Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1987 Giro d'Italia/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Graham Colm (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2014 (diff).

1987 Giro d'Italia

 * Nominator(s): Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  20:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I've put in some considerable labor into the article to bring it from what it was. I recently got the 1988 Giro d'Italia promoted to FA status and have made the changes and additions requested to that article to this one (expanded the route and stages sections, added an aftermath section, and a little more on pre race favorites). I also did a copy edit of the race overview, which I believe got most of the prose errors out of the way. I will respond back to any comments very quickly. Thanks!

Also, I have perused the internet databases in search of information on doping controls and cases at the 1987 giro and have not found anything; so that is why there is nothing about doping in the article. I haven't found a source that claims there weren't doping cases either...

Image review Images sound. hamiltonstone (talk) 03:54, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * File:Sanremo Casino.jpg - all OK
 * File:Terminillo.JPG - all OK
 * File:Moreno Argentin.jpg - Flickr, reviewed - looks OK
 * File:San Marino 010.jpg - all OK
 * File:Robert MILLAR (cropped).jpg - all OK
 * File:Passo Pordoi 2007.jpg - all OK
 * File:1987 Stephen Roche Giro TT.jpg - Flickr, reviewed - looks OK

Comments from Ceranthor
 * Lead
 * The Giro started in San Remo, on 21 May, with a 4 km (2.5 mi) prologue - Major nitpick, I know. But you use "concluded" later in the sentence, and I feel that's more formal than "started". Can you use "commenced" or something a bit more formal than "started"?
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The second and third places were taken by British rider Robert Millar and Dutchman Erik Breukink, respectively. - Feel this could be more concise. "Second and third place were taken by ..."
 * Fixed, I believe. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Following the fifteenth leg, Roche successfully defended the overall lead from attacks from Visentini and the other general classification contenders to the event's end in Saint-Vincent - I think until would be better than to here.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Pre-race favorites
 * In addition, the El Mundo Deportivo writer believed Jean-François Bernard to be a dark-horse candidate - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think candidate is necessary after dark horse.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * This whole paragraph is choppy. Lots of subject + verb structures.
 * What exactly do you mean by this? Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 *  win a stage is repeated several times. This sounds like pure jargon. To someone like me, who has no concept of cycling, this means very little, though I'd assume in context it means being in the top three. Can you explain?
 * A stage is a part of a multi-day bike race, since you don't ride all 3000+km consecutively. So they break it up into sections that are ridden each day. This race was broken up into 22 stages. It also had one prologue, an individual time trial under 8km, which doesn't get listed as a stage, but is a day of racing itself. Some stages back then were also broken up into half stages where half the stage was raced in (stage 1a and 1b this edition). Does that help? Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Ormezzano believed that Guido Bontempi, Urs Freuler, Argentin, and Paolo Rosola had a great chance - Cluster of nouns do not match with object. This can be remedied if you insert "all" before "had a great chance".
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Mario Fossati, of La Repubblica, - No need for the commas around "of ...".
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * What is "climbing"?
 * Added mountains after it to make it clear, would mountain passes be better? Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Route and stages
 * What are "categorized climbs"?
 * Fixed, explained at the first instance. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * "along with Maggiorino Ferrero of the Federiciclo regionale" - What does this mean?
 * Fixed.


 * Carlo Champvillair, a climbing champion of Aosta Valley, believed the race route to be very well done and technical.[10]  - Last couple of words are awkward.
 * Would "... believed it to be a technical race route that was very well constructed (or made?)." be better?


 * What is a "complete" rider?
 * A rider that can time trial, climb, and can be an okay sprinter too (aka an all-rounder).

I think there's a lot of jargon here. Reads very well, but I have a decent amount of comments that can be improved upon.  ceran  thor 04:10, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the review. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  05:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll try to post more soon, as I'm busy today.
 * No worries. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  17:22, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Some replies to your responses which still need fixing, otherwise I'm satisfied:
 * The paragraph has a lot of "Jon did this ...", "He did this...", "She won this..." sentences. More complex sentence structures would help with the variety and flow of the section.
 * I think complete would be more recognizable as "well-rounded" or something like that.
 * Yes, "believed it to be a technical race route that was very well-constructed" would be an improvement, though I might come up with a better alternative in my next review.  ceran  thor 16:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Tried to fix the first one, but I definitely go the second two bullets. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  17:22, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll try to read over it tomorrow and let you know what I think.  ceran  thor 18:06, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Pre-race favorites
 * Choppiness has improved, but I will run through and copyedit just a tad bit more so I'm satisfied.
 * That's straight. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Notable Italian cyclist Francesco Moser did not participate in the race due to head trauma and bruises sustained in the weeks prior to the race.[1][2][9] - This sentence seems out of place as-is. Suggest moving it to the end of the paragraph or integrating it more seamlessly into the paragraph.
 * Moved. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Route and stages
 * Carlo Champvillair, a climbing champion of Aosta Valley, believed it to be a technical race route that was very well-constructed.[10] - a well-constructed, technical race route. Also, having read this sentence again, I cannot determine what you mean by technical. Do you mean technically-challenging?
 * Yes, fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )


 * Race overview
 * The returning winner of the Giro, Roberto Visentini, won the opening prologue - Isn't opening redundant? There isn't more than one prologue, I don't think, and prologue is by definition the beginning.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * over the time trial specialist Lech Piasecki.[7] - What is a time trial specialist? Sounds like jargon.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * around 30 km (18.6 mi) to go in the second stage, - Suggest about instead of around.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Roche successfully defended the race lead, until the stage thirteen 46 km (28.6 mi) - Think -long should be included after the distance. Not sure how to do this with the convert template.
 * I don't how how to do that either, I just put it behind the template. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * On the descent of the Pordoi Pass, van der Velde escaped - Escaped what? Not sure this is the best word choice here.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Meanwhile behind van der Velde, Visentini tried several times to attack Roche on the slopes of the Passo Fedaia; - Is "attack" cycling jargon? If not, I think another word should be substituted; it sounds violent.
 * It is cycling jargon. Should I still replace it? Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * however, Roche marked all of his moves and the two raced into the finish a part of the same group.[7][33] - What does this sentence mean?
 * So Visentini was attacking several times over the course of the stage, but every time Visentini would make an acceleration to get away from Roche and the other riders in the group, Roche would counter it (following Visentini's wheel) and preventing Visentini from establishing a gap between he and Roche. If you need me to clarify more that's cool, I'm poor at explaining. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Riders began to attack and form breakaway groups with around 30 km (18.6 mi) to go - Again, around not appropriate.
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * He attacked again over six kilometers - Where's the convert here?
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * with over 300 meters to go. - Convert?
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Gewiss-Bianchi wasn't - No contractions
 * Fixed. Disc Wheel  ( Talk  +  Tontributions )  13:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Classification leadership
 * The Cima Coppi, the race's highest point of elevation, awarded more points than the other first category climbs.[57]  - What does this sentence mean? I can't comprehend it.
 * The mountains classification awards points through climbs that the race organizers rank from 1-4, with the 1 category awarding the most and the 4th the fewest. The cima coppi is the race's highest mountain pass and it awards more points to the mountains classification (how much is uncertain cause I can't find a source saying the amount of points for the 1987 year).


 * Aftermath
 * Roche won the Tour by a margin of 40 seconds over the second place finisher and became the fifth rider to win the Giro and Tour in the same year.[59][60][61][62] - Is there a need for four citations here?
 * Removed one.


 * In September, Roche won the men's road race at the 1987 UCI Road World Championships and became the second rider to win the Triple Crown of Cycling, which consists of winning two of the Grand Tour races and the men's road race at the UCI Road World Championships in a calendar year.[32][61][63][64][65] - FIVE citations?
 * I'm very concerned about link rot lol.... I removed two.


 * References, in general
 * Most of the references are newspaper articles written in foreign languages, but perusing through them seems to indicate some reliability. Both books cited are authoritative and reliable. I cannot comment on any of the foreign language resources with certainty, not speaking fluent Italian or Spanish.
 * Yeah there are no English sources that give detailed accounts, most just list the stage winner and who is in the lead and that's it.

Once these are resolved, I think I'll be happy with this article! :)  ceran  thor 04:52, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Support - Satisfied with the prose. Since most of the references are in Italian / Spanish, I cannot definitely say they are reliable, but I think they are.  ceran  thor 14:46, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Closing note - Sadly, after six weeks there is no clear consensus to promote this article. You can renominate in fourteen days when I hope more it will attract more reviews. Graham Colm (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Graham Colm (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.