Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Alexandre Banza


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 00:03, 20 August 2008.

Alexandre Banza

 * Nominator(s): Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama)

This is an article about a Central African military officer and politician who participated in the Saint-Sylvestre coup (now FA). Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support yet another great article by Nishkid. I couldn't find any outstanding issues. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 21:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment This support posted three minutes after the article was posted makes no sense. How can you review an entire FAC and type your statement of support within three minutes?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I told EoTW I was going straight to FAC with this article. I was helping him with 1964 Gabon coup d'état, while he took a look at Banza. See his contribs to the article and the correspondences on user talk pages. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment what is going on with the multiple one-line paragraphs? The first one looks especially odd.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Multiple? I only see one. The last para of "Background" appears as two lines for me. With regards to the first one, I always start a new paragraph after the introductory sentence(s). That's just a stylistic choice. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 03:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment: The article is overall well-written. But is it possible to include an image of the person?  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC) Comment: The writing needs polishing before it can be considered of FA standard. In the lead alone I found:
 * Support. I have searched google and there is no image available. Except this one drawback, the article is well-written.   Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 13:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "In April 1968 Bokassa removed Banza from minister of finance position"
 * "Recognising the Bokassa's attempt...."
 * "To execute a coup d'etat..." is a rather clumsy phrase, which occurs twice in the lead. After the second time, the words "to topple the regime" are redundant - the purpose of a coup is implicit in the word.

For the sake of NPOV, words like "megalomania" should not be used in the general narrative, unless you are specifically reporting the use of this term. In the same way, "Bokassa found the courage..." should be: "Reportedly, Bokassa found the courage...", with the appropriate citation. Also, I don't think "Plotting a coup of his own" is a suitably encyclopedic section heading.

I have carried out one or two prose fixes in the text, but it really needs going over carefully. Brianboulton (talk) 14:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you on most of them, but why is "Plotting a coup of his own" not a suitably encyclopedic section heading? --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 14:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It sounds more journalistic than encyclopedic to me. In my view, something very terse and neutral, such as "Coup plot", would be preferable. Brianboulton (talk) 18:48, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I will re-copyedit (and ask someone else to check it out) the article. With regards to "megalomania", it's accepted everywhere that Bokassa, like Idi Amin, suffered from paranoia and had delusions of grandeur. Do you think I should attribute this term to Titley? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 16:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not objecting to the use of "megalomania" to describe Bokassa, I'm saying that it must be a reported term. so yes, I think it should be specifically cited. Brianboulton (talk) 18:48, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

This was quite a good read and well-written article. However, there were some issues that stood out to me that I felt should be addressed. I'm no biography expert, so I don't think they warrant opposition, but I don't feel comfortable supporting while they are present. That's all. Like I said, this is well written, looks to be well sourced, and is close to FA quality. I'll check back in later. Keep up the good work. (Guyinblack25 talk 23:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC))
 * Comments
 * Prose
 * I spotted some peacock words here and there: despite, nevertheless, and finally.
 * I don't think these are peacock words. None of these words are listed in WP:PEACOCK either. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, removed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The lead
 * A single sentence is not a paragraph. The first sentence should either be expanded or added to the second paragraph.
 * Merged with the second paragraph. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A very minor issue: The last sentence in the lead mentions Brian Titley and the book he wrote. When I read it, it stood out to me as unnecessary information especially since it is covered in the references. The information most important is Bokassa's actions and it kind of broke the flow.
 * Removed from the lede, added to last paragraph of article. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Early life and military career
 * This section mentions very little information of his early life. No mention of his parents, siblings, or family lifestyle/status prior to serving in the military. To me this makes the article feel unbalanced. I understand information is probably scarce, but I'd like to see a bit more. I saw that some of this is mentioned in the "Aftermath" section, but I think it should be introduced here first.
 * Information is not scarce, it's non-existent. I'll move some of the family information from "Aftermath" into this section, though. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added some family information to the Early life and military career section. It seems a bit oddly placed, though. Thoughts? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Role in Saint-Sylvestre coup d'état
 * Another very minor issue: This section seems a bit long considering how it focuses more on Bokassa. I think a little trimming here and there would help make the prose more concise and stronger.
 * I noticed a CAR in the "Execution of the coup" section. I assume this means Central African Republic. Initials are fine so long as they are introduced prior to being used. Like "Born in Carnot, Central African Republic (CAR)" in the lead.
 * Removed initials. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Images
 * Though the images all appear to be free, I'm not sure they are all entirely appropriate
 * Flag of the Central African Republic: Manual of Style (flags) states flags should not be for decoration and are not a substitute for pictures of the subject. I feel that the flag doesn't really add much to my understanding of Banza's role in the Saint-Sylvestre coup d'état.
 * Removed. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Map of the Central African Republic: While it does show where the capital mentioned in the section is, the caption doesn't really offer much information to the picture's importance.
 * Reworded. Better? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Aftermath
 * This section seems inappropriately named. "Aftermath" would sound more appropriate if the article was solely about Banza's coup. Maybe change to "Aftermath of coup".
 * Changed to "Aftermath of coup". Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The words may not be on the list of peacock word examples, but I felt they portrayed the content in a pro-Banza light. Not that this isn't a tragic story, but it felt like it embellished things a bit. The other reason I consider them peacock words is because you could remove the words/reword the phrase and the sentence would not lose any meaning. (Guyinblack25 talk 04:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC))
 * Looks good. The only thing left that I noticed was the family members not mentioned in the early life section. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:51, 13 August 2008 (UTC))
 * Hmmm... Yeah, you're right. It does seem out of place. Unless a date of marriage is available, which I doubt. I guess leave the wife and kids where they were. The number of brothers is good though. This may be a stupid question, but are his parent's names known? (Guyinblack25 talk 20:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC))
 * Okay, removed. I could not find any source mentioning his parents' names. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:05, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Support: My issues have been resolved and I believe the article meets the criteria. Good job Nish. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC))

Comments
 * The links for for the JSTOR articles needs to note that an JSTOR sub is required.
 * Otherwise sources look okay, links checked with the link checker tool. Note I'm on the road the rest of this week, so replies may be delayed somewhat. I also was unable to check the non-English sources. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Added note regarding subscriptions. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 19:36, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * This subject absolutely deserves a FA. Well organized and well referenced.
 * I wish there were better pictures. Is there anything you can do in this regard?
 * Unfortunately, there are no pictures of Alexandre Banza available on the Internet. I would add other images, but I think they would appear decorative, instead of encyclopedic. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "...surrounded himself with sycophants who fueled his megalomania" is not encyclopedic tone, regardless of whether it's true. "locked up" and "nowhere to be found" in the "Execution of the coup" section are too idiomatic.
 * I'll fix this up ASAP. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Reworded in the lead, added full quote in the last paragraph. Replaced "locked up" with "thrown in jail" and "nowhere to be found" to "who was not there". Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 00:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing about international reactions to Banza's death. There must have been some reaction. – Quadell (talk) 20:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I never found any international reactions in my comprehensive search through news archives. France might have said something about Banza's death, but I doubt records of such are available on the Internet. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 20:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.