Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests/Archive 66

Unacceptable references to inane content
I am currently involved in a potential edit war on a quotation in the Islamic terrorism article. In particular, it regarding the following quote:
 * Certain Scholars such as Zakir Naik have said all Muslims should be terrorist in the context of war and fighting evils of society. When he was asked about the verse


 *  "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies". . 


 * He replied.


 *  "Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber . A Muslim should be a terrorist for the Robber and all other anti-social elements." 



. See Citing sources. Note than whenever you make an edit there is text saying "If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." All regular editors experience their edits being changed or removed by others. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Why don't you join the discussion on the talk page at Talk:Vox AC30. See what the other editors think. It looks like the consensus at the moment is to not have a long list and to stick to those who uses the amp consistently. Jezhotwells (talk) 05:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Image Legality?
I was just browsing some images and stumbled over some whose content surprised me. I am presently employed in developing an image library and one of the issues we face is determining whether we may use the images we possess. Almost any image that contains members of the public is problematic as we need permission statements/forms before we may use them despite the fact that we are not publishing to the internet, at least not at present. In contrast, the imagery I noted earlier on your site has been released live to the world with identifiable/near identifiable individuals and provides their location at a specific point in time. While no names are mentioned I very much doubt the original photographer asked the subjects permission before taking the image. I accept the likelihood of your being sued for invasion of privacy etc is remote (I'm not a lawyer so cannot give you the implications, details and lawyerspeak) but it seems an unwise risk. Is the image I encountered a rarity or have you no problem with these types of images? Thanks. 203.25.1.208 (talk) 05:19, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that WP:Media copyright questions may be the best place to start. You will also need to state specifically which files you are talking about, by providing the URLs. Jezhotwells (talk) 05:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It's not copyright as I think of it, but I was not sure where to ask.203.25.1.208 (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Editor conduct in regards to edit disucssion
I just wanted to check my position, regarding a recent edit. Although I still think the article is generally wrong (although it is a technicality admitedly) I have come out of the whole discussion with a rather sour taste in my mouth.

I made an edit, which I considered correct, but was technically wrong it seems. The first time I realised this was when I received a warning on my personal page from the user, warning me that I could be potentially blocked. I then attempted to discuss the edit/blocking message on their page.

The reply I received is the reason for my request.

Firstly, the user edited my message, to allow him to insert his own retorts into the comment of the message. Which made it very hard to reply. The retorts were childish, mocking,offensive and completely inflammatory. Ranging from calling me a liar, to questioning my intelligence.

Finally, they then deleted my reply, claiming they were "vandalism", and labelling me a troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Quartet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cjmooney9

Cjmooney9 (talk) 12:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Please can you post a succinct one or two line request with a link to an article and then it will be looked at. I don't think many will want to tramp through a long ramble like that above. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:09, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for reducing this request to readable proportions, please do not remove comments by others when editoing your own posts. So what do you want here? If you think an editor is being uncivil take it to WP:WQA. But the regulars there will look hard at both editors in such a dispute. Often the best thing in a squabble like this is to let it die down by walking away. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I really not that bothered about any of it to be honest. I don't even edit the site very much, and will use it even less from now on.

I just want to know whether there is any basis behind Editors putting "you will be banned" messages on new Editors walls every time they see an edit they don't like. The problem being, new users actually believe these people are acting from a position of authority (as in working for the site). Especially with the templates and fonts they also use to make it look even more "official". Or is it just one Editor throwing his weight around to intimidate another Editor?

I'm just a bit alarmed about this practice of Editors doing this sort of thing. While making no attempt to actually discuss the edit at all.

Cjmooney9 (talk) 16:23, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The purpose of user warnings is to guide good-faith testers and dissuade bad-faith vandals. Gernerally they are used to alert users to potentially harmful edits that they may have made. In your case, you removed a large chunk of text and several citations from an article, rather than adding a  or  tag to the copy, which would have been preferable. Perhaps Quartet chose the wrong level of warning - he should have used a lower level warning - or, even better, he could have skipped using a templated warning and simply left his own message on your talk page alerting you to the issue. Either way I would suggest you follow the advice above and take it with a grain of salt. Repeatedly restoring unwanted content to this users talk page badgering them about the edit and other "rules" (that they're not actually breaking)  will probably not accomplish anything positive, and can also encourage further disruption. It is often best to simply let the matter rest especially if other disruption stops.--Yankees76 (talk) 17:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, this is probably the wrong forum to be discussing this, as suggested above. My complaint was merely the users attitude, and general rudeness towards me during the supposed discussion process. I was quite happy to admit that I was totally wrong in the way I deleted the line. However, I still had issue with the content. And when I tried to approach the user, and inform him of my issue on the subject, I got little more than mockery, sarcasm, and being continually told that I was too stupid to have my position considered.

Off the top of my head, these are the rules on these edit discussions.

1: Users should not be approached personally on edits. It should be done on the article page only. 2: All edits should be treated as they have been done in good faith. 3: The discussion should be polite and civil. 4: Discussion should be about the edit, and not the user that did it 5: Editors should refrain from inflammatory comments and rudeness.

Cjmooney9 (talk) 18:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, not everyone you run into on here is going to be smiles and chocolate, especially when you give them directions on what they should and should not do in the future, and cite Wikipedia "page ownership" rules that quite frankly do not exist or apply in this situation (per this post on Quartet's talk page ). When you post on someones talk page and make demands like "do not put this sort of thing on my or anyone elses personal pages in future" you're inviting just the response you got. I'm not saying it's right, however neither his nor your actions in this situation are going to earn either of you a barnstar. Posting 35 messages in 5 days on his talk page is not going to cool down the situation, it's only inviting more uncivil behaviour. Sometimes you just need to walk away.

Occasionally, on Wikipedia, despite everyone agreeing that we should not engage in personal attacks, harsh words get flung around&mdash;occasionally by longstanding contributors, but more often by newcomers. There are various ways to deal with this:


 * 1) Just ignore it. Name-calling may be offensive but it is not very helpful or mature.  Go about your business and do not worry about it; you are not required to respond.
 * 2) Politely ask the person who you feel has insulted you to retract what they said. Sometimes people say something insulting by accident, not realizing that their words could be taken in a certain way. Other times people will change the way they act when they realize they have offended someone. That said, it is rarely useful to demand an apology or retraction. If you yourself, through accident or anger, insult someone, an apology might smooth things over. If you sincerely meant the insult and cannot honestly apologize, sometimes it is best to fall silent. If that does not work, try refocusing on the issue at hand; try to be more specific about what action you disagree with, rather than insulting the person.
 * 3) Instead of reacting to the insult with a return insult, or getting upset, try to concentrate on figuring out why they insulted you. In most cases, they may just be kidding you.  If that is not the case, then try not to let their problem(s) become yours.  We all have enough problems in our lives.

--Yankees76 (talk) 19:33, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I have no real issue with the user. I was a tad offended, but it's not something that I'm going to be thinking about in the near future. I said numerous times (if you care to check) "Let's draw a line under this and end this conversation now". You know. Anyway, let's live and learn......

I think it's a real issue though. Sadly 39'000 editors left wikipedia in 2009 alone. The site simply can't and won't survive without inexperienced editors, making mistakes on articles. Experienced users need to be more forgiving. Not everyone knows as much as them.

There really is absolutely nothing fun or interesting in going on to a subject that you know a lot about, making an edit in good faith, and then receiving a message from an experienced editor threatening you with being banned as you broke wikipedia rule 456AZIL/4.2......? you know. Or making an edit and an experienced editor just reverting it as it technically broke rule 5463534/3L. You know, that's your 39'000 people leaving every year.

In true wikipedia style, I'll leave you with some source information on the subject. As it's quite eye opening.

http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/11/26/wikipedias-volunteer-story/comment-page-2/#comment-1938

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/davesmith_au.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1230790/Fears-future-Wikipedia-49-000-volunteers-leave-site.html

Quotes:

"Quite simply, new editors are treated with contempt and discouraged from contributing if their edits are not consistent with the highly conventional beliefs of the editors who have seized control of the site/particular topics. "

"New users are being constantly bothered by more established users, many of who will band together to address a technical issue they don’t agree with, even if they at first had failed" (Not me, funnily. A comment on the wikipedia blog).

Anyway, let's draw a line under all of this, and get on to more interesting things.

However, I'd suggest that, in future, official looking warnings, threatening people with bans (I actually thought the user was a member of wikipedia staff when I first saw it) should not be used as the first point of contact between two editors, in regards to an edit issue. This would have been resolved in 2 minutes, if the user simply explained on the article discussion page what I did wrong.

take care

Cjmooney9 (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Longevity myths help request
This is arguably one of the biggest messes of an article I’ve ever seen. Problems with it are noted everywhere and looking through the talk and extensive archive it appears there will be no end to it. It is really just a bunch of POV pushing. You have a few editors, the most notable being JJB saying that the term “myth” is being misused and plainly are against religion being referred to as myth and you have Ryoung122, a gerontology expert who takes issue with religion being referred to as anything but. It seems like RNPOV would cover this pretty well but so far it hasn't.

I would personally split the article to resolve the issue. Create a page for Religious Longevity covering the various religious beliefs around longevity, and one for Disputed Longevity Claims which would claim the rest and is especially appropriate given that most of the article is contemporary by comparison. I would suggest this on the talk myself but I am certain given this all seems to be about one side winning over another I would be shot down.

Thanks, PeRshGo (talk) 13:08, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So - you want someone here to go to the talk page to suggest this for you? Why?  I suggest you use the talk page, taht is whaqt it is there for. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Video assistance
Is there a project similar to the Graphic Labs image workshop but for videos? i.e., where you can request help with uploading videos if you don't have the software installed yourself? r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 15:01, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not aware that Wikipedia has a project devoted to working on video content in that way, but Commons does host videos in Ogg Theora and GIF only. As these are free software you can install them yourself.  This page on Commons  might be a good place to look first. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This link gives some further information and also this WP:Creation and usage of media files. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. A user I was talking to has a video (on Flickr) he might be interested in uploading but apparently he had some trouble getting the Theora software installed. I did give him some of those links, but mainly I was curious if there were other users who could upload the video for him. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 21:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Three sections at The Ku Klux Klan In Prophecy are of concern
1. Introduction and Two Klippings (both headings) are direct quotes with no commentary. Klippings is not a word. Under it, and without commentary from any secondary source, is the repetition of two racist jokes that insult African Americans. The question is this: does the text under either or both headings, quotes from early 19th c. book, belong in an encyclopedia? 2. This article copies every illustration in this early 20th century book and places it in this article without secondary source commentary. Is the purpose of Wikipedia to copy and paste text and illustrations from books that are out of copyright? Or is there another purpose?

I am interested in reading what other editors have to say about including gratuitous jokes that are racist in Wikipedia articles. Without commentary, this article includes several such jokes and the persons who have repeatedly re-added them have not entered reasons why they belong in an encyclopedia.

I would add that this article has been up for more than a year. I spent some time trying to improve it and was reverted repeatedly by user who claims the long term intent is to improve article, though over the course of more than a year, has added nothing but original text and images copied verbatim from the out of copyright book. I am wondering if the images etc. belong in Wiki Sources rather than in context of what is supposed to be encyclopedia. Skywriter (talk) 23:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree and have removed the racist content and images.Cathar11 (talk) 23:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The Ku Klux Klan In Prophecy violates WP-SELFPUBLISH in that it is a self-published booklet that attacks Jews and Catholics. There is a separate article on the author and this article ought to be merged into the author bio.Skywriter (talk) 19:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I am the article originator and have been the primary editor of the article Ku Klux Klan in prophecy. I also request review, assistance and collaboration from other editors with this article. I agree that the material in this book is darkly provocative. It's also quite complex as it combines 1920s feminism with racism, anti-Catholicism, anti-Semitism, prohibitionism and white supremacy. Five scholars have published on portions of the book. It's a difficult and charged topic to try and capture from both a neutral and non-OR perspective. But I am trying. I have repeatedly agreed that the article needs work. 95% of Skywriter's and Cathar11's solutions to these issues have been to delete most of the article and then claim the article is insufficient for retention. I desire to improve the article in a collaborative way. Please offer your assistance. Buz lightning (talk) 19:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This article was created as a way of pulicising racist, anti semetic and and anti-catholic viewpoint of a self published author by an editor who gratuitously included anti black jokes and cartoons as part of the article. It is the lowest common denominator type of article with no useful content that couldn't be transferred to the authors article. It was created over nine months ago and no effort was made to copyedit the content. Buz lightning is effectively a single topic editor and has only created or edited similar racist conected sites. Cathar11 (talk) 20:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that the article meets the notability guidelines. The references given do not give page numbers for the books and the journal article cite is linked to a list of journal articles rather than being correctly cited to the journal itself. Reading the journal article it merely mentions this book in passing, in fact none of the references support the notability of the book. I would recommend that it is AfD'd and merged with the article on the author. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Fellow Editors: As you can see emotions are high and we could certainly use your involvement.  Cathar11's comments about both my intentions and editing efforts are misleading and insulting.  Please help. Buz lightning (talk) 20:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have nominated the article at WP:Articles for deletion/The Ku Klux Klan In Prophecy as it does not meet the notability guidelines for books. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Information regarding updating the page & restricting others
I am an employee of COMSATS Institute of Information Technology, working as Assistant - Deputy Registrar, at Registrar Office Islamabad, and want to upgrade the information regarding COMSATS Institute of Information Technology available at wikipedia & restrict the other readers to make a change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawar (talk • contribs) 12:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, that isn't how Wikipedia works. It is not a trade directory, it is an encyclopaedia which anyone can edit. If you have information to add then please do so, but make sure that it is referenced by reliable and verifiable sources.  Also please be aware of the conflict of interest guidelines.  With regards to restricting other editors, the only situation in which that might happen is editors who vandalise may be blocked if reported  at WP:AIV. I shall put some useful links on your talk page. And please remember to sign your posts with four (~)s. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Removal of major content on Wikipedia page about Daniel Vovak
Today there has been some users who have removed major stories about Daniel Vovak in The Washington Post, Washington Times, WBAL, etc. I believe this content should remain and would appreciate some editors who would offer their opinions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Vovak DanielVovak (talk) 14:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * My first opinion is that you should have stopped editing this article a long time ago. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  15:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks like a squabble about removing puffery. Sort it out on the talk page and don't forget that you have a major conflict of interest here. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * For ref, puffery, it is very,very,very bad to use lots of meaningless adjectives too as one very,very,very really good example. If you can source it fine but often this is just postivie name calling which is little more encyclopedic than derogatory name calling Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Puff in the Washington Post? The first non-internet media outlet in America to break the Lewinsky scandal?DanielVovak (talk) 22:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The article is not about the Lewinsky nonsense, it's about you. Notability is not contagious; you don't become notable by writing an unfilmed script about a notable topic. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  22:23, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Obviously, this page is no longer mine, so I am done with this and somewhat retiring. Seriously, I went to 96 counties in Iowa out of 99, and met most journalists in the State. Editors, I just ask that you be fair and wig out, laughing as you edit edit edit edit edit! There's a ton of material out there about me for use another time. If I knew you all better, I'd send you all wigs and introduce you to some actresses I know, but those are for future days. DanielVovak (talk) 22:36, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The article was never "yours" in the first place. – ukexpat (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It looked from the citations, assuming they were real and the article I rmember, that notability was established by non-local coverage. Puffery can be fixed with editing, notability issues require more sourcing. Note that puffery is quite common and if it can be sourced fine ( " the greatest show on earth") but the article can't be contaminated with your own extra words to any great extent. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 22:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Jimmy Nichols
Hi, I am writing to request feedback on my article that was deleted. I have created my article again in the userspace draft section so I am asking for feedback in order to be able to post it with out it being deleted again. All of the information is factual, and in my userspace draft, I have provided more reliable sources. I have read the requirements for the sources and have updated mine to fulfill the requirements. I would appreciate feedback as soon as possible.

Thank you BRMG (talk) 16:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC) BRMG


 * It is still not clear that the subject meets the notability requirements set out in WP:MUSICBIO. – ukexpat (talk) 16:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That is the draft article at User:BRMG/Jimmy Nichols, right? You need to explain what he is notable for.  Specifically the subject needs to meet at least one of the criteria listed at WP:MUSICBIO as ukexpat says. I see nothing in the draft article that approaches that standard. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:05, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Please assist
I need someone to help me with my article "Jimmy Nichols," which keeps getting deleted. Please read over it and give feedback so that I can post it live. It is currently on userspace. Thanks.

BRMG (talk) 20:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC)BRMG


 * See two posts above... – ukexpat (talk) 20:42, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I posted more notable information. Does this qualify? Thanks so much.

BRMG (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)BRMG
 * No - there is nothing notable there. I am sorry but session musicians do not generally meet the the WP:MUSICBIO guidelines - you have read them haven't you?  A few such as Bobby Keys, Charlie McCoy, Scotty Moore do, mainly due to regular appearances with major artists, but thousands of others do not.  This is not to say that they are not good musicians, many are well known within the music community but they really are not encyclopaedic subjects. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Acronym -- Addition of
Would you accept the Acronym:

ASS standing for Attractive Sitting Surface.

If not, totally understand.

Cheers

Maurits de Blank —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjbinmiami (talk • contribs) 20:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Is it notable? – ukexpat (talk) 20:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Typo in move request. How do I fix it?
I have made a move request for 'List of universities in London' to 'List of universities and higher education colleges in London', but embarrassingly included a typo in the 'move to' page ('universisties'). I have tried editing the page on 'Wikipedia: Requested Moves', but this is changed back by the bot. I have tried deleting and re-entering the move template with the correction, but this seems not to work. Could somebody please show me how to make the correction, or make it for me? Thank you. ThomasL (talk) 12:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks like someone has sorted it at WP:Requested moves. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Aha. I think deleting and re-entering may have worked after a delay.  Thank you for checking.ThomasL (talk) 14:48, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

BLP with no sources since 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Collier_%28political_author%29 has had no sources at all since 2006 and has been tagged since 2008 for having no citations.

Is this OK or should the article be taken down? Skywriter (talk) 03:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well you could look for sourcing material yoruself and make it into a better article. Or you could read up on WP:Deletion policy and nominate it for deletion.  I would suggest the former approach. Jezhotwells (talk) 07:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Added refs and bibliography- removed tag. Now OK.Cathar11 (talk) 00:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Michael Jackson Albums Discography page
There is a conflict in this page with me and Cubfan789. In these page there are some small discussions:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Michael_Jackson_album_discography#Page_Style
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cubfan789#MJ_Albums

The version that i support is this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Jackson_album_discography&oldid=336617182 ), the version that he support is this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson_album_discography ) Simone Jackson (talk) 18:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You would probably bee best advised to take this to WT:WikiProject Michael Jackson. Assume good faith and endeavour to reach WP:consensus. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:24, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thank you :) Simone Jackson (talk) 19:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

error about references
I am a new editor. I have tried to post a revision to the article Françoise de Graffigny, but I get the following message when I preview it:

Cite error: There are tagged references appear before or Reflist? – ukexpat (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't see the problem as you don't seem to be using inline citations. Suggest that you read WP:CITE and carefully examine the examples. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:24, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I have found my mistake; my apologies. The error message was misleading; it had nothing to do with the tag, but with a mistake in the tag. Thanks for the comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Panpichon (talk • contribs) 16:59, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Well done figuring it out. I have the article on my watchlist and happy to help if you need it. – ukexpat (talk) 17:03, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

GA reviewing
I hope I am asking in the right place. If not, please tell me kindly.

I am currently reviewing for GA. It was failed in September 2009 for unreliable sources. One month later, it was renominated by the same nominator as before. I did a diff check, and not much has changed since the last failure besides the addition of one reference and a bit of formatting. Does this constitute a Quick Fail?

Note: This is my first ever GA review.  Bramble  claw  x   20:46, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have answered on your talk page, but best place to ask is at WT:Good article nominations. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact I am going to copy this there right now. Jezhotwells (talk)