Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Almost There (album)/archive2

Almost There (album)

 * Nominator(s): Toa Nidhiki05 13:11, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

I’m nominating this article because I feel it meets the FAC criteria and was quite close, in my opinion, to passing the last nomination, which stalled due to lack of discussion. This has waited the customary two weeks and I’m excited to finish the job hopefully!

This is the first studio album from MercyMe, a Christian rock band, and was released back in 2001. It got highly positive reviews from critics, mainly praising the lyrical content of the album. Although the first single flopped and initial sales were poor, its second single, "I Can Only Imagine" became a number-one hit on Christian radio in 2002 and then inexplicably crossed over to adult contemporary, top 40, adult top 40, and country radio in 2003 and 2004. The album was a mainstay on the Christian charts for years and peaked at number one in September 2003 - two years after its release. It has now been certified triple platinum, making it one of the best-selling Christian albums ever, and the single is also triple platinum, the best-selling Christian song ever. Toa Nidhiki05 13:11, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

File review
Not many comments here, eh? Anyhow, to get the ball rolling: ALT text is only so-so; normally we want the ALT text to fill in for the image and not to describe it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * File:Mercyme almostthere.jpg: License, rationale and use seem fine for me.
 * File:I Can Only Imagine 2001.ogg: A bit concerned about WP:NFCC here; it's not clear why the article would suffer from its absence. Plus, the song has a dedicated article so I wonder if this use is disallowed by WP:NFC §2.
 * File:MercyMe House of God.ogg: Same problem re: NFCC#8 as above.
 * File:Bart Millard and Robin Shaffer in concert.JPG: License and use seem fine for me.
 * Thank you so much for commenting! Was starting to worry this might get archived with nothing at all said. I’ve modified both alt-text (the one of the concert) to be more clear as to what it is. The alt text for the album art is pretty standard AFAIK (since album art is generally decorative), but I’m not an expert by any means on alt text so any advice there is welcome.
 * For the samples, most album articles (including good and featured articles, like the recently promoted All Money Is Legal) have at least one or two audio samples and I think there is a very solid case for having at least one audio sample; I typically include at least two audio samples to provide a decent sample of the album’s overall sound. I am definitely open to strengthening the case for audio samples here or for including a different audio sample - “House of God” might be a bad sample to use since it received relatively little coverage, so perhaps something like “Bless Me Indeed”, “I Worship You”, or “How Great Is Your Love”, which have more fleshed-out coverage of lyrics and music. The point of a sample should be to explain something the reader can’t get by just reading, but I do think there should be at least one audio sample for the benefit of the reader. Toa Nidhiki05 14:04, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, you'll need to explain why a song sample improves the article quality. Is it somehow representative for the album and are there sources discussing this? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 17:47, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, although the current wording might need to change. “I Can Only Imagine” and “House of God” are the two extremes of the album - one being a ballad, the other being a hard rock song. There used to be a third one that represented what the album usually sounds like, but it was removed during GAN iirc. “House of God” specifically is mentioned multiple times by sources, with the following sentences in the body:

"'House of God' was noted as being one of the album's more rock–oriented songs.[13][14][16] The song utilizes 'driving' guitars[20] and a 'nasty' guitar riff,[16] and invites the listener to enter the house of god."
 * Specifically, the song received note for being among the album’s most rock-oriented tracks, and its guitar work was specifically mentioned in two different reviews. An earlier source in the article notes the band fought their record to include it on the album as a counterbalance to the more adult contemporary-leaning tracks on the album.
 * As for Imagine, there is more content on the song article itself. I’m actually leaning you way on removing it since the information doesn’t tie into the album much at all, but I think replacing it with another song is a good idea - having “House of God” as the only sample doesn’t represent the album. The one that leaps out to me after checking the sources is “How Great Is Your Love”, which has an arrangement sources specifically comment on - the use of string instruments and electronic ones, vocal harmonies and vocal delays, and drum rhythms. This seems like sufficient coverage for a sample IMO, and I think I can gather all of that in the chorus and the bridge.
 * So the long and short of it: I think the Imagine sample can be nixed, and then I can update the “House of God” rationale to be sufficient and also develop one for “How Great Is Your Love”. I can go ahead and write out an example for both if you’d like. Toa Nidhiki05 18:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I have gone ahead and done this, . I've added stronger justification for "House of God" (tying it to the band's desire to include a rock song), removed the "I Can Only Imagine" sample, and added a sample of "How Great is Your Love" with justification. Give it a look when you can <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 15:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Honestly, given how little discussion there is on "I Can Only Imagine", I'd say that one does not meet WP:NFCC. Regarding the other, I'll need a second opinion; ? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 17:56, 20 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above suggests there may be more to say about "House of God", but I don't think there's sufficient justification to include the sample presently. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "I Can Only Imagine" had already removed, not sure what you mean. I've modified the reasoning for "House of God" to note specifically the song's guitars. The sample features the "nasty" guitar riff at the end of the simple and the driving guitars in the chorus. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 18:24, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Pinging and  in case you haven't seen it. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 00:40, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Upon thinking, I don't think any of the samples should be on this article as they don't add enough to a general album article. On the articles for the songs themselves they might be fine. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Is this just an opposition to samples on this article, or opposition to album samples in general? I’ve examined around half of the FA album articles and only a handful lack audio samples (and one of them was a movie soundtrack). The concept of samples isn’t generally seen as problematic for album articles. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 21:41, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Coordinator comment - This has been open for a solid month without any declaration of support for promotion, and doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction at present. Therefore, I will be archiving it shortly and it may be re-nominated after the customary two-week waiting period. In the mean time, please action feedback as appropriate. -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC) -- Laser brain  (talk)  16:49, 23 July 2019 (UTC)