hope that made sense! Basically I need a bit of help tackling this as I'm really not sure what the best course of action is. Please read the convo on my talk page regarding James Fox. I know wp:auto is just a guideline, but its a widely accepted one and it quite possibl is being broken here. Is there anything that can be done that can solve this smoothly? Many thanks Sassf (talk) 22:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As long as Bouncer23 keeps making good faith edits and the article does not turn into blatant advertising, I would just let him continue, but I would keep a careful eye on the article. If there are any nagging concerns or things go downhill, report him.  Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 00:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

DISCOVERY CHANNEL BATTLESHIP....10 GREATEST BATTLESHIPS
BATTLE SHIP X WHICH WAS IDENTIFIED LATE IN THE WAR AS THE USS SOUTH DAKOTA, WAS A MEMBER OF THE IOWA CLASS SHIPS WHICH WAS IGNORE IN THE LISTING OF IOWA CLASS SHIPS,,SEE USS SOUTH DAKOTA,,,ITS WEB SITE AND THE ARTICLES ABOUT ADMIRL 'BULL' HALSEYS FLAG SHIP,,,I CANT RE THE NAME OF 1ST COMMANDER ,,, CAPT THOMAS GLATCH  AFTER VISITING WEBSITE

DISCOVERY CHANNEL DOES A DISERVICE TO THIS VENERABLE OLD BATTLE TEST SHIP AND HER CREW,,WHICH SLUGGED IT OUT IN WW2 WITH THE JAPENESE,, WHICH WAS RIGHT THERE IN TOKOYO BAY WITH THE MISSOURI —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.33.226.152 (talk) 09:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Is there a request for assistance somewhere within that? If so, please re-express it, mostly in lowercase. -- Hoary (talk) 09:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Editor repeatedly misrepresents content of source on BLP
I presented the following as an ANI but got no apparent admin response. Since then 3 admins and another editor have all categorized it as a "content dispute". And suggest RfC or Mediation. I can't see how to frame it as anything other than "disruptive editing" without ignoring WP:VER and WP:BLP. I am seeking input in what to actually present in a RfC or Mediation request

--- (very substantially re-edited from ANI version)
 * In article David Hicks /Religious and militant activities/Afghanistan a source lists a series of specific allegations and accusations against David Hicks; "The US also alleged Hicks trained at al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, learning guerilla warfare, weapons training, including landmines, kidnapping techniques and assassination methods." (article: US charges David Hicks)


 * Prester John repeatedly edited to present the allegations as facts/admissions.


 * My first edit summ read "(..."allegedly" as this is what source cited (SMH) says - it presents allegations by US - find other source before presenting this as fact)"


 * User:PresterJohn then set up a strawman implying that I was arguing that Hicks had never trained with Al Queda. :Edit summ from[] 00:10, 12 January 2008 Prester John (Talk | contribs) (66,379 bytes) (he writes home about it. No one disputes it)


 * My second edit summ read "(the refrernce cited is for allegations - pls find another reference or discuss on talk page why you think we should put these allegations forward as being proved unsourced)"


 * Starting a new section on his user page I wrote "...The source cited for the material is http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/11/1086749867034.html "The US charges David Hicks" SMH. The first five paragraphs contain the phrases "has been charged", "Hicks is accused", "The US also alleged", "the US alleged." and "Hicks was also allegedly". It is not open to editors under WP:BLP to include serious statements beyond what we can source. By presenting this material about Hicks as facts rather than allegations we fail to follow WP:BLP. If you can find and cite a reliable sources for this material being fact I will support its inclusion in the article....[]"


 * PresterJohn then supplied another source. This new source did not contain the specific accusations but only presented generalised "Al Qaeda training" as a fact.
 * Edit summ from [] 01:59, 13 January 2008 Prester John (Talk | contribs) (66,860 bytes) (There is your alternate source as requested)


 * Discusion continued at here on the article talkpage with PresterJohn and Skyring/Pete and also on archived User_talk:Prester_John#David_Hicks allegations with less and less success.


 * PresterJohn repeatedly attacked the above mentioned strawman and invoked WP:WEIGHT as the reason why his edits were OK. He was strongly supported in this line of "reasoning" by User:Skyring/Pete.


 * I submit that;
 * PresterJohn repeatedly edited to include material that was not sourced and while knowing that the material had been challenged. This violates WP:VER. He continued this edit knowing it had been challenged without resolving any dispute over the challenge.


 * The material presented by PresterJohn fell within the 3 categories listed on WP:BLP as requiring immediate removal. He repeatedly inserted this material knowing that it had been identified as such by a active editor without resolving any dispute before re-inserting.


 * PresterJohn either has great challenge in understanding WP policies or was editing disruptively. At other times he edits effectively. He seems to have a disturbing understanding of editing. User:Agha Nader at [|Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Prester John (2nd nomination)] wrote "In his sandbox [1], he has a user box "This user is Satan." If you click on "Satan" it links to [2]. It states "One technique for managing conflict in groups is to set up one person in your faction to be a LightningRod, which is like a more intense, ongoing ScapeGoat. Their purpose is to attract all the hate and bile and frustration which arises, and to shrug it off. In the process, careful thinkers are not slandered, leaders are not distracted, topics aren't changed, and all that." Prester John implies that he is this Lightning Rod (what you and me would call a troll). We ought to see through this crap."


 * Users PresterJohn and Skyring promoted highly disruptive and destructive interpretations of many WP policies at here on the article talkpage


 * Diffs of misrepresenting edits performed by PresterJohn


 * Revision as of 00:43, 3 February 2008


 * Revision as of 01:59, 13 January 2008


 * Revision as of 00:10, 12 January 2008


 * The same edits have also been performed by IP


 * Revision as of 03:10, 1 February 2008 by 124.180.162.217


 * PresterJohn had been blocked for 1 month starting 09:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC) by Save_Us_229 according to page Talk to the Hand. The first of the misrepresentation of sources began 12 January 2008. (ANI report lodged 02:17, 3 February 2008)

I had thought anyone reading the discusions I had on this with PresterJohn and Skyring would immediately see "disruption". I was wrong. Whats a good way to present this stuff? SmithBlue (talk) 18:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

At present I would like suggestions as to how I can present this as a RfC or as a Mediation request. But I have no confidence in my presentation ability - and dont want to waste more time on ineffective approaches. Input please. SmithBlue (talk) 05:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC) By now I would appreciate feedback as to why this request is not of interest to editors on this page. SmithBlue (talk) 03:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * At the top of this page: "The description of the issue with which you need help should be concise"  Thank you for coming here for help and I'm very sorry nobody replied before now, but I think your description could have been a little more concise.  Let me start by saying I've skimmed a few of your comments on User talk:SmithBlue, User talk:Coppertwig, and User talk:Seraphimblade.  I've only skimmed them, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.  You seem a tiny bit confrontational ("your statement, that you will share your rationale when asked, is fairly meaningless if that sharing does not occur in a timely manner" seems confrontational).  That being said, trying to have conversations with people who aren't replying can be maddening so I feel your pain.
 * My suggestion is to continue making conversation on the Talk:David Hicks page. "As the removing editor, I agree SmithBlue & John Dalton."  There's an example of an easy and quick consensus you received a few weeks ago.  The talk page is where anybody will discuss especially when you're making changes that many people disagree with.  Leave the "User talk" pages for quick cordial questions that can be easily answered in a few sentences.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 04:35, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * A quick link: WP:BLPN.  I'm sure you know about it, but it seemed worthy considering your mention of WP:BLP.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 04:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

SmithBlue (talk) 06:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Virginia Tech Massacre
The articles in Wikipedia are very informative, however, it is sad to see so many forms of media playing into the hands of those who deserve NO ATTENTION AT ALL!!!! The picture of the individual who caused so much pain and suffering SHOULD NOT be shown ANYWHERE. By doing this, he got what he wanted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.172.212.198 (talk) 23:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't follow your argument. Can you please explain (without using all capital letters) what's wrong with having Cho's picture?  Also, make sure your argument is consistent with the pictures found here:  Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Charlie Manson.  All notable biographical articles have photographs except where one could not be located.  Before you call me insensitive, I am also a recent Virginia Tech Alumni (as well as you).  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 00:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe what 70.172.212.198 is trying to say is that the gunman wanted notoriety, and that is exactly what the news media have given him by placing his picture on television networks, in newspapers, etc. I personally do not agree with his implied request to remove the pictures, I am just trying to interpret his comments.  Fléêťflämẽ U-T-C 03:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. However, I understand that part of the argument.  I'm trying to understand why we would remove the photographs of Cho.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 05:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

CLS Plasticard
I would like to know why this post was considered advertisment. I believe that it was simply an overview of the company to date and is no where as detailed as a post such as IBM. Please let me know what needs to be done in order to have it reposted. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cardjett (talk • contribs) 18:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it was considered advertisement because it was advertisement. It might have been an overview of the company, but whether the company was notable was of concern. If you would like to rewrite the post, please do so in your sandbox. Please make it neutral, and back it up with Reliable sources. It might be able to make it.  Jus tin  (Gmail?)(u) 18:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Request by Rummermail
I am requesting a review of the AN/PVS-22 listing Optical Systems Technology as the designer and manufacturer of the AN/PVS-22. Knight's Armament is the listed manufacturer of the AN/PVS-22 in the Govt JEDAS (joint electronics type designation automated system).Knight's Armament also owns the registered trademark of the UNS®. I originally posted this information first on the sight and it keeps getting changed. I would like to present my info so that this can be fixed once and for all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rummermail (talk • contribs) 21:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * D'you have a source for that?  Jus tin  (Gmail?)(u) 21:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I am requesting a review of the AN/PVS-22 listing Optical Systems Technology as the designer and manufacturer of the AN/PVS-22. Knight's Armament is the listed manufacturer of the AN/PVS-22 in the Govt JEDAS (joint electronics type designation automated system).Knight's Armament also owns the registered trademark of the UNS®. I originally posted this information first on the sight and it keeps getting changed. I would like to present my info so that this can be fixed once and for all. Shane Robinson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rummermail (talk • contribs) 22:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we got that. Do you have a source?  Jus tin  (Gmail?)(u) 22:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Requester: See WP:RS or WP:V for hints of the kinds of sources being asked for. -- SEWilco (talk) 06:51, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

An Editor Insists That I Use Peer-Reviewed Sources for Citations
Relata refero has repeatedly deleted my edits to the article on the Treaty of Tripoli for several weeks. Most recently, he is removing my statement that says that Thomas Jefferson ignored the increased tribute demands from the Pasha of Tripoli, even though I have cited 3 sources to back up my statement. He dismisses my sources by saying that 1 is a polemic by Christopher Hitchens, and another is not a peer-reviewed source. He has previously made this complaint about my not using a peer-reviewed source. Apparently, he does not consider articles in "Time" magazine and "Washington Post" as peer-reviewed or authoritative. I have itemized on his Talk page and on the "Treaty of Tripoli" discussion page other examples of bad editing by him. Pooua (talk) 10:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I can't do anything with the Treaty of Tripoli page. Every time that I add material to it, Relata refero guts it. His excuse is that my sources--"Time," "Washington Post," "Archiving Early America"--are polemical, not peer-reviewed sources. He even deleted my quote from "The American Journal of International Law," claiming that by using its general statement on treaties in the specific case of the Treaty of Tripoli amounts to WP:SYNTH. He is demanding that I find a published statement by "The American Journal of International Law" that specifically uses the statement in discussing the Treaty of Tripoli. All he does is delete material--apparently, just the material that I add, no one else's. He does not make any effort to provide any sourced material of his own. Pooua (talk) 08:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Pooua. There are several options you can undertake, especially since you have engaged with this editor in discussion already. I suggest you ask for editor input in one or all of the following areas: 1) 3rd Opinion, a place where editors can ask for feedback from new eyes, 2) WP:RfC, Request for Comment, a similar, but more formally-structured system, or 3) one of the four WikiProjects the article is recognised by at the top of the article's talkpage (post to the talkpages of the project pages). Hope that helps! Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 09:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

westminster committee on iran
Dear Wikipedia / Mediators

An Editor, Lara Love, deleted the page for the Westminster Committee on Iran yesterday. The Committee is not an official parliamentary body nor a campaigning group but aims to fill the gap in between.

I request that the page for The Westminster Committee on Iran be unblocked. It is a well recognised organisation and has had much recent coverage from the Economist to the LA Times as well as being involved in international TV news debates, most recently this week (please do a Google search to reveal some of the recent coverage).

It has support from a number of British and international parliamentarians including the Interparliamentary Union in Geneva. ("the objectives of the Westminster Committee on Iran coincide with those of the IPU, which promotes dialogue to foster understanding and avoid conflict." Anders B. Johnsson (IPU).

It is acting within the stated rules of Wikipedia

I am unfamiliar with the disputes system and would request a referal to the Arbitration committee if this is not resolved.

Kind Regards

Convenor - Westminster Committee, London —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.163.194 (talk) 12:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * User is referring to User talk:The Westminster Committee on Iran. Sbowers3 (talk) 12:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The account has been blocked because the account name is the same as the name of an organisation. This is not allowed in Wikipedia policy, see WP:UN.  The options open to you are explained on the account talk page here .  The easiest option is to just open a new account with a more acceptable name.  If you were trying to create an article for your organisation rather than open an account, please be aware that we advise that articles for organisations are not written by persons associated with that organisation, see WP:COI.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  15:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

problem with harassment
Enthusiastic new member got a little bit bitten Bp E ps - t @ lk 22:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I feel that another editor is harrassing me on my talk page. He (I don't know if it is a he, but for the sake of this email I'll call him a he) has repeatedly left comments that are personal in nature, and accuses me of every wiki violation in the book... nothing he posts on my talkpage is related to the page which we are both editing. Each time I try to redirect back to the article, he sends another personal "attack" (that may be too severe a word in this case)... I have asked him to stop. I have asked him to back up his accusations/allegations. He cannot. I accused him of getting personal and not sticking to editing the page, and provided examples of what he had said to back up my accusation, which he promptly deleted off my talk page. He has contacted me at my personal email outside of wiki, under the guise of "checking to be sure it was really me and not an impostor"....It feels like stalking to me. He has had another page I wrote deleted off wiki under COI claims, which I disagreed with... but it's gone anyway. He has threatened to get me banned from wiki. He accuses me over and over of being in violation of wiki policy, but can't provide any examples. He accused me of having a commercial link on my userpage and threatened to have me kicked off wiki. Two outside editors agreed my userpage is not in violation of wiki policy (I have a link to my home page, a blog, at the bottom). I thought that would be the end of it, but he won't let it go. Is there any way to get him to stop harassing me on my talk page? I'm just trying to edit here, but his constant badgering is disruptive, and, I feel, against wiki etiquette. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks very much, Aeron Hynes AeronM (talk) 15:12, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * AeronM, you quote other editors' contributions, or selected fragments thereof, where you should be using a "diff" (like this). Please provide diffs here, showing what you are concerned about. --Una Smith (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That would seem to be a reasonable request cygnis insignis 16:37, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If the user is referring to me, and not the legion of other editors who have addressed this issue, I am happy to help bring about a resolution. Shame about my RTD, but I should have renamed my email account. cygnis insignis 15:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * AeronM is a very new editor here and almost immediately ran afoul of Montanabw, who has been recruiting other editors to keep AeronM in check. I feel some sympathy for AeronM.--Una Smith (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * And here they all are! Is it possible to get a neutral editor who is not a part of this issue involved please?  It seems a bit pointless that the very editors I am having problems with are the ones addressing my post here. Also, (directed at outside/neutral editors), is it considered vandalism to make edits to my own talk page?  An editor keeps accusing me of this, and i can't find anything on it in wiki...
 * Also, I believe it is considered against wiki policy to keep putting all sorts of warning (and other) tags on my user talk page for the purpose of harassing me. Is this the case? Thank you. AeronM (talk) 01:41, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As said above, it is very hard for outsiders to understand your complaint if you do not provide diffs. Click the page history tab, find the edit in question in the list, click on (last), check that is indeed the edit in question (if not click newer edit or older edit as appropriate), copy and paste the url in your browser address bar here, placing it between square brackets.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  14:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is ongoing and spans many talk pages. To provide diffs on all references would take weeks, and make this page a mile long. In an effort to consolidate the relevant information, I put all the appropriate quotes, with appropriate attributions, on my own user talk page.  That only sparked a new controversy where I have now been accused of refactoring other's comments. I will simplify my question: In general, is there a way to prevent someone from harassing you on Wikipedia?" --AeronM (talk) 23:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, provide example diffs as requested and report them at WP:AN/I.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  16:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the attacks have subsided and tones appear to be more civil of late, so I think the issue is resolved. Thanks for help one and all. --AeronM (talk) 20:18, 28 2008 (UTC)
 * And this is Montanabw, who just found out about all this today. And yes, I asked someone else to initially take a look at an early version of bitless bridle which did in fact contain a significant number of violations of wikipedia guidelines, because I had other fish to fry at the time.  That person made some good faith, sourced edits that were promptly reverted by Aeron, and we were off to the races, so to speak.  Aeron did in fact have a lack of knowledge of wikipedia guidelines, and while I think she is getting better, she still doesn't seem to understand [{WP:NOT]] nor WP:AGF.  Others tried to explain, I tried to explain, I am now exhausted, and have simply given up in sheer despair.  I agree with Aeron to the extent that supplying all diffs, especially with some of the odd edits and possible reverting that went on would be extraordinarily difficult, and because of assorting editing glitches,the whole history would be very hard to unscramble.  I think when one reviews Talk:Bitless bridle as it sits today, you get the general gist, particularly if you look at the history of the talk page. I certainly admit to getting a little tired, crabby and snarky at times, but frankly it was dished back to me double in the form of veiled insults, reverts of my (sourced) contributions, and a general unwillingness by both Aeron and Una to recognize that I am perfectly willing to go above and beyond sourcing when asked in good faith.  I have been able to source many things they have called me on, and anything still unsourced is simply because Aeron has slapped fact tags all over the place and it will take me weeks to source everything, given that I have a real life that I must deal with, a real life that sometimes takes me off wiki for more than 24 hours at a stretch.  I am sick of this whole situation, feel like I have been beating my head against a wall for days and just want it all done, but I will not be painted into the villain here so felt I must respond.   Montanabw (talk) 06:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Fractal compression puppet war
I am involved in an edit war with someone/thing at Fractal compression. He calls my reverts vandalism while acting like a puppet and spamming. I wrote a substantial part of this article a long time ago and was careful to keep it NPOV, now trying to keep it that way I am going to hit 3RR. I am an expert in this field (fractals and computer graphics). The offending user/s is/art Editor5435 and Technodo. Thank you for your attention. Spot (talk) 21:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I suggest you take a look at WP:DR which lists the options open to you. However, your best option is always to try to collaborate rather than confront.  Rather than just wholesale reverting of the whole article to the version you last edited (I think thats what I get from the page history) which just provokes a counter reversion, try concentrating on the edits/facts you really cannot live with, giving reasoned arguments.  It may be much easier to come to a consensus if you concentrate on one point at a time.


 * If you really still get nowhere, then is the time to start a more formal process of Mediation or finally Arbitration.


 * On the sockpuppet issue, it is not allowed to use socks to avoid policy eg 3RR. If you wanted, you could make a report at WP:SSP.  However, this is a tedious process, you will be expected to provide diffs demonstrating that the edits of the two are similar enough to make them likely the same person (not just two people with the same views).  As I say, better to communicate than revert war.

 Sp in ni ng  Spark  14:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you spark, I have tried to focus on the "uprezzing" issue first, starting yesterday, but so far without success. Part of the problem is I feel a sense of urgency. The initial smell of something fishy is being born out by further research. I now rather strongly suspect this page is being used as part of a stock pump and dump fraud going on right now. See and. The company that this wikipedia page is now pimping has a history of stock fraud. I think something more expedient is called for than me trying to reason with them. Is there at least some kind of warning we can put up? Spot (talk) 00:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * That sounds like it is going outside the expertise or power of Wikipedia to deal with. Maybe you should be thinking of alerting the relevant authorities.  However, as far as Wikipedia articles are concerned, unsourced material may be removed by any editor WP:V.  Fraudulent material should be removed immediately without discussion.  I know of no specific policy on that, but I don't think any Administrator would have an argument as long as you can back up your claim.  Sp in ni  ng  Spark  16:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Right well I am not suggesting the wikipedia deal with anything except protecting itself from these folks. And I think we have to do that on our own rather than relying on any authorities. I have another editor (Erik Reckase) now helping me keep the page straight but honestly my time to pursue this is limited. Spot (talk) 18:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've tagged the article to focus the editing, cleaned up the talk page so others can follow it, and started some discussions on problem areas of the article. --Ronz (talk) 19:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Ronz. We have argued him to the point where he relies on a single non-NPOV source which is the company's web page, but he will not relent. I made a RfC but nobody has responded. Fortunately I have a little more time to address this now, and will soon try rewriting the page. Spot (talk) 07:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Possible Malicious Edit on WyvernRail plc Article
I would appreciate advice and assistance with an article I have edited.

I created an entry for “WyvernRail plc” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WyvernRail_plc) back in June last year and last night updated the page with a reference and a company logo. This evening, I saw that the logo had been deleted and the page marked for deletion with the following comment:

''“Probably the wrong template, but I don't see WyvernRail being a very notable company. It's only a stub article, and has been written entirely for publicity by nferguso wyvern (talk • contribs), the companie's publicity manager.”''

I placed a ‘holdon’ tag on the page and placed a reasoned argument on the discussion page but then noticed that the page has now been marked as for deletion with a different message.

I have examined the edit history for the page and note that the principal instigator of the deletions is a user called Bluegoblin7. Having checked Bluegoblin7’s profile, I am greater than 95% confident that I know who this person is and have reason to believe that his actions are less then scrupulous. I can explain more if you require but would prefer if you could examine my contribution and comments on the discussion page and then advise whether I have followed correct procedure.

I must declare an interest in being a director of WyvernRail plc but have attempted to write an article that is both informative and unbiased.

Nferguso wyvern (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2008 (UTC) Neil Ferguson-Lee


 * Whether or not the nomination for deletion is malicious, or who did it, is a bit beside the point. The principle on wikipedia is to asume good faith until the editor actually does something openly malicious. See WP:FAITH.  The speedy deletion was indeed unreasonable (it is for worthless articles that an admin can delete without discussion) and you quite rightly challenged it.  However, it is still open for any editor to nominate an article for deletion (AfD) whereupon there will be a proper discussion.  I urge you to follow the link in the template to the AfD discussion page for the article and put your views.  The consensus among editors there at the moment is to merge the article with Ecclesbourne Valley Railway.


 * On the face of it, I have to say I agree with the consensus to merge, especially as you admit to conflict of interest. While not forbidden, it is strongly discouraged for you to write articles on your own company, see WP:COI.  Does your company do anything else besides run this railway? However, some suggestions you might want to look at to improve the article:


 * Assert notability: other than for running the railway that the AfD wants to merge anyway
 * Better references: Inline references to establish each fact is always good.
 * Provide pictures or graphics


 * Saying you are doing all or some of that at the AfD should help enormously.  Sp in ni ng  Spark  14:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply which was very much appreciated; I am going to follow your advice. Regarding merging, I think I can justify WyvernRail remaining as a separate topic, but do appreciate the arguments put forward.

Nferguso wyvern (talk) 15:37, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * JUSTIFY?!?! HOW? . There is consensus among editors to merge it, and therefore wikiquette suggests that it is a good idea to merge them. Also, as you are the press officer, I still don't think you should be allowed to edit the article, except for typos, factual errors etc. Have you read WP:OWN, WP:COI etc? I presume not. And, by the way, I don't know why you say you know who I am as I have never been to the EVR, and do not know who you are. i found out your role on the website http://www.e-v-r.com. I don't see why you're making a fuss - you are a new editor to WP, editing only Wyvern related articles, and therefore it tells me you know nothing about WP policies and guidlines. Do your homework, and then if you still think i am being malicious and not acting in good faith and for the benefit of Wikipedia, then tell me.
 * I have been contacted by User:Shanner191 to say that I was being blamed for these edits, and that I would be banned from the railway and my parents would be rung. Erm... well, check your blinking facts mate! Shanner191 has also asked me to say that although he shares my Username on other sites, swtrain:, scoutwiki: and wikia: to name a few, and that he has written about the EVR there. His only activities on WP so far are to speak to me and to upload an image of Southampton 45 at the National Tramway Museum.
 * End of speech. Please reconsider your very stupid actions - if you get blocked/banned, DON'T BLAME ME!!!
 *  BG  7   16:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Editor who disagrees with the rules
There is a dispute going on in Self-replicating machine where one of the editors (also the inventor of the device in question) disagrees with wikipedia's rules on citing sources and verifiability. The whole section on F-Units is sourced with self published articles on geocities and a patent filing. Any attempts to point out these issues have been met with extremely verbose responses (and reverts) arguing that the rules themselves are wrong and thus do not apply. Please see the bottom half of the talk page. The user is named "Charles Michael Collins" or Fraberj.

What is the best way to resolve this without bringing it to arbitration or is requesting arbitration the best option.

Until yesterday I had never read this article nor have I ever interacted with any of the other editors so I consider myself a rather neutral third party, but I fear this dispute will not resolve itself easily.

I am maily asking this for advice from a more senior editor because I wish to become a better wikipedia editor myself and dealing with disputes like this seems to be one of the more important tasks on the site. I believe one of wikipedia's greatest strengths lies in the fact that most of the information on the site is referenced very well.

Thanks, Bobprime (talk) 23:13, 23 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not a senior editor or anything, but one thing I noticed is that the F-units section of this article unbalances it and makes it look unencyclopaedic. At a minimum, the F-units section should be summarized in Self-replicating machine, and moved to an independant article.  Of course, the question of verifiability would still need to be addressed.


 * Webbbbbbber (talk) 00:21, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * These were my two main complaints, that is why I added the templates. If Fraberj is unable to address the verifiability issues I am not sure what to do.  From his user page and the history on his talk page it sounds like he has previously had problems with wikipedia policy.  Should he not wish to abide by wikipedia policy what would be the next step?


 * Bobprime (talk) 01:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The various escalating options are at WP:DR. Citing sources is pretty fundamental to Wikipedia and is heavily emphasised in the Five Pillars of Wikipedia. The options I would recommend you try;


 * get an uninvolved editor (but ideally subject knowledgeable editor) to review the page. If the page belongs to a project that would be the ideal place to go.  Otherwise, ask for someone here to do it  -sorry, not me, don't have the time at the moment.
 * Formal or Informal Mediation (although the other editor will need to agree to be bound by the results for this to work).
 * Formal Arbitration
 *  Sp in ni ng  Spark  17:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I think we have got this resolved and your suggestion to look for an expert on the project page will probably be my next option should the current resolution not hold.  You can mark this as resolved now.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobprime (talk • contribs) 01:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

james ellison motorcycle racer
Someone has made false allegations on the article of James Ellison Motorcycle racer It says that his website was shut down because of Harpies and Rabid fans. This is liabelous and I want to know who made this statement. The reason it was sut down was because the person running it suffered a bereavment in his family and can presently not be contacted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.159.42 (talk) 09:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The allegation was removed. Please note that any negative or controversial content (especially in an article on a living person, as this article is) must be sourced using high quality references, and must be written with a care not to give a disproportionate amount of space to critics, to avoid the effect of representing a minority view as if it were the majority one. Furthermore, without those high quality sources, such negative content must be removed with prejudice, the burden for sourcing it is on the person wishing to add it, and removing it is not subject to the three revert rule as once disputed, re-adding it is vandalism. Thus, you may remove such material if it is unsourced immediately and with prejudice.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:40, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Manga images discussion
Help resolving is requested in a debate on the use of manga covers in articles at Talk:List of Hunter × Hunter chapters. Tintor2 (talk) tagged the page as having excessive images, which seemed incorrect to me, so I attempted to start a multi-person discussion on the matter to reach a consciouses. However, User:Sephiroth BCR (User talk:Sephiroth BCR) took matters completely in their own hands and deleted all the images from the page, threatening to label me as a vandal if I replaced them. I'd like help keeping this from becoming more of an edit war, and work to establish conscious on the situation. Thank you! Shimawa zen (talk) 02:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Please help with Sterling Jewelers Inc. page
Help! I've never been in an editing war before, but this may turn into one. The page is for Sterling Jewelers Inc., and it is getting tiring trying to deal with this brand new user. The User:Biodole keeps adding in a "litigation" section to this article. The section he adds is on one superfluous lawsuit that has absolutely no bearing to the article itself (a history and description of the company). He/She is not using the Discussion page, but I am. The user has never edited any pages besides this, so it definitely looks like complaining or just spreading negativity. Please help me! Malachite84 (talk) 06:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

possible breach of WP:LINKS
Some of the recent edits by 76.90.75.42 appear to be there solely to promote California Cryobank, thus possibly breaching WP:NPOV and WP:LINKS. I know there's a fine line between what's relevant and acceptable, and what is spamming, but this appears to cross that line, especially by placing their link above others. There are several other sperm banks that could also be linked. Request assistance.

Ml66uk2 (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's the contribution page of the IP in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/76.90.75.42.  (Is there a cleaner way to make that link?)


 * They look like commercial links to me and if they showed up in a page that I watch and edit I'd probably just revert them. There are *lots* of sperm banks in the country and I can't think of a decent encyclopedic reason why Wikipedia should be linking to one or two or some other tiny subset of them.  JohnInDC (talk) 15:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've gone ahead and removed those and some other links. It looks like someone already did that a month or two ago, but some reappeared. Ml66uk2 (talk) 17:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yuku article
Hello,

I have experience from running message boards on Yuku/ezboard the last eight years. I was thinking I could contribute to the article about Yuku, since it is a relatively new application. After a while I have found out why it seems impossible to get anything done on that article. Anything I do is criticized and corrected, in my opinion without reason. At least not with very constructive criticism. I admit I have been really provoked and said a lot of stupid things on the talk page, and I'm sorry about that.

However, today I finally understood why I have this problem with the other editor. He has been globally banned from the Yuku system. Banned He is however, very good at balancing on the wiki guidelines. But, he makes it terribly difficult to edit the article if the contribution is positive or is making less of his negative points.

I cannot understand how it is possible to continue edit that article together with a banned member. On the other hand, the article should be improved!

Any advise would be appreciated! Please see his profile: User:RichardHMorris User:Askeladden2006 --&#123;&#123;subst:Babel-7&#124;en-3&#124;no&#124;nn-2&#124;sv-2&#124;da-2&#124;de-1&#124;fr-1}} (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello and thank you for coming here for help. You understand that he has not been banned on Wikipedia, right?  The fact that he was banned on a different web-page is irrelevant, try to focus on the actions of users on Wikipedia, not their actions off Wikipedia.  The content you're trying to add is unsourced.  In other words, since you haven't verified the information, anybody can remove it since the burden is on you to verify the information.  If you wish for your edits to stick around, try to find links to reliable/reputable sources and add those links as citations to the article.  It's best that you continue to discuss these conflicts of opinion on the talk page and I congratulate you for using the talk page.  ~a (user • talk • contribs) 17:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes of course I understand that. What I don't understand is how we are supposed just to sit down watching him using his hatred to write articles at wiki. Nothing personal from my end.

Yuku has deliberately made extensive use of CSS so that people can customise their boards and profiles using it. It's perfectly legitimate. CSS is pure design. And CSS is designed to give far more power over far more aspects of design than plain html. I don't understand why it is necessary to have any source confirming that ? It is plain knowledge about what CSS really is about. Yuku encourage users to customize their CSS. That is why the have two separate forums to help them customize the CSS coding. Skin CSS customisingI forgot to sign and say thank you! :-)--&#123;&#123;subst:Babel-7&#124;en-3&#124;no&#124;nn-2&#124;sv-2&#124;da-2&#124;de-1&#124;fr-1}} (talk) 20:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Foreign language links
What is the right way to treat references or external links to pages written in a non-English language? In Diskin Orphanage there is an http link to a Hebrew Wikipedia article. (The same article is listed as both an EL and a source.) Should it have an English translation of its title? Should it be an interwiki link such as he:בית היתומים דיסקין? Should it be preceded with a language icon: ? Sbowers3 (talk) 16:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a suggestion but I would use both, without refering to the interwiki as a source. For example you could give the hebrew name in the opening  (Beit HaYatomim Diskin and interwiki link it) and give the usual interwiki link at the bottom of the page. I hope that makes sense Bp E ps -  t @ lk 10:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of Changes on Resurrection
Taking a breath here.

INFURIATED.

DJClayworth has massacred--that is the only word for it--many of my comments from the entry on Resurrection, claiming that they are not "neutral"; but I have been able to find at least a DOZEN statements in that article that are not neutral at all. Yet they have been accepted.

It took me probably an hour to write those comments; and, within the space of maybe 1 or 2 minutes, all of my work was wiped out. No questions asked. No suggestions. No warning. Nothing.

Just wiped out.

I really need to know very quickly whether the information I am posting will NEVER be allowed to be posted; or whether certain words can be added in order to satisfy the 'neutral' perspective.

What is most infuriating is that Clayworth has absolutely NO understanding of what he is attempting to edit. He has not studied the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices for some 30 years, as I have, but he assumes that he knows enough to exterminate my writings.

It would be like me going through a book on the mathematics of relativity theory or quantum theory and willy nilly deleting shapes that I do not particularly appreciate.

Of course, in the final analysis, it is probably too late now to prevent the full-scale war between Judaeo-Christian civilization and Islamic civilization which originates in the LIES told about the Doctrine of "resurrection".

But I have an ethical responsibility to try.

Any assistance you can provide would be appreciated.

Michael J. Cecil (talk) 17:46, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * There are others who can comment in greater detail on this but a quick look at the page suggests that the subject matter is a sensitive one and that material edits should be therefore be added incrementally, and only after discussion with other editors of the page. Bearing in mind that Wikipedia operates on the principle of consensus, it is easy to see how wholesale edits such as yours would not go down easily.  In addition, you may have run afoul of the general prohibition on entries based on one's own original research - see WP:OR.  And while I am not qualified to comment on whether your edits were or were not neutral, you should take a look at the Wikipedia policy on neutral points of view WP:NPOV for guidance.


 * My suggestion would be to return to the Talk page and try to engage the other editors in a dialogue (multilogue?) concerning the edits you'd like to make. (Also if it is any comfort, your typing efforts have not vanished into nothingness.  They are there under the History tab of the page and can easily be extracted for reintroduction if and when consensus is reached.)  JohnInDC (talk) 18:10, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As JohnInDC said, your edits have not been lost - they are still available through the History tab. Some additional comments:
 * You apparently typed ~ after your edits. You don't do that in articles; that is done only on Talk pages.
 * With one exception, you edits cited no references. It's always important to provide sources. The more controversial the article or the edits to an article, the more necessary it is to cite your sources.
 * The one reference you added was apparently written by you, which shows a possible conflict of interest. More importantly, you did not include the publisher, ISBN number, or some way for other editors to find the reference. Sbowers3 (talk) 21:03, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Just to complete the story here, the theory that Michael J. Cecil added to the article (describing it as a fact) is a fringe theory that he himself has proposed in a recent self-published book. See DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Unresposible editing Al Munkar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Munkar I undid the edit Im sure it will be changed back. the information is easily verified KAOSKTRL:KAOSKTRL (talk) 01:22, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I've removed the passage from Talk:Munkar too, but for quite reasonable grounds - WP:COPY - Don't copy large sections of any copyrighted text. Just use short passages to explain a point. Hope you understand. Bp E ps - t @ lk 11:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Image:Balboa Park.jpg usage cleanup
When editing an article associated with Balboa Park, I noticed Image:Balboa Park.jpg has restrictive licensing which is being violated. It would be nice to keep the image. I tagged it for deletion so someone could tidy it up. But the uploading editor isn't currently active, and I now would rather not do the cleanup myself. I have stumbled upon a similar historical image and both images might be interesting together, but I now have a little conflict of interest so shouldn't clean it up myself. Could someone follow the license restrictions and save the image? My image will in a few minutes be in the Balboa Park article in case it is useful in one of the forbidden articles. -- SEWilco (talk) 02:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The image is certainly not correctly licenced and I doubt that the copyright holder would want to as they are selling the picture on their site. take a look at Commons Bilboa Park there must be some thing you can use there. Bp E ps - t @ lk 11:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they're selling a higher resolution picture. The Image page's Fair use section specifies two pages where we can use it.  Currently more than two pages use it.  -- SEWilco (talk) 12:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I remember the present system for acquiring photographs is to have them under a CC-sa-3.0 or GFDL licence. Only in exceptional circumstances are we supposed to use copyrighted images as WP:FU. Looking at commons earlier, there were quite a few pictures licenced freely, so I can't see the rationale for keeping the picture anyway. Bp E ps - t @ lk 13:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone with a good camera and weather could create a new photo. The Balboa Park article needs work and that will draw some editor's attention sooner or later, and the location of the camera is both obvious and popular.  Someone will probably make a replacement.  -- SEWilco (talk) 07:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

article Christel Wegner
Hi, we need some help in a dispute on the Christel Wegner article between me and Redhill54 on the one hand and user Basil Tyco on the other. We tried to reference everything fro the original, but Basil Tyco reverts to his version again and again. Redhill54 and I have been communicating, but we don't know the Wikipedia-system well enough to ask for a ban of user Basil Tyco. http://www.johanneswilm.org -- Johannes Wilm 05:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johanneswilm (talk • contribs)


 * I had a look at the article and did some basic formatting on the page. Otherwise your text seems a Neutral Point of View.  From the talk page there seems to be some debate whether other editors have a Conflict of Interest.  It doesn't appear to me like that just a matter of what information the article should contain.


 * Revert Warring is a different matter, If an editor reverts (goes back to a former version of an article more than a couple of times in a day because of a content dispute then you can be Blocked from editing for a few hours by an administrator. If you have problems with Page reverting you can go to WP:AN3 and give the details to an admin.  Good luck with the article, it was nice and sucinct about a very ugly and foolish statement.  Bp E ps -  t @ lk 09:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Now user Basil Tyco has served me a final warning before blocking my username for vandalizing the article, again completely without discussing the unsubstantiated changes he has made. I have changed most of it again and added references, but I tried to keep Basil Tyco's sentence structure in place, which means that the description of the conflict appears twice in the article. I guess that that is common in Wikipedia articles? http://www.johanneswilm.org -- Johannes Wilm 16:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johanneswilm (talk • contribs)


 * I'm not sure why Basil has done that. Very bizarre because he doesn't explain the vandalism. I personally would ask him to remove it or properly annote the warning defining what he sees as vandalism.  As far as the first section of the article, the manual of style says that "You provide an accessible overview" (see also WP:STYLE) of the entire article.  Thereby yes, you always repeat yourself on Wikipedia. Otherwise now, I can't see what further assistance anybody can give you here.  You can always contact me on my Talk page and maybe help to mediate before you tag each others pages to choking point.  Kind regards, Bp E ps -  t @ lk 23:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Abusive behavior by User:JuJube
abtuse request about a highly monitored/editor page Bp E ps - t @ lk 01:18, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

This editor (User:JuJube) has used abusive language towards me. Additionally, this editor continues to remove my edits to the Zangief page.

I have provided a valid reference for my edit, although this doesn't seem to concern this user.

Here's an example of what constitutes "talk" for this user.

''You want to get blocked for the same crap you got blocked for before? Discuss it on the talk page, but it's pretty much certain you'll never get The Later Years on the page''. User:JuJube (talk) 05:34, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This is not the way to begin a discussion with another Wikipedia editor.

Tdws4050 (talk) 12:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC) # Tdws4050


 * WP:CIVIL doesn't really apply here, all though in an ideal Wikipedia everbody would be full of love and collaborate and listen to every argument. I don't think that collegehumor.com is an ideal source (it appears just once as an outside link External Links. Wikipedia is strict on the sites we use as source see Reliable sources -- Bp E ps -  t @ lk 12:48, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I admit to losing my patience with this guy when he first came, and even apologized for it (as a look at his user talk's history will testify), but another editor agreed that his addition was not a valid one, and Tdws got blocked for 3RR. And his first edit after coming off the unblock was to make the same change again.  No discussion on Talk:Zangief, just continues the same behavior that got him blocked in the first place.  I think this complaint is spurious. JuJube (talk) 01:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Help with dispute resolution
There has been an editor (Electron9) who is posting unsubstantiated derogatory comments about one product on the Wikipedia page for a company (Silicon Image). This seems to violate several Wikipedia principals: neutrality, verifiability, and non-soapbox. I also question whether an individual's problems with a product line is notable enough for inclusion.

In any case, I placed a mark on the Silicon Image page flagging that the neutrality and factual accuracy of the claims were disputed, and put information in the talk page on why I disputed it. Electron9 unilaterally removed my disputation flag without any discussion.

It seems that Electron9 may have a personal axe to grind of some sort. However, as I understand it, that sort of thing doesn't belong in Wikipedia.

How can this be resolved?

UsersManual (talk) 19:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Things have settled into a normal discussion now. So, I don't think we need help at this point.

UsersManual (talk) 07:13, 3 March 2008 (UTC)