Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Amador Valley High School/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 18:00, 24 November 2009.

Amador Valley High School

 * Nominator(s): Deltawk (talk) 01:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I would like to thank the users that were involved in helping review and give constructive criticism for this article, particularily Camaron, Shirulashem, Scartol, Finetooth, Jp07, and Ruhrfisch. Also NuclearWarfare, Eubulides, Rocksanddirt, Ealdgyth and Tony1 from the previous FAN. I have addressed their comments and suggestions for the article, and their input has helped this article improve.

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel like it has reached FAC status and is ready to become one of the very few high school FAs. I will do my best to address all correctable concerns in a timely fashion. Deltawk (talk) 01:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment, The first sentence gives the town and state, but not the country. This is an encyclopedic part of every article. Amandajm (talk) 04:47, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This has been fixed. -Deltawk (talk) 06:55, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Technical comments --an odd name 07:27, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No dab links, but current ref 107 appears to be gone from its page, and refs 86 and 87 redirect to an HTML web page, not a PDF.
 * All images have alt text with no obvious errors.
 * Make sure that ref date formats are consistent with their ISO style; I had to change one.
 * Response - I have replaced the URLS for refs 86 and 87 (now they are actually 88 and 89) with working links. I have also looked over the reference list twice and replaced 4 dates that were not in ISO style. Thank you for your comments, do you have any more suggestions on how to improve the article? - Deltawk (talk) 08:32, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * All external links appear to work now. Also make sure to check for duplicate references; see my last edit there.  (I'll stay neutral on this article.) --an odd name 17:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - I have removed a duplicate reference, I do not believe there are any more duplicates. - Deltawk (talk) 23:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment. Please see my query re "lumber" in the edit history page.
 * Paragraphs. There are some problems. If you try to maintain a strictly chronological order, your reader becomes exhausted flicking their mind back to a previous paragraph. For example, this sentence, From 1922 to 1988, the school was part of the AVJUHSD.[5][13] and that which follows about Dublin have nothing to do with the next sentence about the construction of the theater.
 * Can I suggest that you work carefully through the history section, and group "like information". So that the statement about the region is immediately followed by the history of this school's part within the region, and division from it. It is easier if the paragraphs are thematic, perhaps with an overall chronology about them, so that the statement about the district kicks in at 1988, when the change was made, rather than 1922, which has already been indicated in the part about the school's foundation.
 * Likewise, discussion of parental and citizen involvement needs to be followed by more info on the same subject, if available.  Hope this is helpful!
 * Please check my spelling as I write British/Australian English and sometimes am not aware of spelling protocols in U.S. articles. Amandajm (talk) 08:57, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response -  I do like your new wording of the sentences involving the lumber, thank you. I have reorganized the information in the history section into subsections. How do you think of it so far and how could it be improved? There is no more information about the school's parental and citizen involvement in the book that I retrieved the information from, sadly. - Deltawk (talk) 09:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Support Amandajm (talk) 10:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the support. - Deltawk (talk) 02:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments - Sounds like a much cooler high school than the one I went to. I have some comments, questions, and recommendations below: Sasata (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "...out of concerns for overcrowding and transportation for students travelling to other schools." replace 1st "for" with "of"
 * "...the increased population produced an increase in student enrollment." There's a cause-effect relationship implied there which is probably true, but is not exactly stated in the the 1st ref that's given (current ref #13). I'd prefer if the term "produced" was replaced with "coincided with". Also, please ensure that pages numbers are given for multi-page documents like this, to help those readers that want to verify the information.
 * "As of 2009, the district contains two comprehensive high schools (Amador Valley and Foothill), two continuation high schools" please link or define "continuation high school"
 * "The Fall Festival parade starts on the Amador Valley parking lot, travels down Main Street, and ends near the fairgrounds, with bands, floats, balloons, horses, and antique cars." Sentence construction seems slightly awkward to me... how about "The Fall Festival parade, which features bands, floats, balloons, horses, and antique cars, starts on the Amador Valley parking lot, travels down Main Street, and ends near the fairgrounds."
 * "In 1927, Pleasanton mothers decided to start a school lunch program to help students learn better." Learn what? Cooking? How to eat well?
 * "Parents donated pots and pans, and a newly hired cook prepared lunches, to be eaten at tables and benches constructed by the custodian and the music teacher from wood of horse stalls formerly on the campus." Sentence doesn't read well to me
 * "... but for the 1968–69 school year, both high schools were on double sessions on the Amador Valley campus." What does double sessions mean?
 * "As more families moved to the Pleasanton region, Foothill High School was formed in 1973." "formed" strikes me as an odd choice of verb... how about built, constructed, or completed?
 * suggest wlinking substitute, and unionized
 * "The measured added renovated science classrooms," fix
 * wlink superintendent
 * don't think the 6 character traits need to be capitalized
 * "Amador Valley curriculum offers 20 Advanced Placement classes" Since the shortform "AP" is used several times after this sentence, I suggest adding (AP) after its first full mention
 * "The average participant takes 4.3 exams..." Per class? Per program? Per semester?
 * "also offers AP courses in Social Sciences and Visual and Performing Arts." These don't need caps (as well as "Literature" previously, and "Vocational education" in the next sentence)
 * wlink flora and fauna
 * "...these resources include data descriptions, a virtual tour of the creek..." Not clear what is meant by "data descriptions"; what does "virtual tour" mean?
 * "Research projects from the creek and other sources have led to sweepstakes awards " I doubt the creek has done any research projects; what's a sweepstakes award?
 * "...and has won four EBAL Championships." EBAL?
 * "The school provides facilities free of charge for three Special Olympic events: Basketball, Track, and Volleyball..." No caps on the sports, and the punctuation in this sentence needs revising.
 * "Amador Valley High School, the first to represent California at the Midwestern event, finished fifth in the championship." Hard to tell how much of an achievement this is without some context... how many competed?
 * that's quite a list of extracurricular activities in this high school; at my school all I remember was chess club and drama club!
 * maybe for the alumni list would it be a good idea to add their graduation year parenthetically?
 * any info on when the emblem was created?
 * Response - Thank you for taking your time to look over the article in detail and to leave your comments. I have addressed your comments, although if you would still like me to change anything please let me know and I will gladly do so. The math team placed 5th out of 10 teams. I don't have a source for their being 10 teams at the competition - although this is somewhat more notable because only the top three teams from all participating states were invited. I would like to add their graduation years, but I do not have graduation years for many of the alumni so that list would be incomplete. I do not have information on when the emblem was created. - Deltawk (talk) 06:48, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the changes. I'm leaning towards support, but will come back again for a second read in a few days, and I'll probably offer a few more tweaks. Sasata (talk) 07:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Support - I made a couple of tweaks to the prose. Kudos on your hard work and persistence, the article now has my support. Sasata (talk) 17:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the help - Deltawk (talk) 02:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Image review - The images were reviewed last time the article was up for FAC. Have they changed since then? Awadewit (talk) 23:58, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Two images (under alumni and student outreach) have been readded or added. Otherwise, the images are the exact same. - Deltawk (talk) 06:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please link the new ones here - thanks. Awadewit (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Gladly - and  - Deltawk (talk) 01:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Those check out. Awadewit (talk) 00:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Support. I reviewed this article several weeks ago, and I've been pleased to see Deltawk's indefatigable, precise dedication to its improvement. I believe the source on this photo needs to be more accurately specified, but otherwise it appears to be of FA quality. Scartol •  Tok  16:48, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response I have received OTRS verification that the author of the photo has released it under the mentioned license. Christopher Stair is a friend (and owner of the photo) who had release its permissions. - Deltawk (talk) 02:55, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the support. - Deltawk (talk) 02:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * Current ref 22 (Prop 8 Ruling..) is the LA Progressive a newspaper? Needs to be italicised. Also, what makes this a reliable source?
 * Current ref 92 (Casey..) newspaper title needs italicised.
 * And there are other newspapers that need italicised past current ref 92 (The bing refs - 96, 97, 98, 99) and on out. Please double check this.
 * : Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:53, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Thanks for being able to re-review the article. I've replaced the article from the LA Progressive with a reference to the official PDF file with the quote. I've also italicized the newspapers that I found were not italicized. - Deltawk (talk) 06:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Comments -
 * The enrollment subsection is placed beneath the awards subsection. Every book I've ever seen about a specific school discusses the enrollment/class size trends first.
 * There is no drop-down list of recent enrollment numbers (say from 1990 to 2009). There is also nothing at Pleasanton Unified School District. Does this school for some reason not get given a School Accountability Report Card each year?
 * Ottre 17:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Thank you for your comments. I have reorganized the academics section of the article so that enrollment is discussed first. I have added a chart of the recent enrollment numbers to Pleasanton Unified School District. I tried to put the chart in this article too, but the placement of the chart relative to the images did not work out. Do you feel like there is some way I could still include the recent enrollment trends? - Deltawk (talk) 02:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a collapsible navbox. It's a less than perfect solution, but I can't think of anything else. Tell me if you want to change the colours, I'm using orange because I think that is what is used on high school reports in the USA. Ottre 12:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - May you change the colors to purple and gold/white? Orange and yellow don't seem to fit that well in the article. Thanks for adding the collapsible navbox too - I was looking for the wikicode to make it collapsible but couldn't find it. You added exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. - Deltawk (talk) 04:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Ottre 14:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - I notice that the only references in the paragraph about the school hosting the ABC basketball tournament are the articles by Heidi Massie, and they are both rather lacking in detail. I'm sure many others have written about the tournament. There's no problem with using Massie as a source, but you also should also include articles from respected high-school/college basketball sports writers. Ottre 19:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - I've tried to look for more references, but the only other third-party reliable source I can find so far about the ABC history is - which doesn't really give any additional information. I'll continue looking. - Deltawk (talk) 04:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I found nothing in the EBSCO and HW Wilson databases. You may want to get someone who has access to Factiva to search for you, as it has the full-text archive of the Los Angeles Daily News and recent articles from the Los Angeles Times (going back to 2000, if I remember correctly). Both of these papers have good coverage of high-school sports in California.


 * If you do go that far in your research, you might want to see our article on Riordan High. This school runs the "Crusader Classic" tournament, which has apparently been running for almost as long as the ABC. Notice that the article includes a lot more information on the school's championship teams. Ottre 14:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - Do we really need to mention that Aliya Deri was featured in a book about the National Spelling Bee? WorldCat says the book in question is only held by 24 libraries in the USA. Ottre 15:35, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - I've removed the reference to the book. - Deltawk (talk) 16:28, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments Oppose Comments (from Ruhrfisch). I peer reviewed this some time ago and was asked to look at it again for the FAC. I think it has improved quite a bit, but have some comments that need to be addressed before I can support. Most of these are pretty minor. OK, I still need to read the Extracurricular activities section carefully, but will get to it soon. This is a start for you. Looks good overall, leaning toward support assuming these are fixed. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC) Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:32, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Per WP:OVERLINK, I doubt USA needs to be linked in the first sentence in the lead (I agree that including the country is needed, just do not need to link it)
 * Despite your supposedly addressing all of my comments, this was still linked. I was bold and delinked it. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a problem with the lead sentence identifying two common short names for the school (Amador and AVHS) then using "Amador Valley" in the next sentence and never using "AVHS" (outside of references) in the rest of the article. I did not count, but Amador Valley seems to be used more in the article than just Amador
 * I do not doubt that people call it "Amador" and "AVHS". The lead is supposed to be a summary of the article, but AVHS is never used again in the text of the article (it is in a few refs). If it is a common name, why not use it here? More importantly, it seems to me that "Amador Valley" (which the article uses more frequently than any other short name) seems like it would be a common short name too. Is it? If so, why not include it? If not, why are you using it so much? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the second paragraph of the lead, I think it would help to give the year for these statistics (As of 2009...)
 * This has not been addressed. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In Region and districts, can the type of theater company be clarified oin The theater hosted school plays, band concerts, performances, lectures, and assemblies, and was the former home of the successful theatre group Cask and Mask, now known as "The Masquers".[10] Is Cask and Mask / The Massquers a professional company or a community theater group? I would add the adjective (i.e. "...successful community theatre company...") Also why is The Masquers in quotations when Cask and Mask is not? I would be consistent on quotes with names (and my preference is for no quotes, but I am OK either way)
 * You have neither indicated what kind of theatre company this is, nor have you made the quotation marks consistent. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The menaing of this sentence is clear, but it is awkward After a series of freeways was built pursuant to the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956, the increased population coincided with an increase in student enrollment.[11][12] Perhaps something like The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 led to the building of a series of freeways in the region, which led in turn to increaded population and an increase in student enrollment. Not super, but maybe this can be used to smooth it out...
 * Nor have you addressed this point Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The school grounds are bordered on the east and southeast by Santa Rita Road and the Altamont Commuter Express (ACE).[16] 
 * I might indicate that the ACE is a rail line and not another road (...Santa Rita Road and the tracks of the Altamont Commuter Express...).
 * I am not sure why the abbrevaiation ACE is given as I do not see it used in the article again. Same thing for J8 later. G8 later is probably OK as it is a more familiar abbreviation.
 * Finally specifying what is on two sides of the school makes me wonder what is on the other sides? This could be general (downtown / businesses/ residential neighborhoods - whatever)
 * Nor have you addressed any of these three related points. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This is really nitpicky, but is it "the AVJUHSD" or just "AVJUHSD" - the article uses both, should probably be consistent (article or not)
 * This has also not been addressed Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I would add the year to Amador Valley was cited by dissenting Justice Carlos R. Moreno in arguing the non-constitutionality of California Proposition 8.[21] otherwise uninformed readers might think Prop 8 was also in or shortly after 1978''
 * No change here whatsoever. Ten points checked and none of them done despite what you say below. I am done reviewing this. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the original Don Amador was Spanish, so why include Portugese and Italian in Don is a Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian term used as a mark of high esteem for a distinguished nobleman or gentleman.?
 * This is confusing Much of the original Amador Valley High School building was torn down in 1968 and replaced. In 1969, new buildings were required after Amador Valley reached maximum capacity at about 1,895 students. Dublin High School was founded to accommodate student needs, but for the 1968–69 school year, both high schools held classes on the Amador Valley campus.[24] They tore down the old school in 1968 and replaced it (apparently that same year?) Then the next year (1969) they realized they needed new buildings? Didn't they know this when they tore down the old school? Plus they were hosting another school (all while their own building was torn dwon, replaced, and then more buildings were added??) My guess is these sentences need to be rewritten to be clearer as to what was going on and when
 * Nitpciky - is it "Amador Valley teachers" or "Amador Valley Teachers"? Both are used - the latter makes it sound like an official group (this is in the section on the Strike)
 * Given the development section, would it make sense to add major contruction in 1968, 1997 and 2004 to the lead?
 * Needs a year Amador Valley operates on a 7:00 a.m. to 3:09 p.m. schedule (8:48 a.m to 2:55 p.m. on Wednesdays to provide time to teachers for collaborative planning). This includes seven periods of instruction, a lunch, and a brunch.[31] "As of 2009" would work, but it would be better if it were a "Since 200X" formulation (if that is known)
 * First paragraph of Programs needs a year too (any specific statistics in an article like this do)
 * I would define what a passing grade is (3 or better?) in Nearly half of Amador Valley students participate in the school's AP Program. The average participant takes 4.3 exams per year and 87.5 percent of students pass.[44]
 * I would identify Thiel better in the first sentence on him, so that allow these organisms (in the creek) to coexist," said Eric Thiel, an Amador Biology teacher and co-founder of the project then on second mention (per the MOS) he is just Thiel: In 2001, Thiel and the school received a National Semiconductor "Internet Innovator Award" for the Project Creek Watch website.[50]
 * There is one dab link with the dab checker
 * There is one dead link with the EL checker
 * There is one blue link to a news article that is no longer at that link. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is one fact tag that needs a ref (citation needed)
 * established does not work as a verb for operettas and parades in Tripp was the director of bands at Amador Valley, and also established an orchestra, a glee club, parades, and numerous operettas.[58] (unless he was the composer?? Even then there has to be a better way to say this)
 * Another sentence that is a bit awkward - not really sure what it means, so not really sure how to fix it. In addition to on-campus math competitions, the Amador Valley Math Team also competes locally.
 * Not changed - the previous paragraph has competitions where it seems that the Math Team had to travel off campus to compete, so I just do not understand the purpose of this sentence. SHould it be removed? Or perhaps it could be changed to convey the point / difference better (not sure what the point is or I'd suggest something) Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the next sentence, why is it important and/or encyclopedic to tell the reader the Math Team finished ahead of Cupertino High School? Seems like a POV statment to me (in your face, Cupertino!)
 * I was OK saying who they placed second to (OK to name the first place team) Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * More POV concerns: "respectable" in They placed a respectable seventh in the field of twelve.[79] - checked the source and it does not use the word. Drop it.
 * Power Ranger needs a ref, or removed from notable list
 * That is it for specifics. The Extracurricular activites section seems to have a little bit of WP:RECENTISM and perhaps WP:WEIGHT issues, but then again not many schools have an underwater robot club. In any case, it is not enough to oppose over. I also made a few copyedits as I went through this - please revert if I introduced any errors. Nice job! Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Hi Ruhrfisch, thank you for your comments. I have gone through the article and addressed all of the suggestions that you have made. The dab link and the dead link have been removed, and the line about David Yost has been removed (until a reliable reference can be found). I included the two alternate names for the school (Amador and AVHS) because these are commonly used around the community, although they appear little or not at all in the article. I have added years to the facts that you pointed out and have tried to clarify awkward and unclear sentences. If there's anything else I can do to improve the article, please let me know. - Deltawk (talk) 22:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Deltawk, YOU asked me to come here and review this. I took the time that I could have devoted to other things and did so. Now you tell me "I have gone through the article and addressed all of the suggestions that you have made." but when I take more time and check what you have done, you have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on my first ten comments - see above. Please stop wasting my time. I am changing to Oppose and please do not ask me to look at this again until every single point has been addressed - does not have to be fixed if you do not think so, but READ what I write and REPLY to it. This makes me angry, when you aks me to review this and then do not have the common courtesy to even read my responses and then say you "fixed them all". Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * PS Enrollment numbers is still a dead link. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Dear Ruhrfisch - If you look at the edit history of the article, you can see that I had addressed the comments in your feedback as of 14:28 today. Recently, Ottre left a comment on my talk page saying that all my edits had been reversed due to an edit conflict . I will readdress all your comments - sorry for your delay and thank you for your continued patience. - Deltawk (talk) 02:06, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Deltawk, my sincere apologies. I checked the most recent version when I made my one recent edit diff and looked at the overall diff between my previous edit and the edit before the one I made diff. I did not do a diff by diff check. Please let me know when you have restored the changes. I have struck my snarky comment and oppose above. Sorry for the confusion, Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Hi Ruhrfisch, I have restored all of the changes. If there is any other comments you have about the article, please notify me and I will make the appropriate changes. - Deltawk (talk) 04:34, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I replied above - there are a few minor points left, but not enough to prevent my supporting this for FA, so I have switched to support above. Thanks for taking care of all this. Ruhrfisch <sub style="color:green;">&gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:17, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Response - Hi Ruhrfisch, thank you for your support. Sorry about not changing the confusing sentence about the math team. I had actually changed the introduction to the 4th paragraph in stead of the 2nd paragraph. I have removed the confusing sentence from the 2nd paragraph of the Math Team section now. I have also readded the reference to Lynbrook High School and I have changed the URL to the Robotics article so that it will no longer need a redirect. I appreciate your time and your work with helping make this article FA class. - Deltawk (talk) 02:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.