Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/African Crake/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 20:13, 19 June 2011.

African Crake

 * Nominator(s):  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  11:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

This crake is positively extrovert compared to most of its relatives, which typically skulk in dense swamps. Having said that, as an African species, it's nothing like as well known as Water Rail, so this is relatively short. Bird project members have made suggestions and helpful additions, but, as always, any shortcomings are my own  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  11:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Sources comments:
 * Ref 19: A more precise page indication should be given - at present the range is 1–181
 * Ref 23: It may be just my failing eyes, but there seems to be a slight fault with the page range format (the dash doesn't quite fit)

The sources look scholarly and reliable, and other than the above quibbles presnt no problems, though spotchecking not done. Brianboulton (talk) 00:06, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Brian. The first ref (and some others with large ranges) has the actual page, 88, as a hidden comment. There's no provision in standard journal referencing to indicate a single page, and I'm reluctant to innovate. Good spot on ref 23, stray space now excised.  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Sasata comments
 * Hudson & Bouwman, 2006 recorded a sighting for the bird in Heuningvlei Pan in the North-West Province, South Africa, outside of where the range map currently indicates
 * Added to list of vagrancy sites with ref  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * apparently leopards can be added to the list of predators: Hill, 2001, "Leopard cub kills crake" CCA Ecological Journal 3:63
 * Added to predators with ref; it would be surprising if leopards didn't eat this tasty snack, but it's good to get it confirmed.


 * any additional useful information in the following articles?
 * Lorenzo, 2002, "The African crake on Tenerife - a new Western Palearctic bird" Birding World 15(2): 60-62
 * Avery, Brooke, Komen, (1988). "Records of the African Crake-Crex egregia in Western South Africa" Ostrich 59(1):25-29
 * Cooper (1970). "Nest of the African crake". Honeyguide 62:34
 * I have Lorenzo, but it adds nothing to the existing reference. Although that is in Spanish, it has a url and is therefore more accessible than the Birding World article. Avery adds nothing that's not already there, and although I can't access Cooper, that ref (and Avery) is used by Taylor; he's very comprehensive on nesting, and I had to trim a bit anyway  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * lead links: plumage, threat display, territory (animal)
 * Done  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * maybe it's just the way I was brought up, but I find it grating to have a sentence that starts with "this", particularly as the subject of a sentence, eg. "This is a smallish crake…" (same complaint for initial sentence of description)
 * Fixed  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I tried to find the original Peters 1854 citation on the net without success. Can you check to see if the title should instead be "Monatsberichte der Königlichen preussische Akademie des Wissenschaften zu Berlin"? Is this a journal? Should there be an article title and volume/page numbers?
 * I took the details from Taylor, just to give the original source, but it seems to be a bit problematic, so changed ref to Taylor  Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * am wondering if "some time" is meant where "sometime" was written? ("For sometime it was placed as the sole member of the genus Crecopsis …")
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * link Crex
 * Ooops, done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * who moved the species to Crex?
 * Tweaked text to make it clear that it was Bechstein <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * "The Porzana crakes are, however, the closest relatives of the Crex genus." based on what? phylogeny? morphology?
 * Both. it was "A phylogenetic analysis... based on morphological characters", tweaked text <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * "The sexes are similar" … add "in appearance"
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Sasata (talk) 17:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "This crake may roost in a depression near grass tussock, it will bathe in puddles." comma splice
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for careful review, comments and additional sources <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Support — Meets FAC criteria in my opinion. Sasata (talk) 16:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Image review - no issues noted. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for image review <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - The lead lists humans as a predator of the bird, but as far as I can tell there is no mention of this in the body of the article. There is mention that it can be lured by imitating its call, but no explicit mention that this is done for purposes of hunting. The lead really should only provide a summary of the most important information from the rest of the article, not present information not found in the rest of the article. Rusty Cashman (talk) 19:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Rusty, I normally put hunting by humans under "Status", since it can be a potential threat, and that's what I've done here to separate it from the "natural" predators. I doubt that the call is used for hunting, more likely to be dogs or nets, but I can't verify that <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  04:59, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad. I overlooked the sentence is the Status section, but I added some serial semicolons to clarify the sentence in the lead :) Rusty Cashman (talk) 19:51, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Support It is a very good article that is informative, well referenced, and very readable. Rusty Cashman (talk) 19:51, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tweaks and support, <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Support (moral or otherwise) as WP Birds member. Passes on prose and comprehensiveness grounds. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tweaks and support <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  12:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comments by mav
 * Ref and close paraphrase spot check per this version
 * Ref 1 per 'small groups of up to eight birds' statement. Checks out and not closely paraphrased.
 * Ref 10 per the 'pure white undertail' statement. This was difficult to confirm b/c a large page range was given, but it appears to check out. I could not find any close paraphrasing here.
 * Ref 15 per 'rare on Bioko Island' statement. Checks out and not closely paraphrased.
 * Given that precise measurements or numbers are mentioned, I would expect an inline cite after "...20–23 cm (7.8–9.1 in) long with a 40–42 cm (15.7–16.5 in) wingspan.", "Nearly all the South Africa population of about 8,000 birds occur in KwaZulu-Natal.." and several other places.
 * Bottom line
 * Great article, with excellent, engaging prose that may need a few more inline cites to help readers verify content. --mav (reviews needed) 00:56, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Mav, thanks for checks. My practice is to put the ref at the end of all the text to which it refers, so for the measurements bit it is all covered by the next ref to Taylor. Where there is a long stretch with a single ref, I've added a hidden comment, which you can see in edit mode, to say that it covers all the preceding text. The alternative is to repeat the same ref at the end of each sentence, which I'm very reluctant to do. Thanks for review and kind words, <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  05:52, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support. Ah. I recall doing the same thing back in the day but bowed under pressure from referencing pedants. They argued that hiding reference detail in the source text isn't as useful to readers and having references at the end of blocks of text can be easily broken by other editors who might add an independently-referenced sentence in the middle of your referenced block of text. But so long as nobody mentions a policy, guideline or FA criteria that dictates inline cites to the level I suggest, then I support. --mav (reviews needed) 16:21, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.