Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/AC/DC/archive3

AC/DC

 * Nominator(s): VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) and shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:14, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to start with the lyrics from one of their songs: "It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll!"

This article is about Australian rock band AC/DC, first widely known about their seventh studio album Back in Black (1980), an album in tribute to one of their members Bon Scott, due to him dying of alcohol poisoning in February 1980. The article was created in 2002 by an IP user (203.36.248.17), first promoted to GA in 2006 by No-Bullet, and promoted to FA in 2007 also by No-Bullet, which then sadly got demoted in 2018. Five years later, me and shaidar cuebiyar have been working hard cleaning up the article to look like what it is now, and it is currently promoted to GA since 29 December 2023. This is my very first ever FAC nomination, so I can tell that this review could get a bit hectic at times, so all feedback, constructive criticism, and suggestions are all welcome and very much appreciated. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 05:14, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Image review

 * Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
 * Done


 * Suggest adding alt text
 * Done


 * File:ACDC_In_Tacoma_2009.jpg is a pretty poor-quality shot for the lead image - is no better option available?
 * Hopefully File:AC_DC_Black_Ice_Tour_2009_Buenos_Aires_6_de_Diciembre_(4238189133).jpg will work.


 * File:"T.N.T."_song_sample.ogg uses a generic rationale - it would be helpful to be more specific about why this sample is needed and appropriate for this article. Ditto File:ACDC_"You_Shook_Me_All_Night_Long"_sample.ogg
 * The summary of the "T.N.T." sample says: "The audio sample is used for identification in the context of critical commentary of the work for which it serves as sample. It makes a significant contribution to the user's understanding of the article, which could not practically be conveyed by words alone. The audio sample is placed in a section or article where the article or topic, contains commentary on the specfic artist(s) that feature within the specific sample selected." This also applies to the second to the second song sample.
 * You could write the same about a sample of any song mentioned in the article. Why these? What specific contribution does it make to user understanding? Keep in mind that having more non-free material requires stronger justification - if we have one of these, why do we need the other? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you make a point. I've just removed the second sample per your request. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 04:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


 * File:ACDC_-_Toronto_November_7,_2008.JPG is also quite low quality. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Changed it to File:Madrid-acdc_22.JPG now, since it is higher quality than the other one.

@Nikkimaria: I think I have fixed everything including a comment on the samples. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 07:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Nick-D
AC/DC are far from being my favourite Australian band, but they've been one of the most important Australian musical acts ever, so it's good to see this article at FAC. I'd like to offer the following comments:
 * "Sydney, New South Wales, Australia" in the infobox could be simplified to just Sydney, or at most Sydney, Australia
 * Done.


 * The first para of the 'History' section feels rather abrupt. It would be good to start this with a para or so noting how the band fitted in with the Australian rock music scene at the time. The Musical style section discusses this much later in the article, but it would be good to cover some of this earlier given that the band didn't emerge from a void.
 * shaidar cuebiyar: Are you able to add said para when you have time?
 * I've made a start at such a ¶ but it may need checking and more work.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This para is difficult to follow to be frank. Nick-D (talk) 10:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Fixed. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 01:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This remains unnecessarily hard to follow. I'd suggest splitting the first sentence and deleting or paraphrasing the third sentence. Nick-D (talk) 09:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry for that. I've had another go, hopefully it reads easier now.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 18:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "Scott had worked as a chauffeur for the group in Adelaide " - I suspect that 'driver' would be more appropriate here given that the band was a minor and broke outfit at the time.
 * Done.


 * "their appearance at the 1976 Reading Festival failed to gain a positive response from the crowd" - this seems a bit evasive, and wordy as a result
 * What do you want me to copy edit to?
 * Something like "their appearance at the 1976 Reading Festival did not impress the crowd" (or fewer words to the same effect depending on what the sources say) Nick-D (talk) 04:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Done.


 * The first sentence in the 'Brian Johnson joins and rebirth (1980–1983)' section would work better as two shorter sentences.
 * Done.


 * " and was called one of the best live albums of the 1990s" - by who?
 * Done.


 * "During the tour, three fans were killed at a concert at Salt Palace in Salt Lake City on 18 January 1991: when fans rushed the stage crushing the three and injuring others" - this wording is rather clunky
 * " During the tour, three fans were killed at a concert at Salt Palace in Salt Lake City on 18 January 1991, when they were crushed and fell to the floor at the beginning of the show." – hopefully that's fine.


 * "AC/DC settled out of court with the victims' families. As a result of this incident, Salt Palace eliminated festival seating from future events." - was the band at fault here, or the venue? (or both?)
 * Both are at fault.


 * The article notes several times that 'rare' photos and recordings were included as part of major releases, which seems a bit awkward.
 * Removed the word "rare".


 * The 'Popularity confirmed (1999–2014)' section is heavy going, as it's rather repetitive and lacking in the interesting personal details about the band of the earlier sections. Splitting this into a couple of sections might help, as would removing some of the factoid-type material.
 * Fixed.


 * "In response to reports that the group may disband due to Malcolm's illness,[164] Johnson stated on 16 April 2014, that despite Malcolm's absence, "We are definitely getting together in May in Vancouver. We're going to pick up guitars, have a plonk and see if anybody has got any tunes or ideas. If anything happens we'll record it."" - this is a bit hard to follow, and the tense seems off
 * Hopefully this works: "In response to the rumours that the group may disband due to Malcolm's illness, Johnson stated on 16 April 2014 that despite Malcolm's absence, they are returning to Vancouver to record their sixteenth studio album Rock or Bust."
 * The tense is still off Nick-D (talk) 04:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hopefully that will work: "Fans were speculating that the group may disband due to Malcolm's illness, but Johnson stated in an April 2014 interview with the Daily Telegraph's Jake Wallis Simons, that despite his absence, they are returning to Vancouver to record their sixteenth studio album Rock or Bust." — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 05:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Still clunky I'm afraid. Nick-D (talk) 09:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Should be more readable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The tense remains all over the place here. Nick-D (talk) 10:18, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Another attempt at getting this right.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 18:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "AC/DC's remaining members issued a statement clarifying that the tour promoting Rock or Bust would continue, but did not indicated whether or not Rudd would participate or whether he was still a member" - the use of 'remaining' here is confusing
 * Removed the word "remaining" in that sentence.


 * "His most recent show with AC/DC was on 28 February 2016; at the Sprint Center in Kansas City." - who was the lead singer during the recent shows?
 * Removed the sentence, considering he played for the Power Trip festival more than 3 months ago.


 * The article would greatly benefit from a timeline of the various members of the band, which similar articles usually have
 * A majority of other of featured articles about groups/bands doesn't have timelines on band members since they have a separate article showing the timeline of the members that joined and left/got fired from bands.
 * Is there such an article for AC/DC? As the article has a focus on comings and goings at it looks like AC/DC is turning into one of the ever-green bands that continue indefinitely with new members, it would be helpful here. Nick-D (talk) 04:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Have you seen List of AC/DC members? There's a timeline there.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was about to say that that article has a timeline. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 05:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)


 * "The impact of Australian pub rock on AC/DC was documented on ABC-TV's Long Way to the Top (2001), episode 4: "Berserk Warriors 1973–1981" - this seems like a factoid.
 * Removed the episode part.


 * "They sold over 1.3 million CDs in the US during 2007 despite not having released a new album since 2000 at that point. Additionally, the group's commercial success continues to flourish despite their choice to refrain from selling albums in digital online formats for many years." - this is a bit hard to follow, and seems a bit dated
 * Removed second sentence since it doesn't make sense to have it there despite the first sentence is saying that they sold more than a million CDs.


 * I suspect that the 'Tours' section needs references, and should probably be titled 'international tours' or similar given it doesn't cover their early touring around Australia and the UK
 * Added refs on the tours that doesn't have an article yet.


 * It would be good to discuss the notable tribute bands listed in the see also section in the article, ideally as part of a broader discussion of amateur and professional tribute acts, of which there are many. Nick-D (talk) 23:19, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Removed section

Hey Nick-D! I think I have sorted out everything except some comments. Thank you! — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 04:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Nick-D: Does the article look good now? — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 00:40, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Nick-D: Sorry to ping you again, but what's the status of the review now? — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 08:14, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Nick-D: Again, sorry for the ping. But shaidar cuebiyar has sorted the remaining comments out to hopefully make everything readable. How does it look now? — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 08:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Nick-D: Status? — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 22:29, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Thebiguglyalien
I'll have a look at this one some time this week. Thebiguglyalien ( talk ) 07:19, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I have to oppose at this time. The article is pretty strong in terms of content, but it needs thorough copyediting. I've read the first two subsections, and there are a lot of places where fixes are needed for grammar, clarity, and flow. I'll leave the notes for those subsections as examples of what I'm seeing. WP:GOCE or WP:PR might be helpful here, but keep in mind they can both be very slow. I also strongly recommend reworking the criticism section. The article should evaluate reception to the band in its totality without compiling all of the negative things that have been said about it and featuring them separately from everything else.

Formation and name (1973–1974):
 * The entire first paragraph of this section could probably be cut down to a couple sentences. We don't need all that info about bands that aren't AC/DC. If any of them are relevant later, they can be brought up when necessary.
 * I've removed mention of other bands, here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "brothers Malcolm and Angus Young both on lead guitar formed AC/DC" – The order this is written makes it seem like they were AC/DC's lead guitarists before they formed AC/DC.
 * Fixed.


 * "not the United States group of same name" – "United States" is used as a demonym here, so it should be "American".
 * Done.


 * "although the pair left before it appeared" – I don't understand how "appeared" is being used in this context.
 * Fixed.


 * "and finally Angus joined" – The way this is written makes it feel like an afterthought.
 * Done.


 * "some form of glam or satin outfit" – Are there articles these can link to?
 * I think so. I see 1970s in fashion as a good enough link, but wanted to see if you're okay with it.


 * "while trialling few original songs" – The use of "few" here seems to emphasize that they did original songs but they did very little of that. Is that how it's intended?
 * "plus a smattering of old blues standards and tentative originals." is what the source states.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:57, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "were incompatible, consequently other members" – comma splice
 * Done.


 * "developed bitter feelings toward Evans" – This leaves me wondering why. Because he was incompatible with Loughlin?
 * I've reworded the sentences to make this clearer.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "the band's raw energy, power-driven performances of their music" – I suggest swapping this for "the band's raw energy and the power-driven performances of their music"
 * Done.


 * "A week after this session Burgess was fired" – needs a comma
 * Done.


 * "due to intoxication – he was unconscious during a performance" – A dash might not be the best transition here.
 * Done.


 * "Subsequently, Van Kriedt was removed as "[his] heart was always in jazz,"" – This is unclear. They kicked him out for liking jazz more than rock? Also, this should end in a period.
 * Yeah you make a point. Fixed.


 * "Shortly after, Browning received a call" – Shortly after what? We're on a new paragraph and it should specify where we are at this point.
 * Done.

Bon Scott joins (1974–1976):
 * "an experienced vocalist previously with" – We don't need to say he's experienced if we then list other bands he's been in.
 * Done.


 * "his former bandmate Vince Lovegrove recommended him to George. Scott had worked as a driver for the group in Adelaide" – It's unclear how this played out. Was he a driver for AC/DC and then Lovegrove recommended George his own driver?
 * Fixed.


 * "and vocals re-recorded" – and the vocals were re-recorded.
 * Done.


 * "With the replacement of Evans by Scott" – Awkward structure, it can just say with Scott's inclusion or introduction.
 * Done.


 * "[their] working-class style, boogie-rock sound and earthy humour fell into place" – Whose opinion is this? Right now Wikipedia is asserting this as a fact.
 * Done.


 * "band during its recording, however, Clack played" – This should be "but" or "though", not "however". Also, this whole sentence runs on and could be split into two or even three.
 * Done.


 * "Both Bailey and Clack were fired in January 1975" – Why? And again, this sentence tries to pack in a lot of information and would read more smoothly as two sentences.
 * We don't have a clue why they were fired in the first place. Also, fixed.


 * "and was incompatible with Scott" – Not clear what this means.
 * I've deleted the phrase and rewrote that sentence.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:53, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * This section goes on to list several more hirings and firings without explaining them.
 * They unfortunately don't give an explanation as to why they got hired then fired.


 * "they went home without performing following an altercation with the management and crew of headlining act Deep Purple" – I'm left wondering what sort of altercation.
 * added "physical" to altercation. Source describes it as a "fist fight".shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:50, 16 February 2024 (UTC)


 * "released exclusively in Australasia (Australia and New Zealand)" – If we're going to go to the trouble of saying "Australia and New Zealand" anyway, why bother with the term "Australasia"?
 * Fixed.


 * "Later that year they released..." – A lot going on in this sentence.
 * Fixed.


 * "It reached the top ten." – Top ten on what?
 * Fixed.
 * @shaidar cuebiyar: Are you able to sort the remaining ones I haven't checked off? — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 10:31, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Thebiguglyalien ( talk ) 18:42, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Coordinator comment
This has been open for over four weeks and is showing little sign of a consensus to promote forming. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next two or three days I am afraid that it is going to time out. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry about this, but unfortunately, I would like a request for this FAC to be withdrawn, since the article does have a few things to be fixed. I will probably make a GOCE request as soon as this is closed. — VAUGHAN J.  ( TALK ) 07:13, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Good call. Attempting to address significant issues solely within the FAC framework creates unnecessary pressure. It's more effective to handle them outside of the FAC venue. Once these concerns are resolved, I encourage you to resubmit the article, adhering to the standard two-week waiting period before making another nomination, of course. FrB.TG (talk) 08:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

FrB.TG (talk) 08:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)