Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Æthelred of Mercia


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 19:26, 22 March 2008.

Æthelred of Mercia
An Anglo-Saxon king; the most useful FA for comparison is probably his brother and predecessor, Wulfhere of Mercia. Æthelred and Wulfhere share a lot of historical context, so I reused quite a bit of the material written for Wulfhere. It's been rewritten, both to suit this article and to provide variety, but there's a lot of evident similarity remaining and several identical sentences which I couldn't easily rephrase. I feel this is OK but I wanted to point it out to reviewers so they can make their own judegements. The relevant material is in the first two sections, "Mercia in the seventh century" and "Ancestry and early reign". Other than that, several contemporary kings are now FA and they might be useful for context: Ine of Wessex, Cædwalla of Wessex, Aldfrith of Northumbria and Wihtred of Kent. Thanks for all comments. Mike Christie (talk) 22:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments I'll be back by later to review and support or oppose. For now... we should just note that the linkie tool checker thingie up there isn't quite right, it tries to send you to a page that doesn't exist. I think it doesn't like the Æ in Æthelred, but if you cut and paste it in, it works fine. Also returns no issues. No issues with the sources either.
 * One quibble... you use Bede Ecclesiastical History and Bede HE interchangably in the footnotes. Probably should stick with Ecclesiastical History. (footnotes 13 and 24 right now are the HE occurances I saw).
 * I'm not seeing a bibliography entry for Swanton, Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, sub anno 656, p. 29 (footnote 17)
 * Yorke, p. 107, accepts the account in the Life of St Mildburh, which makes Merewalh and Æthelred brothers, as genuine. Kirby, p. 93, expresses doubts (footnote 18). Which Yorke?
 * I'm not seeing a References entry for :Eddius Stephanus, Life of Wilfrid, 20, in Age of Bede, pp.&216–127 (footnote 19) Also I think you wanted a non-breaking space in place of that &
 * That's it. Ealdgyth | Talk 01:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the above are now fixed. Mike Christie (talk) 22:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah, my first edit back..if only for the simple fact i dont want to study. But a cursory glance over the intro--the tone is a little colloquial, and you will need some footnotes in it too. --Osbus (talk) 02:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Footnotes aren't compulsory in the lead, unless there is something controversial there; do you see anything that needs a citation? Everything there is cited in the body.  I'd be glad of any specific comments on the lead, since I'm trying to improve it, but I'm not sure what you're referring to at the moment. Mike Christie (talk) 18:30, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support lede's much improved, every concern addressed. Slight oppose Mainly due to the following concerns/quibbles/issues/pickiness: (picture me standing here with a nice dark English ale in one hand...)


 * All in all, the lede feels lacking somehow, more like a section of facts tacked together (and I know my leads are often like this) with no real compelling "hook" to make the reader keep reading.
 * I have this problem a lot; I think it's in the nature of leads. I'll have a think about ways to smarten this up a bit, but I've left this point to last and haven't come up with anything yet.  If you have any good ideas, please let me know ... Mike Christie (talk) 01:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I had a go at this; not sure whether that's enough. Let me know if it's an improvement. Mike Christie (talk) 18:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You knew I'd be long-winded. Hope this helps! I'm of course, happy to support when some of the clarifications are made, etc. Feel free to argue with me about some of the more "opinionish" of these concerns. I reserve the right to find other things too.... Ealdgyth | Talk 22:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support. Great article. Certainly meets all the criteria. Two things: be nice if the map labeled where Rochester was, and in what community in Mercia did Æthelred live? --maclean 05:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not put Rochester on that map -- it's a general map used in multiple articles and I don't think it would add a lot of value. I've created specific maps for some articles, but I'm not sure there are enough locations mentioned in the article to help.  How about if I give a specific location for Rochester when it's first mentioned?  E.g. "destroying Rochester (in northwestern Kent), the seat of the bishops of West Kent"?  For your second point, nothing is known for certain.  There are towns known to have significant royal connections, such as Derby, Tamworth, and Repton, but nothing specifically to connect them to a residence for Æthelred.  It's likely he moved around and stayed at different places, judging from what is known of other kings, but there's nothing in the secondary sources that mentions this with respect to Æthelred. Mike Christie (talk) 23:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support but some comments I think the section on Osthryth's murder should be expanded. Who might have killed her and why is covered too fleetingly. Bede says she was killed by members of her own household, so this should be mentioned, and the other potential reasons for her murder, such as the very obvious deterioration in relations between Northumbria and Mercia (including a war, or at least a battle, and support for Northumbrian political exiles, or at least an exile), should be spelled out. DrKiernan (talk) 12:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added the info about Mercian nobles killing her, cited to Bede; you're right -- that should have been in there. I can't find any secondary sources to support your (reasonable) comments about the possible causes, though; do you have something I can cite?  I looked at Kirby, Yorke and Stenton without seeing anything along those lines. Mike Christie (talk) 23:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.