Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Žirmūnai/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:41, 26 March 2007.

Žirmūnai
Article informs readers about one of Lithuanian capital Vilnius elderates (neighbourhoods). By combined effort, team of editors made this article to GA status. Later, the article undergone further improvements and now, I think, the article is ready for FA because: M.K. 10:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is well written
 * Comprehensive
 * Well referenced
 * Has illustrations


 * Oppose
 * Overwhelming ToC. Cut down third level headings
 * Fixed M.K. 09:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Images too wide. Thumb instead of setting a default pixel
 * Comment. Could you elaborate - you suggesting to remove placed pixel sizes and leave only default? M.K. 08:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed M.K. 11:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * What is an elderate should be mentioned in the lead like you've done in this nom
 * Altitude?
 * 119 metres, added


 * Lead should summarise the article
 * Are religion stats available?
 * Could not find separately for elderate. M.K. 11:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Summarise history
 * Done Novickas 14:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * closest airport, railhead?
 * Fixed M.K. 11:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Climate?
 * Comment. Climate, for instance temperature, is available for Vilnius as hole not separately to elderate. Do we still need to include whole city Vilnius climate section? M.K. 11:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Map should ideally be svg.
 * Could not find svg format. M.K. 11:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't compare crime rates to other cities. (Chicago/Toronto etc)
 * Fixed. M.K. 08:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * use &amp;ndash; for dashes
 * Use &amp;minus for negative figures.
 * Fixed, M.K. 10:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me know when done. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  17:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Object. Agree with Nichalp, and I want to further nitpick the history section. History seems incomplete/unbalanced, with two and a half centuries of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth seeimingly curiusly omitted (and the Commonwealth itself not mentioned until 20th century section...). There are quite a few references missing, including for controversial issues (pogrom), the quote from Henry Morgenthau, Sr. (not disambiguated in the article) report is rather misleading, as the report declared Polish conduct acceptable (see Controversies of the Polish-Soviet War and the report itself). Besides, I don't understand why the report is discussed, and not, for example, the battle of Wilno (1919) or the events from that time discussed at history of Vilnius. Then we have not a word about history of the region during the interwar period - did nothing notable happen there between the Polish-Soviet War and the Nazi rule? I doubt it. The history section is further confusing in its layout - describing history of several objects mixed up with the main neighbourhood (and additional sections exploding ToC as Nichalp noted). Lastly, I added a few ilinks to the lead, but the article is ilink light, with notable places and people (ex. Alexander Rimsky-Korsakov) not linked. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would place my arguments. The most of sources concerning PLC times are in Polish at best, if there could be any, and unfortunately there were no Polish editors in this article, that could be reasons for lack or this info. The same goes about interwar - there are no comprehensive Lithuanian of English sources available. Iulius 14:32, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a shame, than, that nobody asked WP:PWNB for help in perparing this article. Unfortunatly, that doesn't address my objections - the article is still incomplete. And I have to say I am suprised that no Lithuanian source would describe the history of that settlement during those periods...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps is never to late. Only three people put most of the work in, and probably were not aware of this posibility, would be great if someone could provide really relevant and encylopedic info.Iulius 16:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If I find anything to improve on this article, I will, however I again recommend asking for help at WP:PWNB. Also, User:Halibutt would be most knowledgable for this time/place (as his comment below shows); however judging from some past issues I am afraid he may be reluctant to devote his time to this issue. If you want to FA this article, you should do your best to prove otherwise.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose, at least for now. In addition to what my colleagues stated above, I managed to find a plethora of factual inaccuracies. The entire 1900 to 1960 section seems to be flawed. For instance, the article states that "During the Inter-war period, when Vilnius was under Polish control, the southern part of Žvejai became known as Pióromont", even though the name of Pióromont has been in use at least since 16th century and it did not became known as such, it simply used to be called that way even before. The traditional toponymy attributed the name to a guy named Pióro who was some chancellor to Grand Dukes some time in 15th or 16th century and owned the place. But let's move forward: "the entire Žvejai area was referred to as Rybaki (Polish for "Fishermen");" - and again, the place used to be known as Rybaki for quite some time then. I could find evidence of the name being used in late 18th century, perhaps much earlier. "Šiaurės miestelis became known as Plac Broni (Polish for the "Square of Arms");" which is also wrong since Plac Broni means Military Training Ground (literal translation does not apply in all cases); besides the place used to be a military training ground in the times of PLC as well, not to mention the tsarist times, so the name was originally descriptive (locals used to call it that way because it... was a training ground). Besides, the article suggests that the locals spoke Lithuanian and it were the Poles to rename all the places there, while this was simply untrue. On to the next phrase: "During the Polish-Soviet War in 1919, the Bolsheviks made their last stand at the Shnipishok cemetery.", which is pretty unclear. Probably it is taken from some memoirs of some Russian soldier who read the name of Śnipiszki and put it in Russian, yet the author of this article transliterated the name back to Latin alphabet (thus creating a new name) instead of mentioning the true name in the article. And so on, and so forth. I guess the best thing to do with this article is to submit it to some peer review, then list all the things that should be done, and then resubmit here.  // Halibutt 02:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The name of Pioromont has appeared not in the 16th century, but more likely is that it could have appeared somewhere in the 19th century - the sources differ.Iulius 14:32, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.