Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:01, 18 November 2013 (UTC).

2007 Appalachian State vs. Michigan football game

 * Nominator(s):  Toa   Nidhiki05  22:01, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I think it meets the criteria needed, and it would be an excellent addition to the featured articles group. It passed GAN a couple of months ago and underwent a comprehensive peer review in July. To give an overview of the article, this was a college football game between the Michigan Wolverines (Division I-FBS) and Appalachian State Mountaineers (Division I-FCS). The game was a massive upset, with the Mountaineers winning 34-32 on a last-second blocked field goal; this result was so shocking because the Mountaineers were in the FCS, the lower of the two levels of Division I football. For an international soccer comparison, the result would be roughly equivalent to a non-league team beating a Premier League team. The win resulted in all sorts of shenanigans at the App. State campus in Boone, NC, as well as at the stadiums of Michigan's many rivals, and many analysts called it one of or even the biggest upsets in the history of college football. both teams went on to have successful seasons, and the two are scheduled to PLAY A rematch in 2014.  Toa   Nidhiki05  22:01, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

There are interesting program comparisons at ESPN.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:31, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you see the program comparisons in the "Worlds Apart ... Until Saturday" table at ESPN?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:19, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I did... Not sure where would be best to put some of that stuff, however. There isn't really a section comparing the history of the two programs, aside from noting that App. frequently plays FBS teams and Michigan had never played FCS teams.  Toa   Nidhiki05  23:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You can also link to its play-by-play tab as a subsitute for MGoBlue. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You can also substitute NCAA.org for MGoBlue. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * These two substitutions will make the references seem more impartial and add some App State sourcing.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Both of these have been changed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  18:41, 26 September 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:LEAD
 * "marking the first time a team had dropped out of the top five of the poll" s/b "marking the first time a team had dropped from the top five to out of the polls" --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Modified; I used slightly different wording.  Toa   Nidhiki05  01:37, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You should link to the 2007 team season articles in the first sentence. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:57, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Scheduling
 * Can you find links to the team season articles for LSU (2005), Auburn (1999), Kansas (2005), and NC State (2006)? If not try cfb link. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * "the friendship between Mountaineers coach Jerry Moore and Wolverines coach Lloyd Carr played a key role in completing the deal." - were they former teammates, classmates, in-laws? Please clarify this relationship. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:42, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The citation doesn't give any reason for their friendship, unfortunately.  Toa   Nidhiki05  01:37, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Pre-game
 * "lost seven starters from the previous season." I might mention the 5 that were in the 2007 NFL Draft or at least LaMarr Woodley and all his awards. --04:22, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Somewhere in here, you should mention the defensive captain Shawn Crable. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:22, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Aftermath
 * IIRC, Lloyd Carr announced that would be his last season in the weeks following that game.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:54, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure about any causality though because the announcement did not come until the 4th consecutive loss to OSU at the end of the season, according to some google results.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:04, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think there were whispers in the wind many weeks earlier though.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:06, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find anything directly linking the game to the resignation, but I added a bit about it in the aftermath section.  Toa   Nidhiki05  23:13, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * IIRC, Either after that game or after the 0-2 start whispers started. I don't know what to point you to and since his bio does not bring it up, it is probably a little to fine of a detail for me to quibble over.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Media reaction
 * I'd mention the SI cover with an external link template like this. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, done.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Rematch
 * Link Brandon. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:59, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:35, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Note that at the top, I commented with source suggestions.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:25, 24 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Support Concerns addressed quite well.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Image review - captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods; licensing is fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:42, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Comments –
 * In the first sentence, I see "regular-season" and "regular season". I personally don't think this needs the hyphen, but it should be made consistent either way.
 * En dashes were needed in numerous places in the lead, and most likely the rest of the article as well. I ran a script on the article and they should now be in there, but keep this in mind for future noms.
 * Divisions and subdivision: Remove the space before 500,000?
 * Scheduling: Non-college sports fans may not know what LSU stands for. To fix this, I suggest including the initials with the Louisiana State mention in the prior section.
 * Appalachian State: Not sure that "National Championship" should be capitalized like this.
 * "The Mountaineers' ran a no-huddle, spread option system". The apostrophe should be removed.
 * Michigan: "and the Wolverine's streak of three consecutive bowl losses." "Wolverine's" → "Wolverines'".
 * The apostrophe hadn't been included at all, but I went and fixed it. No big deal. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 16:20, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Broadcast and game notes: "The game was the first ever to be broadcast on the Big Ten Network. The Big Ten Network...". Try not to have the channel's name repeated from the end of one sentence to the start of another like this.
 * Second quarter: "Michigan was forced to a three-and-out...". "to" → "into"?
 * The fourth quarter summary says Hart's touchdown run was 55 yards, but the scoring summary says 54.
 * Aftermath: Since SoCal isn't explained as an abbreviation anywhere, it might be a good idea to include it in parentheses with the first mention of the conference here.
 * Media reaction: At the end of the section, where the possibility of other upsets like this one is discussed, I'd like to see a sentence or two on the other ranked teams that have lost to FCS teams since this game. I know that James Madison got Virginia Tech one year, and Eastern Washington beat Oregon State this year. Maybe an article on those games will talk about whether this game provided hope to teams like them, which would be a significant part of the game's legacy if commentators feel that it did.
 * Reaction in Boone and on other campuses: Another sentence-to-sentence bit of repetition with "Peacock. Peacock...".
 * No need for two Ohio State links in this section.
 * The all caps in the title of reference 1 should be taken out. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 00:50, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe I have fixed all of the issues you noted here... As to the paragraph on other upsets, I've added the two games for now. They don't appear to have pages (yet... I may solve that), so nothing to link to. I couldn't find anything linking the upsets to Appalachian State aside from the obvious.  Toa   Nidhiki05  02:34, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I came here to strike my comments and support, but noticed a couple more issues. First, there's some nasty red text where ref 16 should be. Second, there are multiple instances where subsections share the same title; I believe this leads to WP:ACCESS problems. Perhaps you could try including the team nicknames in the Pre-game subsections? That should be enough to resolve the issue.
 * Good catches, I have corrected both of them - the citation is fixed now, and the pre-game subsection titles are unique now.  Toa   Nidhiki05  16:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support – Okay, that appears to be everything. Nice job on the article. It's the best college football game article I've seen come through FAC in at least a year or two, and I think it meets the FA criteria. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 00:08, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Notes -- Although there appears consensus to promote based on the comments so far, this does need some more eyes on it to be considered a comprehensive assessment. Looks like it also needs a formal source review, for which I'll post a request at WT:FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:16, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Articles on sports are generally outside my comfort zone, and I'm poorly-equipped to tell whether the article goes on unnecessary tangents, or whether the charts are appropriate, or whether a given source is reliable, etc. (Can the article safely assume the reader will know what "converting a 3rd and one" is? I don't, but then again, the article shouldn't have to teach the rules of football.) What I can say is that prose flows well, the article seems complete, and I did not detect any problems with grammar or with bias. So I'm willing to give a support based on my limited capacity as a football-ignorant reader.
 * Comments from Quadell

Also, the "References" section seems appropriate, except for a few minor concerns. First, I'm not sure "GoASU.com" should link to Appalachian State Mountaineers. Sure, GoASU.com is their news site, but there's a difference between the Vatican and News.va. (The site redirects to appstatesports.com anyway.) The same applies to SoConSports.com linking to Southern Conference. Also, is it a violation of WP:OVERLINK to link to ESPN.com 14 times in the references (along with other multiple links)? Besides these, the references seem fine, and my few spot checks showed the statements supported without plagiarism. – Quadell (talk) 18:58, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for commenting! I've gone ahead and removed the duplicate links from the references section, as well as taken your advice on the GoASU and SoConSports links.  Toa   Nidhiki05  18:13, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Oppose on problems with prose, sourcing, plagiarism, and WP:LEAD
 * Seems redundant: "regular season college football game ... opening the regular season for both teams"
 * Fixed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "considered as" is generally incorrect. Just use "considered" or "considered to be".
 * There is no use of 'considered as' in this article.
 * "and were considered by media outlets as the preseason favorites" -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  18:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "Games between FBS and FCS teams typically result in lopsided victories for the FBS team." This sentence seems unsupported in the body. You describe the differences in scholarship distributions and provide a quote about how they are perceived, but where is a source supporting this claim? **This is supported in the third sentence of the second paragraph of the 'Divisions and subdivisions' subsection, with citation 12 as the source.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Plagiarism: "The game was expected to be such a mismatch Las Vegas sports books refused to offer a betting line." This is verbatim from the source.
 * Fixed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is still in the lead, only with "present" instead of "offer". It's still plagiarism. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  18:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Verifiability: "FBS member teams are allowed to have up to 85 scholarship players, while FCS member teams are allowed to award the equivalent of 63 full scholarships, divided among no more than 85 players." The source provided doesn't support that last phrase. **Corrected.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "Appalachian State became the first FCS team to defeat a ranked FBS team" Again, I don't see where this is stated and sourced in the body. You write about the 2 teams that have done it since, but where is your source stating that Appalachian State was the first?
 * Either of those sources say it. It's implied. I've made it explicit now.  Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The prose is too repetitive in many places, for example: "dropped out of the top 25 of the AP Poll entirely" and "dropped from the top five to out of the poll entirely" near each other.
 * It's real helpful when you say something like that and just give one example. I've fixed that. A Toa   Nidhiki05  17:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You introduced a grammatical error though; it should be "had fallen". Sarcasm aside, FAC isn't the place to exhaustively list problems. I generally include an example so you can look for others. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:09, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine, it's just I've spent a whole lot of this process copyediting - I had a pretty comprehensive PR that was mostly fixing grammar mistakes, plus a ton of these here. I'll look over and see what I can find.  Toa   Nidhiki05  18:16, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * A lot of this is from just the lead—a lot of work is probably in order, including a more thorough source audit. -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:48, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Closing comment -- I'd left this open a while to give it a chance to garner further support for promotion but as there are still issues after almost two months, I'm afraid it's time to archive the nom. I realise it's a letdown after such a long haul but pls take the opportunity to resolve things and then renominate after the regulation two-week break, per FAC instructions. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 14:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.