Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1997 Football League First Division play-off Final/archive2

1997 Football League First Division play-off Final

 * Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

This article is about the single most valuable association football match in the world. It's out for a second trip to FAC, first time round it gained nine supports but there were some subjective issues over understandability of some of the prose. That kind of objection seems to have levelled off lately and common sense has somewhat prevailed on a good balance between being made to explain everything and using linking to help with such matters. As always, I'm more than happy to address any constructive criticism which will improve the article The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Unreserved support Long since FA quality. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 11:47, 27 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Support I supported this at the previous nomination and it has not changed in any way, so my support still stands. Kosack (talk) 09:08, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:44, 1 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Reiterating my Support in the last FAC, though a non football person. Some quibbles that are hardly deal breakers.
 * The terms leg and aggregate are blue linked, but could you be more descriptive on first instance. eg, I found this confusing until Andy Walker made it 2–2. With the scores level at 3–3 on aggregate at full time.
 * Reworded a bit. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The lead is very stats and process heavy; can we minimise this as far as possible and give more to the flow of game itself
 * For a 1-0 game, there's not too much more ebb/flow that can go in there. If you have any specific suggestions, I'd be happy to look at them. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * firm header - firm?
 * Well yeah, like "I am firmly opposed" etc. But if it's confusing, I've removed it. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sheffield United's opposition in the semi-finals was Ipswich Town. - played against Ipswich Town in the...
 * Tweaked. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * went ahead in the 40th minute through Jan Åge - "The home side's Jan Åge scored in the"..."went ahead" is a bit jargony, and "through" could be "when Jan Åge scored"
 * Rephrased. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The image in the infobox is at a reduced size and puny.
 * The image is at the default infobox size which is preferred to forcing it any other size. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Ceoil (talk) 23:16, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What about File:The old Wembley Stadium (cropped).jpg Ceoil  (talk) 23:58, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, switched. I don't really like the colour/tone of that image but it's arguably clearer. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 00:08, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * last thing. Should the CRY V SHU Play Off Final 1997, 01:12:52 refs be combined into one; for eg we don't notarize on-line magazines into line 5, line 15, line 20. Ceoil  (talk) 00:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * This is the equivalent to page numbers in a large reference. This current format is much more useful to verify what's been written. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:43, 2 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Palace's victory marked the first time a club from London had won a play-off,[64] and they were immediately installed as favourites to be relegated the following season by bookmakers - They won but became favourites to be rellegated?
 * Yes, newly promoted teams are most often the favourites to be relegated because they are usually amongst the weakest teams in the division into which they have just been promoted. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:43, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok, but that's counter intutative and could be made clearer in the text. Ceoil  (talk) 08:14, 2 May 2021 (UTC)


 * It would be interesting to detail Fjørtoft's yellow card earning "altercation" against Tuttle
 * It mostly happens off-screen, so adding more would be conjecture. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 07:43, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * What was he send off for - altercation seems very vague am left thinking thinking anything from kicking heads to pinching bottoms...kicked the feet from under / fouled ina nother way? I'm sure the commentators were not too dainty to say. Ceoil  (talk) 08:10, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * He wasn't sent off, he got a yellow card. It happened off-screen and the match continued. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:26, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * ...pass into the box went across the faces picked up by Dyer, who under challenge from Carl Tiler went across the face of Sheffield United's goal and out for a throw-in. Can you rephrase "under challenge from" and "went across the face of" Ceoil  (talk) 08:07, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Reworded. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 19:48, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * cheers for the support and the additional comments. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 23:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
 * to note, all my points addressed. Ceoil  (talk) 09:37, 3 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Comments
 * "to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premiership" - slight sea of blue here making it look like the name of the competition was the "English Premiership". Even if that issue is resolved, the name is incorrect - although its sponsored name was the Premiership, its actual name at the time was the FA Premier League and I believe that is what should be used
 * "while clubs placed from third to sixth in the league table competed play-off semi-finals" - missing "in"
 * "The winners of the semi-finals played against each other for the final place in the Premiership" - again, wrong name
 * "finished bottom of the 1997–98 Premiership" - and again
 * "Both missed out on the two automatic places for promotion to the Premiership" - and again
 * "The second leg of the semi-final was played four days later at the Molineux Stadium" - I have never heard it called "the" Molineux
 * "The return leg took place at Portman Road in Ipswich four days later" - you didn't say when the first leg was played, so "four days later" is meaningless
 * "after being relegated from the Premiership in the 1993–94 season" - guess :-)
 * "Howard Kendall, the Sheffield United manager, was making his twelfth appearance at Wembley Stadium" - is this just counting his appearances there as a manager? I'm pretty sure he played there too......
 * The source says it was the twelfth time he'd walked out at Wembley. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * "Obviously Sheffield United are a good side, you have to be to get this close to the Premiership" - I'll let you off this one as it's a direct quote :-)
 * Hence the potential confusion in the previous edits, but hey ho. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * "Eleven minutes later, Kevin Muscat won the ball which then fell to Dyer" - comma needed after ball, I think
 * I don't think so. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * "his cross was too close to Tracey who gathered it" - comma needed after Tracey, I think
 * I don't thnk so. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * "In the 31st minute, Andy Linighan was caught in the face by Taylor" - might be worth clarifying - was he caught by his boot? His elbow?  Something else?
 * "Sheffield United kicked the second half off " => "Sheffield United kicked off the second half" would be preferable, I think
 * First para of the second half has six consecutive sentences which all start with some minor variant of "On N minutes" - any way to vary this a bit?
 * "from the right-hand side of the Sheffield penalty area which was flicked on by Gordon" - the penalty area was not flicked on
 * "claimed that his goal was "the most special goal [he] has ever scored" - if he was referring to a goal he himself scored, surely the verb was not "has"?
 * That's what I got -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:06, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * addressed other than where I've commented. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Further comments
 * Lead now says "to gain promotion from the second tier Football League First Division to the English Premier League", with the consecutive blue links making it look like its name is "English Premier League", which it isn't. Also, if there is a need to specify that the leagues are English, why put that against the second one to be mentioned rather than the first?  I would personally suggest "third and final team to gain promotion from the Football League First Division, the second tier of the English football league system, to the Premier League."
 * That's it :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:56, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I've revised that, see what you make of it. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 19:00, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Nice one, now happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:02, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Cheers Chris, by the way the Good Topic candidate is now up and running as the main article made GA tonight! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 19:06, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

since this nomination has four supports, can I nominate another please? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 09:28, 4 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi TRM, it looks to be ticking along nicely, but I would want to see a source review pass before allowing a second nomination. We would also want to see the nomination open for a decent period, to give an opportunity for all reviewers to notice and potentially comment on it. Three weeks is the rule of thumb, but there is some flexibility in this. (Eg see and .) Gog the Mild (talk) 10:10, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The source review and image review took place in the previous nomination and nothing not much has changed. Obviously there's no need to revisit that or wait for some arbitrary time period when this is now holding more support than is normally required for a promotion.  Cheers.  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 10:49, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, another source review on the additional refs passed. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:30, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Six supports and an updated source review now passed. Can you let me know, if not now, then when I can nominate another FAC?  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 06:24, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * any clues? I am somewhat on top of this.... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 17:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi TRM, this has only been open for two weeks, but with the level of support it has attracted it looks to me as if a variant of the WP:SNOWCLAUSE applies. So sure, feel free to nominate a second. Gog the Mild (talk) 08:43, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'm not suggesting it should be promoted until the arbitrary time elapses, but as I noted, I'm pretty much keeping these nominations under good control. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 08:48, 10 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Support - I had no issues with this article the first time around. Happy to give my blessing a second time. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:00, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Source review by Amakuru - Passed. Note that I performed a source review on 6 January 2021, and I passed it at that point so just reviewing the four refs that have changed since then:
 * Ref 3: Technically this doesn't appear to verify the fact - since the note is specifically about the name Premiership, the ref should use that term somewhere. Maybe add as well, for a contemporary source which explicitly uses both "Premiership" and "FA Carling Premiership" in its prose?
 * Refs 68–70: All check out. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:22, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks, I've added that suggested ref. Thanks for the re-check.  Let me know if there's anything else.  The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;) 12:28, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Passing source review - I've checked all other changes made since January, and the few new bits of prose are all verified by their sources. This one's good to go. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Support - in addition to my source review here, I'm happy to reconfirm my general support which I gave last time. Neither the changes since then, nor the objections which were raised after my !vote, fundamentally change my view that this is an excellently written and thorough summary of the topic. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:39, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 11:59, 14 May 2021 (UTC)