Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1999 Football League Second Division play-off Final/archive1

1999 Football League Second Division play-off Final

 * Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...), ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:14, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

It's hard to believe these days that the noisy neighbours in Manchester were ever forced to endure the indignity of relegation to the lower depths of English football, but only two decades ago, they were suffering just that. This article is about the play-off final which secured their return to the second tier, at the expense of the still-not-so-glamourous Gills, one of the last to be hosted at the old Wembley Stadium. It's a co-nomination with, and we'll endeavour to address each and every actionable item that's brought up as soon as practicable. Cheers in advance for your time and efforts in reviewing. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:14, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Image licensing looks good to me (t &#183; c)  buidhe  11:27, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Support by WA8MTWAYC

 * Wouldn't it be better to drop "would" in the first two sentences of "Route to the final", and e.g. simply say "English football league system, gained automatic promotion"?
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "between Manchester City goalkeeper Nicky Weaver" ==> GK is overlinked here
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "City had been relegated to the third tier" ==> relegated is overlinked
 * Technically you're absolutely right, but I think given the previous link (to the same target article) was on "promotion", this is probably just about acceptable. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "in a goalless draw" ==> link draw
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I can't find in the source that Mark Halsey represented the Lancashire County Football Association, or that the game kicked off at 3.00 p.m.
 * Added link for 3pm, fixed that Halsey was "from" Welwyn Garden City per the RS. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "The BBC characterised" ==> you could link the BBC
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * "the EFL (formerly The Football League)" ==> "the English Football League (formerly The Football League)"
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ref 27: link The Guardian
 * Done. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Overall, the article looks excellent. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 13:18, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks so much for taking a look, I've tried to address all your comments, but please don't hesitate to let us know if there's anything else we can do? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * With my comments now addressed, I support this nom. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 16:02, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Support by Lee Vilenski
I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.


 * Lede
 * The top two teams of the 1998–99 Football League Second Division season gained automatic promotion to the First Division, while the clubs placed from third to sixth in the table took part in play-off semi-finals; Manchester City ended the season in third position while Gillingham were fourth - long sentence, could be split The top two teams of the 1998–99 Football League Second Division season gained automatic promotion to the First Division, while the clubs placed from third to sixth in the table took part in a play-off competition. Manchester City ended the season in third position while Gillingham were fourth. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:50, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Preston North End and Wigan Athletic were the losing semi-finalists, being defeated by Gillingham and Manchester City respectively. - I feel like it's better to say "in the semi-finals Gillingham defeated Preston NE while..." Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:51, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Match at Wembley - Wembley stadium. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:52, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * equaliser to send the game into extra time. With no further goals being scored, the match was decided by a penalty shoot-out, which City won to gain promotion - I feel like it's worth stating it finished 2-2 and also the scores for the penalties Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:53, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Prose
 * Gillingham goalkeeper Vince Bartram dived - to avoid the links together, we could say "Vince Bartram, the Gillingham goalkeeper". Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:56, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * had played in the top-level Premier League as recently as the 1995–96 season - was it not the Premiership back then? Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:01, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's never been called the Premiership other than as part of a sponsored name, which we avoid on WP. Its official (unsponsored) name in 1999 was the FA Premier League, so I have added the initials...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Asaba was the top scorer for Gillingham with 22 goals - this is directly after a bit about the matches in the season between the two sides. Does make it read like they scored 22 goals in two games. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * In the first minute, Dickov's overhead kick struck Ashby's hand in the Gillingham penalty area but referee Halsey did not award a penalty kick - might be worth explaining why not, or at least why he may have given a penalty. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The only source I can find that mentions this simply says "City should have been awarded a penalty within the first minute when Ashby used his upper arm to knock away Dickov's overhead kick". So no real indication of why a pen wasn't given - possibly the ref didn't see it but the source doesn't say.  How would you suggest rewording the sentence based on that? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:06, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Division.[21][16 - reforder Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Done everything to here other than as noted -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:06, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll take another look through when I get time and come back to you. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:26, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

source review - pass
Will take care of this. Hog Farm Talk 20:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Sources look reliable enough for what they are citing
 * The sources you would expect for a topic like this are included, nothing stands out to me as missing
 * Mitchell et. al 2013 needs the publishing location
 * I looked in the front of my copy of the book and it says "Published by New Holland Publishers, London/Cape Town/Sydney/Auckland" - which location should I put....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * None, I guess? Weird. Hog Farm Talk 16:10, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * For the book sources, is there a reason why publishers with articles are sometimes linked (New Holland Publishers) but not others (SportsBooks Limited)?
 * No reason other than I didn't know that SportsBooks had an article..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Spot checks later. Hog Farm Talk 21:20, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Did some random spot checks, no issues with source-text integrity or copyright stuff. Hog Farm Talk 22:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Support for prose from Shooterwalker
I'll take a look at the prose for this article. Expect a review soon. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:12, 3 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * "Robert Taylor added a second five minutes later." -> we can infer this means a second goal, but since the first goal isn't explicitly a noun, this is less than clear.
 * Route to the final
 * The first sentence has a lot of subclauses/subphrases that make it difficult to read. If you can't reduce the complexity of the construction, consider rephrasing into two separate sentences.
 * "The teams finishing between third and sixth inclusive" -> "The teams ranked third through sixth"
 * The phrasing "X through Y" is not used in British English -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * "one position and two points ahead of Gillingham" -> "ahead of Gillingham by two points"
 * "With four minutes remaining, a shot by Wigan's Graeme Jones struck the crossbar but the match ended 1–0 and Manchester City progressed to the final 2–1 on aggregate" -> run-on sentence that might be better as two sentences
 * Match - Background
 * "followed by Taylor" -> add a comma before this, for readability
 * "larger crowd than attended" -> "larger attendance" (or some other simpler construction)
 * Summary
 * This is my favorite section. It does help that this is the action itself, but I think it also benefits from the use of shorter sentences with simpler constructions, rather than longer sentences with lots of commas and clauses. Excellent writing that's worth emulating in the other sections.
 * Post-Match
 * The twelve year later comment feels like it breaks the chronology, and might be better stated in the following paragraph that starts in 2017
 * "Speaking in 2018, Morrison, City's captain in 1999, contended that had his team not won the match to clinch promotion out of the Second Division the club would have been in genuine danger of going out of business within a year." -> "City's 1999 captain, Morrison, later recalled in 2018 that the club was at risk of going out of business within a year, if not for their match-winning promotion out of the Second Division."
 * Final comments from reviewer
 * The prose is generally quite good. With a few revisions the article should be of featured quality when it comes to the prose. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * - done other than where noted..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:22, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I would recommend looking for a cleaner re-phrasing than "The teams finishing between third and sixth inclusive competed in the play-offs for the third and final promotion place". But the standard for WP:FA is "engaging, professional" writing, and this is clearly met overall. I can support the prose as is. Thanks for your revisions and good job. If you find time, I have a featured article nomination that could also use another set of eyes. Shooterwalker (talk) 11:45, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Comments Support by Z1720
Non-expert prose review.


 * There's a hatnote at the top of "Route to the final" but there's also a wikilink to "1998–99 Football League season" in the first section of the section. Is the hatnote necessary?
 * " Vince Bartram, the Gillingham goalkeeper, dived full-length to keep out a strike from John Macken." I know very little about football, so I don't know what "dived full-length" means. Are you referring to diving full-length across the goal? Can this be phrased more simply?
 * The lede calls it "added time", the body calls it "stoppage time" and the image of Paul Dickov calls it "injury time". Are these all different terms for the same thing? If so, can it be standardised throughout the article to one name?
 * "past his friend and best man," -> "best man at his wedding", I thought this might be a football term before clicking on the link, and the reader should know what everything means without clicking on wikilinks.
 * Hyphens in reference ISBNs need to be standardised: either all use them or all don't.

Those are my thoughts. Please ping when the above are responded to. Z1720 (talk) 01:12, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * - thanks for your review - all done! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * My concerns have been addressed. I can support. Z1720 (talk) 13:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 12:50, 7 August 2021 (UTC)