Wikipedia:Featured and good topic candidates/Gwen Stefani albums/archive1

Gwen Stefani albums
Note that this was a Featured Topics nomination - rst20xx (talk) 16:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

A short-but-sweet topic. It's the same format as the other discography featured topics, the Powderfinger discography and the Wilco discography. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk to me The mess I've made 18:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support meets the requirements, nice job :) -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • [ log]) 18:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support with the additional comment that you're impressively close to being able to expand to add the singles - rst20xx (talk) 21:05, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Zginder 2008-08-23T21:27Z (UTC)
 * Support Looks good. Surprised hasn't been submitted until now. Gary King ( talk ) 21:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment by nom I should add a note that Love. Angel. Music. Baby. is itself a topic but I don't know the formatting. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk to me The mess I've made 00:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's just a "WP:featured topics/love.angel.music.baby|(subtopic)" link in "super" tags, it'll get added if the topic passes. --PresN (talk) 02:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support I will always support it. No reason to oppose. Indianescence (talk) 11:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - wait, you didn't write any of these articles, did you? It clearly states above that "Nominators who are not significant contributors to the articles of the topic should consult regular editors of the articles prior to nomination." Did you make any attempt at this? rst20xx (talk) 18:05, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I came across them when having a look at the LAMB article (I like the album) and realised they met the criteria. I was a bit surprised they weren't already a featured topic so I was bold and nominated them. I've just left messages at a few of the creators of the articles; I'm a bit new to the procedure and didn't see that. My bad. Guilty as charged. -- Escape Artist Swyer Talk to me The mess I've made 20:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support - Great! ĈőмρǖтέŗĠύʎ890100 (t ↔ Ĕ ↔ ώ) Review me! 23:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support - not your babies, but it's a clear pass. --PresN (talk) 01:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. per . Cirt (talk) 16:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support/Comment. Fortunately, Stefani's discography is neat enough that all of the singles can be placed into album subtopics. However, do you think it is necessary to include singles on which Stefani is a featured artist? ("South Side" and "Let Me Blow Ya Mind") There's also lesser-known, non-album of songs in Stefani's discography (like "Almost Blue", "What's Going On" and "Tears in Heaven"), but I don't know if they're notable enough to include on this topic or not. Anyways, I'll give my support at this point. Xnux   the   Echidna  22:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Maybe in time it can be changed to "Gwen Stefani discography" and include the singles, too? Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 03:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, technically, this should be called discography already, as per the precedents set by the other similar FTs... right? rst20xx (talk) 13:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose per criterion 1d, the same criterion which should have failed the two cited examples in the nomination. Furthermore, I do not recognise the Powderfinger and Wilco discographies as FTs in any shape or form. A discography means every disc a group has issued - that means albums, EPs and singles. They're referenced in the actual discography articles, yet all but the albums are conveniently omitted from FT noms. Blatantly violating the criteria to let these topics pass is a clear attempt to bolster the amount of those featured. Rst20xx says "you're impressively close to being able to expand to add the singles" - let me remind everyone that no topic should be cherry picking articles, so if the singles are eligible, they should be added to the topic right now, and not at a later date when the singles conveniently measure up in terms of article quality. In that, I mean during the original nomination, not next week or next year. A similar statement to Rst20xx's was made in reference to the Wilco discography by PresN, who said "singles and EPs could be added to the topic, once at a sufficient quality level". This is clear cherry-picking, and supporters are even more or less admitting so in their statements. Such statements make a mockery of the entire process. If these are the sort of double standards that are prevalent, I certainly don't wish to be a part of this process. What's the point in having featured topic criteria if it's going to be ignored? LuciferMorgan (talk) 03:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that album-only topics are allowed because singles are covered within the articles about the albums, so there is not gap by omitting them. If the topic was later expanded to include EPs and singles, it would be because the topic expanded its scope beyond albums, not because it had to fix cherry-picking.  --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 06:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. By calling it "Gwen Stefani albums", it is clear that it only consists her albums and not her EPs and singles. No cherry picking in my eyes. In time the topic may well be expanded to include EPs and singles, and then its name would be changed to "discography" Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 06:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose I see that the discography page is listed as the main page; therefore, I expect to see in this nomination all articles that are listed at Gwen Stefani discography. Currently, there are some articles that are not part of this topic. As a result, some obvious gaps are created in this topic, which violates the featured topic criteria.--Crzycheetah 08:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We seem to have to go through this time and time again. This type of topic does not violate the notability criteria, and does not constitute cherry-picking, due to their being levels of notability. The albums are more notable than the singles, therefore including just the albums means that all the top-level notability articles have been included - rst20xx (talk) 16:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are no levels of notability. it's either notable or not. If you think the singles are not notable, then you should nominate them at AfD.--Crzycheetah 18:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Obviously all the articles are notable enough to be Wikipedia articles, but equally obviously the albums are more notable from the singles - rst20xx (talk) 19:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not obvious at all. How can one article be more notable? It is only obvious that all articles are equally notable.--Crzycheetah 20:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The discography has been nominated as the primary article, so therefore all the articles relating to that - namely albums, and singles - should be included. This is clear cherry-picking, irrelevant of what others say. If this is passed (which it will be, judging by the lax attitude of those who promote), it shows a clear inadequacy on the part of those who handle this process. Both opposes clearly follow the FT criteria, and cannot be ignored. LuciferMorgan (talk) 06:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A topic must be well defined, and all the articles in that definition be in the topic. The definition is albums of Gwen Stefani. This topic includes all the required articles. All music ever relished by Gwen Stefani would be a acceptable topic, but that is not what is being proposed. Zginder 2008-08-29T14:24Z (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right, "A topic must be well defined"! Here, in this nomination, the topic is not well defined at all. The name of the nomination is "Gwen Stefani albums" and the main page for the topic is "Gwen Stefani discography". This nomination clearly fails to define the topic!--Crzycheetah 20:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support Echidna already stated this, but the discography is actually complete! All the singles are covered by the albums, and as a result this topic is complete because it contains: album1(this should become as subtopic with all the songs and some of the singles) + album 2(which should also be another subtopic which would include the rest of the singles and some more non-singles songs). My only worry is the quality of the FL, since it does not list all the songs on the albums. Nergaal (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I am not 100% sure about the other two topics mentioned here, but if they do not include ALL the singles that are not within albums, then those are inclomplete; this one is not. Nergaal (talk) 20:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Nergaal. Just so you know, generally discographies do not give album track listings because it is a discography, not a songography. It lists releases. If someone wants to see tracklistings, they can easily click on the link for the release. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 20:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose — I'm torn on this one. Precedent does show that topics can be passed without singles and EPs.  However, User:Crzycheetah brings up a good point: the discography article is being used as the main article for this, which suggests that the topic should include all discs by the artists.  If the full-length albums were a field of study by themselves, wouldn't there be a "Gwen Stefani full-length albums" article to use as the main?  There are other examples of main articles being more broad than their topics, but this example seems a bit too literal.  --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 07:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The other two album topics use "discography" articles as their main articles, I don't see how this is any different from those - rst20xx (talk) 14:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the criteria the topic is chosen and defined first then the lead article is chosen. If the lead was chosen first and then the topic build up around it I would oppose, but this is not so. Zginder 2008-08-31T18:43Z (UTC)
 * Close as consensus to promote – As per consensus on WT:FT. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 03:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC)