Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2009 World Series/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 22:42, 20 March 2011.

2009 World Series

 * Nominator(s): Staxringold talkcontribs 16:48, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

This article has been pretty thoroughly reviewed, tweaked, etc, I really do believe it's ready. FAC #1 (seems like ages ago) focused on adding the pre-series match-up info that is there now. FAC #2 (also a long time ago) just didn't draw many reviews. Also had 2 peer reviews in the past 1.5 years, with all issues resolved. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:48, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * FAC 1, FAC 2 Staxringold talkcontribs 16:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Quick comment&mdash;I noticed during a brief read-through that the article doesn't mention the Yankees' transition from the old to the new Yankee Stadium in 2009. This should be mentioned somewhere, including the fact that the Yankees won the 2009 World Series in the year the new Stadium opened, similar to how they won their first World Series, the 1923 World Series, in the first year of the original Yankee Stadium. –Grondemar 19:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:22, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I made a minor copyedit to what you added in the Aftermath section that I hope you won't mind. In general this article looks very good, but I'll wait until I have more time to fully read through before I'll support. –Grondemar 02:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Disambig/External Link check - No dabs or dead external links. Quite a few external redirects which may lead to link rot; see them with the tool in the upper right of this page. -- Pres N  01:08, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * All fixed up, I believe. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:01, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Images Other than that, everything looks fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:06, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * File:Opening_ceremony_of_game_3_of_2009_World_Series.jpg is credited on the source website as a "Courtesy Photo", which makes its provenance unclear. It's hosted on an Air Force website, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the work of an Air Force employee
 * Avoid sandwiching text between images.
 * I'll comment out that opening ceremony pic until (if) the sourcing is better cleared up. It's not super crucial or high quality to begin with. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments – As I've said before, I want to avoid getting too close to this one because of my inherent Yankee-fan bias. However, I did notice a few more things in a quick scan.
 * In the lead, I saw "as a result of the its 4–3 win in the All-Star Game."
 * Fixed, and used the AL abbreviation from earlier in the lead. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Space needed after reference 20.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Some of the references are missing access dates.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 01:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Believe I caught all of them. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:53, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments:
 * "The series was played between October 28 and November 4, 2009," Since 2009 was used in the previous sentence to confirm, I think its use is redundant here.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Championship Series (ALCS)," comma not needed
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "career saves in the World Series (Mariano Rivera with 11)," I'd move this up alongside Pettitte's record, so the career and single-series records are together. Looks better to me.
 * Done, and added the same Howard clarification to the lead that you requested below. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Yankees had Home field advantage" home can be lowercase
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "The starting pitchers Lee and CC Sabathia continued until the top of the eighth" saying 'continued to pitch' might be better, since some might ask what they're continuing to do. (obvious to me, just maybe not to others)
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * When you note the Yanks-Sox "long standing rivalry", linking to it would be beneficial.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Burnett left after seven innings, replaced by Mariano Rivera in the eighth." and was replaced by
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Should tenth be written as 10th? I think that's how it works but i could be wrong; in game two summary
 * MOSNUM says the general rule is "render numbers over nine that take two words or fewer to say as words". Also, more importantly here, it calls for consistency within an article and says explicitly that "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures." Since all other innings are spelled out, and tenth only takes one word anyways, left it in that form. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Specifically, the ball hit a camera owned by Fox and MLB" now I'm getting nitpicky, but i'm pretty sure mlb doesn't need to be linked here.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "With it Howard set a new World Series record for most strikeouts in a single series with a total of 13" i'd note that the record is for most strikeouts by a hitter, since i'm positive pitchers have topped that record of 13.
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a well-written article and was a good read; I'll be happy to support once those issues are fixed. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 04:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 17:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments
 * Is the last paragraph of the lead really notable enough info for the lead? It also means that the Yankees winning a 27th World Serise is mentioned twice in the lead.
 * Can remove if you feel it's not notable, but broken records for major statistics (home runs, strikeouts, wins, saves) seem notable to me. They drew outside notice from sources (as used in the prose), eg. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "allowing one unearned run" reader may not know what an unearned run is and the link is "earned run" so that doesn't help.
 * "helped by Johnny Damon's baserunning" how? did no one eles bother to run the bases or something?
 * Yes, they did, but Damon's baserunning in that game drew particular notice and which led to the decisive ninth inning runs. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "as Matsui tied the record for most runs batted in" this is also mention twice in the lead, remove one of them.
 * "Derek Jeter recorded his 2,722nd career hit, passing Lou Gehrig to become the Yankees' all-time leader in career hits" I assume this means hits as a Yankee but I don't think this sentence makes that very clear. It soulds like a player could have 2000 hits with another team but if he got his 2,723rd hit as Yankees he still be the Yankees leader.
 * Why does the ALCS MVP get mentioned but not the NLCS MVP?
 * "whereas other closers blew 11 saves in the 24 postseason games leading up to the World Series" I don't really understand this, who are "other closers"? and are "games leading up to the World Series" just the last game before a World Series, or games a week before a world series or something like that?
 * I think you need to mention that Philadelphia Eagles and New York Giants are NFL teams and Philadelphia Flyers and Tampa Bay Lightning are National Hockey League teams.
 * "Finally, Lee was the first pitcher ever to strike out at least ten, walk no one" why finally?
 * "This was the first of two calls by Gorman in this game which were later shown to have been wrong by video replays." What was the other? Did anything happen to Gorman as a result of getting them wrong?
 * It's the call discussed one paragraph down, where I say it's Gorman. Clarified it a bit. I am not aware of any reprecussions. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Happ escaped the fifth" why escaped?
 * "This was the 28th pinch-hit home run in World Series history." so what?
 * It's a fact about a rare event that drew outside sourcing... *shrug*. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * With 28 of them it doesn't seem very rare, or not rare enough to be notable anyway. BUC (talk) 09:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed. Staxringold talkcontribs 12:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "three-man rotation, as CC Sabathia started the game on three days rest" reader may not know the significance of a three-man rotation or three days rest.
 * "chasing Sabathia from the game" What! literally?
 * "going 4–0 with a 2.33 ERA in four career starts on short rest before this game" reader may not know what shor rest means.
 * I don't know what to do. You can only clarify things so much before the article becomes unreadable. There is no article or Baseball jargon entry on the subject to link to, or I would. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't short rest just less than four days? BUC (talk) 09:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, should I add that note? Staxringold talkcontribs 12:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good! Something expaining the three-man rotation as well. BUC (talk) 22:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Added the note on rest. Don't know how to address the rotation bit, however. The article links to starting rotation, which provides a reader some chance to read further if they so desire. Additionally it notes the rarity of the three-man rotation in the playoffs, saying it hadn't been used since the Padres back in 99. Lastly it contrasts the Yankees to the Phillies' 4 man rotation. Beyond that I'm not sure what to add. Noting the traditional regular season rotation (5 man) I feel would only confuse an outside reader into thinking the Phillies were also strange for only using 4, but that's a pretty normal thing given extra playoff rest. Again, most of this seems like ancillary information that belongs at starting rotation (which is linked) more than it does here. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * "then second-most among active players" then the second-most among active players
 * Might be worth mentioning Steinbrenner's age when he died.
 * Didn't Yankees get championship rings for their win?
 * Yes, on Opening Day the next season. Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oooh, I forgot about the Matsui bit, adding that also. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:44, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

BUC (talk) 16:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Odd that there is a picture of them visting Obama but no mention of it in the text.
 * Done/added/etc unless specifically responded to. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Yankees' victory in the ALCS earned them their 40th World Series appearance in franchise history, and their first since losing to the Florida Marlins in 2003." needs ref. BUC (talk) 11:27, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 14:44, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ref #28 mentions "FanHouse.com" but I don't see it anywhere in the article. BUC (talk) 09:55, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Support BUC (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Additional comments from User:Grondemar:


 * In the first paragraph of the lead, it mentions that the Yankees and Phillies met in the 1950 World Series, with the Yankees winning 4–0. While this is a good fact to include in the article, I don't think it belongs in the lead right there, as it isn't directly relevant to the core subject of the 2009 Series and distracts the reader.
 * "The series was played between October 28 and November 4..." I don't want to nitpick, but as currently worded someone totally unfamiliar with baseball might assume that the two teams played continuously through this time period, rather than on certain nights within the period.
 * I realize WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but that's how 2004 World Series is worded and I'm not sure how to make it clearer to cricket fans (eg) who might think that means more continuous play. Maybe the 1926 World Series lead style, "The series took place from [A] to [B]"? Staxringold talkcontribs 04:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * After further consideration I think it's fine as-is. –Grondemar 04:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * "...allowing one unearned run..." You might want to add "only" there; as currently worded it's a little vague over whether Lee allowed any earned runs.
 * Philadelphia Phillies section: "Park was originally signed as an insurance policy for the bullpen..." "Insurance policy may be too colloquial. Consider "backup option" instead.
 * New York Yankees section: "strong season" is used twice in close succession. Consider rephrasing one of them.
 * Pennant should at least be linked, as readers unfamiliar with baseball might not realize it means "championship".
 * Series preview section: in college football bowl game articles I've broken down teams in separate sections for the offense and defense, along with statistics. Would it be worthwhile to break this into individual sections analyzing the lineups, pitching staffs, bullpens, defenses, etc?
 * I don't think so. They are already effectively divided like that, further subdivision/header'ing seems unneeded. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, that's reasonable. –Grondemar 04:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. –Grondemar 04:10, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Done, but where noted. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

*Comments
 * Support&mdash;with all my above concerns addressed, I now feel confident that this article meets the FA criteria. –Grondemar 04:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't quite figure out why File:2009 World Series.svg is necessary- what does it being to the table as far as NFCC 8 is concerned? The FUR is a boilerplate, as well.
 * It serves the same purpose as every DVD cover image fairly used across Wikipedia. Or all the bowl game logos in the Bowl FAs. It is an image expressly designed to represent the World Series, precisely what it's doing in the infobox. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:44, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It would help if the FUR didn't keep referring to "the organisation" when we're talking about a sporting event... It reads like (because it is) a boilerplate that's slapped on images when no one bothers to write a distinct FUR. Courcelles 05:51, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Better? Staxringold talkcontribs 05:56, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't actually see anything citing that this was the 105th WS...
 * Reused a ref already there to make it explicit. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "93–69, .574, GA: 6" I know enough baseball to have written a few FL's on the topic... and I'm clueless as to what GA means in this context.
 * Games ahead. I'll link to the closest article we have on the subject. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "as reliever J. C. Romero was assigned a 50-game suspension after violating the Major League Baseball drug policy," The source doesn't even mention Romero.
 * Added another source. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "They became the first World Series champion to return to the World Series the following year since the 2000–01 New York Yankees." Citation?
 * Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "500th save against the Yankees cross-town rival" Should this by Yankees' ?
 * Yup. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "The Series started on October 28, 2009, which was the latest start in World Series history." First, citation. Second, why was it so late?
 * Added. And there has been a slow and steady progress towards later and later starts. 2004 started on the 24th, then the latest start also. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Feels like there's some overlinking, especially players. Rivera is linked in the game 2, game 3 and game 4 writeups, for example.

Courcelles 04:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, each player is linked the first time they appear in each section to make each game summary readable. Staxringold talkcontribs 05:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Support Courcelles 20:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Support I gave this article a peer review. Any doubts I had about the article which weren't addressed at the time or where in my mind have resolved. KnowIG (talk) 00:40, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Source review? Spotcheck for close paraphrase/plagiarism? -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  03:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Go for it (either you or someone else) though I can comfortably guarantee there's no plagiarism in what I wrote. Staxringold talkcontribs 03:37, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Must every player be linked in every game summary section? It creates quite a sea of blue, when we should be letting blue links for baseball jargon stand out. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I speak baseball, but it took me a while to figure out that the box score presented in the "Statistics" section is cumulative; how can that be clarified? I find the dashes separating the dates and times in the regular box scores to have a cluttering effect, wonder why they can't be separated by commas? Would like more review of overlinking of player names, MOSNUM, and other MOS issues (WP:PUNC). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:29, 19 March 2011 (UTC) USA Today is a newspaper and should be in italics in the citations-- I don't know why that citation template doesn't italicize it? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 22:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC) Getting close-- please do additional review to minimize unnecessary linking, check for WP:MOSNUM issues, and review WP:PUNC (see my edit summaries). Sandy Georgia (Talk) 20:01, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Put it in a clearly titled subsection. Also replaced the dashes with commas as requested. I'll go through and delink the players as that seems to be a common request. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The playing delinking and USA Today italicizing is done. Staxringold talkcontribs 23:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I gave it a strong once over. Fixed all the NBSP issues you expressed in your edit summaries, the only other quotation issue the period is correctly included, looked hard for whatever NUM issues I could find, and caught a few more delinking chances. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:55, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.