Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Albertus Soegijapranata/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 04:52, 27 August 2012.

Albertus Soegijapranata

 * Nominator(s): — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel its a thorough look of a fairly major Indonesian religious figure. It has gone through a GA review by Grapple X and a peer review by Mark Arsten. If passed, this will be our first FA on a National Hero of Indonesia. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Support Comments for now This is very well written. I found a few glitches that need attention, but nothing worth arguing about: Following a further two readings, I am satisfied that this contribution fulfils the FA criteria. I am impressed with quality of the prose, particularly with regards to style and flow. I found the coordinates a little strange, given this a biography and not a geography article, perhaps you could remind me why they are needed? Graham Colm (talk) 14:30, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "...quoting the Finding in the Temple to show why he should not need his parents permission." - possessive needed.
 * Done.
 * "He found himself intrigued by the Trinity, and asked several of the priests for clarification." - redundancy, how about was intrigued?
 * Done
 * "Soegija, who found himself wanting to learn more." - same here.
 * Done
 * This reads a little awkwardly, "Several other of Soegija's writings were published in St. Claverbond, Berichten uit Java." How about Several of Soegija's other writings?
 * Done.
 * Please check for WP:ENGVAR consistency, I think I saw "counseled" somewhere.
 * Done.
 * "On 30 May 1963 Soegijapranata left Indonesia for Europe to attended the election of Pope Paul VI." - I guess this is just a typo? Graham Colm (talk) 15:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Got it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:50, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Indicates the location of his grave (the functionality is built into the infobox). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:36, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. Wow; great work. TBrandley 02:20, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:28, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done
 * FN34: should use dash not hyphen
 * FN46: page formatting
 * Check for minor glitches like doubled periods
 * Check formatting of quotes within quotes in titles. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I got it all, thanks for looking. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. Was already happy with this one when I reviewed it for GA; the subsequent smoothing of minor wrinkles just seals it. GRAPPLE   X  21:14, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking another look! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comments: Supported below I peer reviewed and copy edited this a month or so ago, so I don't have too much left to add.
 * "Soegija was pressured from his Catholic classmates" Is it just me, or does this sound a bit awkward?
 * If I remember correctly, that was "under pressure" before. Changed.
 * "he required permission from his parents first; although his parents refused, Soegija was nevertheless allowed to study" I'm being a bit picky here, but there's repetition of "parents... parents" here.
 * Agree with you. Done.
 * In the first paragraph of "Path to priesthood" there's some repetition of novitiate, and some repetition of Xaverius in the third.
 * Removed one "novitiate", two "Xaverius"
 * "In a letter dated 11 August 1923 he wrote that the Javanese were so far unable to discern between Catholics and Protestants, and that the best way to convert the Javanese was by deeds, not words." Probably not an issue, but is there a relation between the two halves of the sentence? If so, you should probably tie them together more clearly.
 * Not really, no. How's this.
 * Actually, I think the earlier version worked better, sorry. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:14, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Reverted. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:56, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "After his ordination, Soegija appended the word pranata, meaning "prayer" or "hope", as a suffix to his birth name, a common practice in Javanese culture after its bearer reached an important milestone." What was the common practice? Adding "pranata" to one's name? Or adding a name in general?
 * How's this?
 * Try to double check that the refs are in ascending order, I fixed one out of order sequence.
 * You might think about adding a pronunciation of his name, it looks like quite the tongue twister. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:23, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It would have to be IPA though. I'll get on that — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:11, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Added, for what good it'll do the average reader. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In the second paragraph in the lead there are several sentences that begin "In [year] ..." Might want to try for some more variation.
 * How's this?
 * "Concerned with civilian suffering, the vicar apostolic told the Allies that they must stop the battle, the Allies could not comply as they did not know the Japanese commander." I think this is a comma splice.
 * You're right.
 * "installing Moch. Ikhsan as mayor" Presumably this isn't an error, I'm just curious what "Moch." stands for.
 * Presumably "Mochtar", but a ref would have to wait
 * "In 1953 the Ministry for Religion decreed that no foreign missionaries would be allowed into the country, and a subsequent law prohibited those already in the country from teaching." Some repetition of "country" here.
 * Done.
 * I made several copyedits, hopefully nothing offensive.
 * The only big issue I have is the removal of "by" from "by then under Dutch control". The Proclamation was made in Jakarta, so just "then" could be misread as implying that the Indonesian government had never had power over Jakarta. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:02, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Soegijapranata promoted the state philosophy of Pancasila – literally the five tenets – through the organisation." I feel like this is a bit of a garden path. I'd suggest starting with "through the organisation".
 * Okay.
 * "asked the vicar to join the National Council, a request that Soegijapranata refused; the vicar did," Some repetition of "the vicar" here.
 * Vicar --> he
 * Also, you have a couple semi-colons pretty close to each other in the paragraph I took the above sentence from.
 * Trimmed.
 * "The film ... sold over 100,000 tickets on its first day." Is that a lot for an Indonesian film?
 * In a word, yes. More lengthily: Surat Kecil Untuk Tuhan was the most viewed film of 2011 and was seen by only 700k people total. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Several non-fiction biographies of Soegija, by both Catholic and non-Catholic writers, were released during this time." When is "this time"? Mark Arsten (talk) 15:14, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed to "concurrently" — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Alright, I'm confident that this meets the FA criteria at this point. Seems well written and comprehensive, also very interesting and engaging. I did a quick search for sources during the PR and this seems to cover the available English reliable sources I turned up. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:12, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Delegate notes
 * Still places the prose could be improved, mostly owing to repetition -- these examples from the lead:
 * Soegija was born in Surakarta, Dutch East Indies, to a courtier and his wife. The Muslim family... -- If we're going to emphasise that he was born to a Muslim family, it might flow better to say "to a Muslim courtier and his wife. The family..."
 * Agree, done.
 * He began his two-year novitiate with the Society of Jesus in September 1920 in Grave, later finishing his juniorate there in 1923. -- 1923 is obviously after 1920, so do we need "later"?
 * Graham got that.
 * ...called for the central government to send someone to deal with the unrest in the city. However, unrest and food shortages continued... -- Not essential, but be nice to come up with an alternate word to the second "unrest".
 * Done.
 * He was elevated to archbishop on 3 January 1961, when Semarang was elevated to an ecclesiastical province. -- Could he be "promoted" or "raised" to archbishop, so we don't repeat "elevated"?
 * Done.
 * Bit of a howler here: ''Several biographies of him have been written about him"
 * Looks like Graham got that.
 * Scanning towards the end I noticed Soegijapranata then went for treatment at Canisius Hospital in Nijmegen, where he underwent treatment from 29 June until 6 July; this treatment was unsuccessful. -- All those treatments and still unsuccessful? I'm sure we could easily reduce to two treatments, one if we're imaginative...
 * This was actioned. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd review and copyedit the whole article myself except that, with Graham reviewing, we might have trouble closing the FAC -- but I think it needs another pair of eyes to check prose throughout.
 * Well...


 * Lastly, we'll need an image check at some stage. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I was considering posting at WT:FAC but wasn't sure if non-delegates are allowed to request an image review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:17, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but it's fine for non-delegates to post requests there (as you've found by being bold)... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Image check -- Got on to this myself and am satisfied with licensing. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the look!


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.