Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2022 World Snooker Championship/archive1

2022 World Snooker Championship

 * Nominator(s): User:HurricaneHiggins,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:17, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

This article is about the 2022 edition of the World Snooker Championship. Let me know your thoughts.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:17, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Comments from HAL
It's been a week after nomination, and this is still dormant, so I'll throw my hat in:
 * No complaints in lead.
 * Fergal O'Brien, Martin O'Donnell, Sunny Akani, and Andrew Higginson Maybe alphabetize
 * What's a 137 break?
 * I have linked on first usage.  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 09:05, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * MOS:NOFORCELINK: Do use a link wherever appropriate, but as far as possible do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence. The text needs to make sense to readers who cannot follow links. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean, I get that - but the idea of explaining what a break is, would be similar to explaining what a yellow card is in football, or what a cannon is in warfare. Whilst we should expect articles to explain highly jargon terms (or avoid altogether) we shouldn't be adding in explainations for the most common of terms for the subject matter.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Er, this is an encyclopedia. The reason we're here is to explain unfamiliar concepts. It's our job to explain the common terms of the subject matter! Besides which, the MoS doesn't give an exemption for common terms. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You could make that exact argument about literally any article. I don't think you could point to any FA where this isn't the case. Do you have a wording that would make sense here? If we don't have "an exemption" for common terms, then we would have to explain every single thing that isn't completely obvious in prose. That would not be improving the encyclopedia, it would make all things so much harder to read. I would oppose an FA that went out of its way to explain the minutia of every term as being not well written. To this end, I've started a topic at the MOS talk page as I've heard this argument a few times and I've never seen it applied outside of sports articles.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:17, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Could you provide a link? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Found it. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:50, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I was still composing it.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The fourth and final round of qualifying, billed as "Judgement Day", was As they are multiple rounds, i.e. plural, should it be "were"?
 * Not my FLC, but just jumping in here to note that the "fourth and final qualifying round" is one round i.e. it was both the fourth round and also the final round. So singular is correct -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:43, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 🤦‍♂️ D'oh, scratch that. ~ HAL  333  08:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

The subject isn't exactly my forte, but this article is really immaculate work. Very nice job. ~ HAL  333  01:41, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * a 17 percent increase over the previous year. Overall, the event attracted a 30 percent greater share of the BBC's viewing audience than the previous year. What's the difference?
 * This says the final session (the last few hours of the 17 days) was 17 per cent larger, whilst the event as a whole had 30 per cent higher audience (on the BBC at least).
 * Should that be "Snooker.org" rather than "snooker.org"?
 * Erm, I can't say I've seen a relevant policy on how we should format website names. I'm happy with it as lowercase.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:02, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Happy to support. ~ HAL  333  18:35, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Comments from ChrisTheDude

 * " that produced the longest frame ever played at the Crucible" - wikilink frame
 * Link it the first time it appears in the body too
 * "O'Sullivan subsequently denied...." - this is a standalone sentence and doesn't need brackets round it
 * That's all I got! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:24, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the delay (Christmas and all that). Short and sweet, all of the above covered.  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 09:57, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - apologies for apparently missing this response -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Image review - the only image I've found is a print of the official match program, which I've used before. See cuetracker.net/tournaments/world-championship/2022/4888. (link is blacklisted for citations, should be fine for showing where the image came from).  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 23:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * File:World_Snooker_Championship_2015_Logo.png: can we elaborate on the source here? Is this from an official site? The URL is not informative. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:45, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
 * - Has this been resolved? Hog Farm Talk 03:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nikki, Lee, should we be good to go here? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:30, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed this, I'm happy to remove the image if there's an issue, or I'll take a look later and see where the item might have been uploaded from.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:05, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If a source can be found that would be ideal. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * How is your search going, Lee? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:56, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So far I've removed the image. I'll see if I can find another image, but I don't want to use an image sourceless.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 23:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the nom has been open long enough, by all means pursue and double-check with Nikki if necessary afterwards. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 20:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Comments from BennyOnTheLoose

 * Snooker Scene (which reported extensively on the tournament in the June 2022 issue) seems like an omission from the sources. There probably isn't too much more to add about the background and matches, but perhaps something like Clive Everton's view on O'Sullivan's victory could be added? Or maybe there are more details from the magazine's article "O'Sullivan tops all lists" that provide further context?
 * Yeah, I no longer have the Snooker Scene for that month, I'm looking into getting a copy but since Everton left I've not been all that interested in renewing my subscription.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll add some quotes here, which you can use or not. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "Ronnie O'Sullivan's seventh world title, equalling Stephen Hendry's television era record, emphasises his standing as snooker's answer to Tiger Woods in golf or Roger Federer in tennis. He is 'the greatest' in snooker’s history just as Muhammad Ali remains 'the greatest' in boxing's 6 years after his death." (Everton, Clive, "Ronnie O'Sullivan: The Greatest", Snooker Scene, June 2020, p.29) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "Ronnie O'Sullivan is now top of all the lists that matter, underlining his status as the greatest player of all time." 39 titles, now 3 ahead of Hendry on 36; 61 ranking finals, ahead of Hendry on 57; 62 century breaks in the season, one ahead of Robertson; 1,169 career centuries, ahead of J. Higgins on 897; £822,000 prize money in the season, ahead of Robertson on £755,600 ("O'Sullivan tops all lists", Snooker Scene, June 2020, p.3) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added a piece on the first part, which is good commentary review. The second part is a bit too stats for prose imo. I'd rather that was in the snooker season article.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I ran Ohconfucius/dashes.js and incorporated the suggested changes - please revert if you disagreee.
 * No worries  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I amended the curly quote after "victories" in the Wilson quote.
 * Nice work  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * There are a couple of duplicate links (which I think you can pick up using the script - let me know if not)
 * I'll take a look now.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need both snookerscene.co.uk and Snooker Scene in the same reference.
 * I shall go through them.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * There are some references specifying "WST" or "World Snooker Tour", while others for the same site have "World Snooker"
 * Two secs, I'll make them consistent.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the title "Race to the Crucible WPBSA Snooker" just be Race to the Crucible?
 * Done  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:33, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Adding the ISSN for The Times is probably unnecessary - there's no ISSN for The Guardian specified, for example.
 * Removed  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:33, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Why no "pictured in.." for the Bond and Marteel images, which are older than the Marco Fu one?
 * Added  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs)
 * "Welsh amateur", "Veteran Welsh player" "his Welsh compatriot" - the "Welsh" seems irrelevant. ("compatriot" appears six times, four in connection with Welsh players.) I'm not sure that the "six Welsh players reached the Crucible, the most since 1990" and the previous sentence are necessary.
 * I've removed a couple of these. To be honest, I'm up in the air about this, as it could seem trivial, it was enough for the BBC to comment on, and it is a lot of Welshmen for a 32-player tournament.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Seems to be a stray "Ivan" on the "Top Ten Matches Of 2022" ref.
 * Removed  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Background
 * History of the World Snooker Championship" ref is World Snooker, not WPBSA.
 * Done  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "Organised by the World Snooker Tour, the 2022 tournament was sponsored by sports betting company Betfred," -source is from 2020 and mentions sponsorhip only "until at least 2021".
 * Added a ref that says 2022. Cazoo sponsor from 2023, so that's cool.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Qualifying
 * World Snooker Tour (2 April 2022). "Statement on Liang Wenbo". is in a different format from other WST refs.
 * I think this has been fixed  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "...no intention of playing Q School" - might be better to take this out of the quote and explain what Q School is, as it won't be obvious to all readers.
 * Added explanation  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Main stage
 * "Murphy fouling the pink ball with his finger" - but I wonder if this could be a bit more specific. Not all readers will recall what a foul in snooker means.
 * Removed it as it's not all that important. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The MacManus tweet seems redundant for "but Yan later explained that it was a joke."
 * Sure  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Class of '92 is wikilinked, but is it worth briefly explaining the term in the body text?
 * Added  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If there's no better source than a Tweet for "with Bulgarian referee Desislava Bozhilova officiating her first world semi-final", is it worth including?
 * Agreed, removed.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "Williams requiring three snookers," - "snookers" here is another term that may not be clear to readers, dont we normally explain this?
 * Removed. It's enough to say this was enough points to win the match.
 * Hi, fantastic comments as always. I've done the above.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:53, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Benny, how are things looking now? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy to support. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:26, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Source review
Before getting started, I went back to a previous source review I did of one of your snooker articles to see what sources we'd discussed, to avoid asking again about sources you've already demonstrated are reliable. A couple of sources used here were removed from the earlier FAC when I questioned them because they were easy to replace, rather than because you felt they were not reliable: Can you take a look at these and either remove them or make a case for keeping them this time? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * globalsnookercentre.co.uk
 * snookerhq.com
 * All removed as sourced elsewhere  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 12:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Footnote numbers refer to this version. Will look at reliability and links next. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You use domain names in some cases rather than website names; livesnooker.com should be Live Snooker, for example. Others are worldsnooker.com, worldsnookerdata.com sportinglife.com, snooker.org.
 * Snooker.org is the website name, as is worldsnookerdata.com. I've fixed the others  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * What's the logic behind your use of the publisher and website/work parameters for web citations? It seems you're using publisher for the World Snooker Tour and almost nothing else.  The publisher is not italicized but the website/work parameter is italicized, so it's a question of consistency in presentation.  I can see that for something like Sporting Life you might treat that as the website name, as that's what readers will recognize, whereas for WST the publisher is the recognizable name.  Is that the reasoning?  If so, FN 14 is inconsistent, and I'm not sure why you're using publisher for Snooker Scene and SBC News, but I think everything else works.
 * ah, those are print media, even if they are also online, which is why I like to use publisher. Let me know if you'd like this changed.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Any reason why you give a publisher location for FN 5, but not for any other citations?
 * Removed  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * FN 46 has the title in italics.
 * Indeed, it's because it links via cite AV media. As I understand it, it's supposed to be in italics? I'm not really an expert on this.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Links all work, though the internet archive is giving me multi-minute response times at the moment so I wasn't able to test the archive links, and the sources are all reliable, so just the points above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:20, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay. I've looked at the above. Some of this citation style stuff confuses me, so I hope I understood it  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 12:27, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Pass. Fixes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:01, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 20:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)