Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Albona-class minelayer/archive1

Albona-class minelayer

 * Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:36, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

This article is about a class of Italian and Yugoslav mine warfare vessels of WWII that, like many Yugoslav ships, served under additional flags. In this case, the Italian Social Republic and Nazi Germany. Originally laid down for the Austro-Hungarian Navy, they were incomplete in November 1918, and Italy had three completed in 1920. Yugoslavia had another five completed in 1931, and all eight saw service in WWII. The Yugoslav ships were captured first by the Italians, then by the Germans, who both used them on operations against the Yugoslav Partisans. The original three Italian ships did not survive the war, but three of the Yugoslav ones did, and two of them were involved in the 1946 Corfu Channel incident in which two British destroyers were seriously damaged by mines the Yugoslav Navy had laid on Albania's behalf, killing 44 British sailors and injuring another 42. This article passed Milhist ACR back in 2019, but has recently been expanded considerably with new books. Have at it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:36, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Support from Harrias

 * Not keen on the quick repetition of "some" – could one be replaced by "several" or similar?
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Should "Jadranska Brodogradilišta" have a lang template?
 * Yes, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Why are the first three in italics and not the last two?
 * Lack of attention to detail. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The Malinska class section starts "The Malinska class ships had a relatively quiet career until 1941..", but there is no such caveat for the earlier Albona Albona class section, which makes it odd that it starts in 1941, after we've seen in the table above that they were completed in 1920.
 * Good point. I had neglected to check this, and have added a bit. Hopefully I've addressed this now? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This doesn't read quite right, and I think needs another comma after "(NDH)".
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 20:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Despite not being too long, this sentence does a lot, and I think would be better split up.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not keen on the repetition of "she was" here. Maybe replace the second, "and she was" with "and was later".
 * cut second "she". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Missing a space.
 * Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Too many spaces!
 * Doh! Deleted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I know the sentence goes on to give designations, but this is ambiguous at the point you read it. Which three? Recommend rephrasing.
 * Yep, it gets confusing. See if this is better. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Missing a word, "up", I assume.
 * Yep, added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Overall a nice article, although I did lose track a little bit of which ship was which, they were re-designated so often! Harrias (he/him) • talk 14:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look, ! See what you think of my changes in response? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good changes, and great work overall, happy to support. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 20:49, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Image review

 * Don't use fixed px size
 * is 1.3 ok? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's fine on the lead image, but the other image is px as well. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Suggest adding alt text
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I suggest removing the "black and white" part. Alt texts should only describe the essential info of a photo, and the color here isn't so important.  Gerald WL  08:00, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * File:Malinska.jpg: as the Crown Copyright expiration is worldwide, suggest just using that. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * All done, thanks . Just check I've got the sizing right. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, let’s try that again. Thanks again, . Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks good, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:11, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

If I may cut in: The infobox image caption says the depicted ship is Marjan, but there's large "MN" visible on its hull. Accordding to the table in the article, "MN" was Malinska - or is that only a coincidence? If the two are switched, I'm not sure is the caption correct or the table - both MA and MN could stand for Marjan and Malinska. --Tomobe03 (talk) 21:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well picked up. It is Malinska. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:57, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

GWL
I never touched any milhist FACs and failed by military history exams back when I was in the institution, so correct me if I misinterpret anything.  Gerald WL  08:59, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much for taking a look at a Milhist ACR,. Your fresh eyes are appreciated. Let me know what you think of my responses and edits? Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem Peacemaker, and apart from the comments this is a wonderful read, especially since I have not read a milhist article in full for a long time (except for some of the short ones). I'll support this nom after the fn is added.  Gerald WL  08:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added what Freivogel says about him and his motives in-text. . Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That looks better now. Supporting this article as promised! Keep up the good work around here.  Gerald WL  09:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Source review - pass
Spot-checks not done.
 * Ensure uniformity in the placement of dashes within ISBNs. For example, in "978-1-4738-2756-1" and "978-1-59114-544-8," the position of the dashes is inconsistent.
 * The thirteen-digit number is divided into four parts of variable length, each part separated by a hyphen. they are not supposed to have the same number between each hyphen. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Source 37 - is it necessary to have p.224 mentioned twice? It can be seen both in footnotes and references.
 * Sure, removed from the long citation. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:26, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources are all reliable. FrB.TG (talk) 10:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * G’day . All done, thanks. ISBNs aren’t supposed to have the same number of numerals in the respective part. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:26, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Support from Tomobe03

 * Freivogel source title seems odd, specifically "Freivogel, Zvonimir (2021). Warships of the Royal Yugoslav Navy 1945–1991. Zagreb, Croatia: Despot Infinitus. ISBN 978-953-366-006-6." - makes no sense as there was no Royal Yugoslav Navy in the period indicated. Croatian title here would translate as Warships of the Yugoslav Navy 1945–1991. I have not located English version yet though. Could you please check if that's a copy-waste from the first volume (1918-1945)? --Tomobe03 (talk) 22:23, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, sloppy copy and paste. Fixed, and thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This is just to note that the above comment regarding the infobox image caption is satisfactorily resolved.


 * It is noted that the Arbe class vessels were renamed after islands of Rab, Ugljan, Šolta, Mljet and Pašman (in Italian). The article would probably benefit from a note that the Albona class ships were named after Istrian towns (in Italian of course), the lead ship (and class) after Labin, and the remaining two vessels after Lovran and Rovinj.--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course you are right, but I’d have to rely on WP:BLUE for that, as Freivogel doesn’t explicitly say it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with WP:BLUE (if consenus is there and rules permit) or omitting this if no reference is available. Could not locate one either.--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Found a table in the back of Freivogel that provides all the translated place names. Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Supporting per above.--Tomobe03 (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Preliminary comments

 * Fix the entries for Conways. It's an anthology with chapters by different authors
 * Don't forget these--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:57, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, Thanks ! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Incomplete title for Friedman
 * Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Spell out the Serbo-Croatian name for the navy in the lede. Similarly spell out the abbreviation for the postwar Yugoslav Navy in that section.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * link bridge wings
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


 * "The wreck of Pasman remained on Ist, was stricken on 13 January,[12] and was only scrapped in situ in 1954." This reads oddly as I'd assume that the wreck would remain in place absent any salvage effort.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to assume knowledge. Can you suggest an alternative way of explaining its fate?Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The key point for me is that the Germans planned to rescue the crew, nothing about salvaging the ship. I'd just say that the Germans struck the ship in January and that the wreck was later scrapped. It's important to make the distinction between the ship and the wreck as you can't strike a wreck from the navy list.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * G'day, ready for any more comments if you have time. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 16:19, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sturm ? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:22, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay.
 * All this is excessive detail and reword the remainder appropriately : "Aft of the gun on the rear section of the forecastle were arranged the captain's cabin on the starboard side and the pantry on the port side. Between the two was the galley, directly below the enclosed steering bridge, which was topped with an open navigation bridge on which a searchlight was mounted. The foremast with a crow's nest was attached to the forward edge of the navigation bridge."

and: "Below deck, the bow contained the drinking water tanks, aft of which were cabins for the petty officers on either side of the anchor chain locker. Immediately aft of the petty officer's cabins were the sailor's bunks, underneath of which the boiler water and fuel tanks were located. A transverse bulkhead between the sailor's accommodation spaces provided support for the gun. The engine room containing the boiler and engines was located under the galley and was covered by a low superstructure with ventilation cowls. The engine room was separated from the hold by a bulkhead that supported the deckhouse on the KM ships. A workshop was located in the stern."
 * Not sure I agree, to me the internal layout of the ship seems germane and of interest to the general reader. Happy to go with the consensus from the other reviewers: . Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:07, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see Sturm's point, but I'm pretty ambivalent either way. In a relatively short article, I'm comfortable with the detail being provided. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 09:53, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * How many other ship articles discuss the internal layout? Few to none, AFAIK. And most authors don't cover the internal layout like you've done, generally contenting themselves with a cutaway diagram or deckplan. Freivogel certainly didn't in his book on A-H torpedo boats which covers ships roughly this size.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:29, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks . Well, surely that is a matter of choice for those who write the articles, and perhaps as result of the lack of information about the internal layout in the sources consulted? Freivogel may not have provided this level of detail in his book about A-H TBs, but he does provide this level of detail on these ships (and others, for that matter) in his book on the ships of the KM, which is of course where I got it. I don't have a cutaway diagram or deckplan (and Freivogel doesn't provide one), so a description is what I've added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:33, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

We'll have to agree to disagree. But I don't think that this is encyclopedic and won't be supporting or opposing.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:49, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * OK. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:45, 6 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Add a link for funnel and rework that bit into the general description or the engine section
 * I disagree. The way the section is organised is the external appearance then the internal layout, dimensions and power, armament then completion info. While the funnel is obviously tied to the power, the funnel location is part of the external appearance, which contrasts between the Italian and Yugoslav ships not only in terms of the height of the funnel, but also the deckhouse and mainmast. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:07, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The comment was predicated on deleting all the excessive detail listed above.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:29, 4 November 2023 (UTC)


 * "naval training" Naval seems rather redundant--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:51, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair call. Trimmed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:07, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Support Comments from JennyOz
Hi PM, a few nonmilhist comments...

Description and construction
 * aft of the petty officer's cabins were - these (this and next two) are all plurals so move apostrophes ie officers'?
 * the sailor's bunks, - ditto
 * sailor's accommodation spaces - ditto
 * were the sailor's bunks, underneath of which the boiler water and fuel tanks were located. - "underneath of which"? maybe just me but that sounds strange. Maybe '... were the sailor's bunks, and underneath these the boiler water and fuel tanks were located.'
 * These are done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The crew consisted of 29 officers and enlisted men. - move this to end of para ie after all the tech stuff (or is that the normal order?) Also just checking, crew number was same for layers and sweepers?
 * Yes, moved. Yes, no mention if different crew numbers except for Pasman in Germans hands, where there were 30. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The hulls of MT.138–MT-143 were - should that be a dot before 143?
 * yes, whoops. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * complete by October 1918 but were never completed - any other word to avoid 2x complete?
 * Good point, varied with "finished". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Service history Albona class
 * Between 6 June 10 July 1940, - insert 'and'
 * Yes, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * While British and Greek submarines operated in the Adriatic during this period of the war, they laid few mines there - clarify who is "they", the Brits and Greeks or RM
 * Good point. Clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * smoke apparatus - link Smoke screen?
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Malinska class
 * The Malinska class ships had a relatively - add hyphen
 * Of course. Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * suffered from boiler failure - is "from" needed?
 * No, deleted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Financial Guard - is Guardia di Finanza?
 * No, the Yugoslav version, which doesn't have an article. I'll have to look to see if there is enough in sources to create one. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * 1943, was not commissioned by them - needs 'but' or 'and' before "was not"?
 * added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * By 8 November she was almost ready for service as part of the 11th Security Flotilla.[33] On 20 December 1943 she - move 1943 back to 8 November
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * had a crew of 26 German and four Croatian sailors - both numerals or both words per MOS
 * Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * as hostages.[34]Pasman - insert space after ref
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

That's all I could find to question, regards, JennyOz (talk) 11:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As always, thanks so much for your review, ! All done I think. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks PM, all looks fine to me (I only know two words, might as well use them: vrlo dobro!). One tiny question below which doesn't affect, so am happy to s'port. Have a good weekend. JennyOz (talk) 10:10, 10 November 2023 (UTC)


 * In the bottom Yugoslav Ships template, "Malinska-class mining tender" should now be "Albona-class minelayer"? JennyOz (talk) 10:10, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I'd rather keep the template with the Yugo class names in the Yugo ships template. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:18, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:38, 11 November 2023 (UTC)