Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Amazing Grace/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:34, 25 January 2010.

Amazing Grace

 * Nominator(s): Moni3 (talk) 00:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I assert it's Awadewit's fault that she was making me read about hymns and then all the sudden, in 24 hours, I had gotten all inspired to write this article. That would, however, neglect the fact that I really do think something about this song has a universal transformative power and that many versions I have heard, Judy Collins' among them, have been some of the most moving pieces of music I have ever known. Strangely enough, if you place a few versions back to back, it's very much like listening to different songs in each one. At any rate, let me know what I can do to improve it. Thanks. Moni3 (talk) 00:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

ADD I hate to be a mooch (really), but there are no good mp3 to ogg converters for Mac laptops. There is a shape note version of this song that I can justify with a fair use rationale (but is probably in PD), hosted here: Might anyone be able to convert a 30-second sample of this to ogg to place in the article? Preferably getting the beginning, fa-so-la intro before the words. Thank you in advance. --Moni3 (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I use for Ogg files on OS X.  Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 02:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * At the risk of indicating just how hopelessly technologically stupid I am, any ideas on how to grab the mp3 format from that link so I can attempt a conversion using the program you just linked to? --Moni3 (talk) 03:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Click the link for the MP3 in Safari (linked below). Go to Window:Activity, find the page you opened, and then Option-Click the file. (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/natlib/ihas/service/amazinggrace/200049059/0001.mp3]) That will begin the download (you can use that trick for everything from page elements to Youtube videos.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk ) 11:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'll give that a try. I work usually in Firefox on the Mac. Never done what you just outlined, so it's good to know. --Moni3 (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If something was supposed to happen, it didn't. Everything seemed to follow except for the err, download part. --Moni3 (talk) 21:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, wait. I think I got it. (Just how much do I sound like someone's grandmother trying to set the VCR??) --Moni3 (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment: In refs but not notes: Martin and Spurrell (eds.)(1962); Newton (1811). The former might explain why the Martin notes include the year of publication [Martin (1950)], while others do not. &bull; Ling.Nut 07:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed that thing...I think...Let me know if what I fixed is not what you are telling me to fix. --Moni3 (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments These days, I hear it most often in commercials. They don't do it justice; at a glance, this article does. --an odd name 15:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No dab links or dead external links—good.
 * Alt text looks good. I take issue with only one word: "Original".  Is it obvious to non-experts that File:New Britain Southern Harmony Amazing Grace.jpg shows the original long hymnal?
 * Dates appear to be Month Day, Year in refs. May want to use that style if there are dates in the text too (couldn't find any).  Keep them consistent.
 * Personally, I prefer nested references for notes. They are harder to type and maintain, though, so no biggie.


 * Comments -
 * What makes http://www.hymnary.org/about a reliable source? I lean reliable, but need a bit more to push me over.
 * Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * According to their site (which I'm sure you checked), Hymnary.org is a project of the Christian Classics Ethereal Library and the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship, both located at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI
 * Hymnary.org is being used to cite that "Amazing Grace" is Newton's spiritual autobiography. Other sources have said this as well, and in fact, people like Arlo Guthrie and Joan Baez have said that their interest in the song is because of Newton's life.
 * Hymnary.org is also being used to cite that "Amazing Grace" appears in over 1,000 hymnals, which I do not doubt, and its purpose in religious services. At least for this last point, I think it is wholly appropriate to state what the purpose of the hymn is, its role during a service and what message should accompany it (rather, if the song is an appropriate accompaniment for a particular sermon) according to an ecclesiastical organization, particularly in the section that discusses the multiple uses it has taken on in the last 40 years. --Moni3 (talk) 17:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that works for leaving it out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good, I'd support it. Candyo32 (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Candyo32, do you have any thoughts on the article, its sources, etc.? Featuring an article takes consensus, not simple votes—if Raul654 or someone else decided they should review or un-feature this article and wonder why you supported it, what would you tell them? (I bolded your support to make it easier to see, by the way.) --an odd name 22:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support with a few comments. This is really good! I'll have to attend my Living Without Commas support group tonight, but I recognize it's an editorial preference so I won't complain. Nice work Moni!
 * I don't have a problem with Hymnary.org for what it's supporting.
 * I did not see any problems with the PD images.
 * "'Amazing Grace' is one of the most recognized songs" Dunno, but "recognized" struck my editing Spidey-sense. It seems to connote "recognize with awards" and such; do you mean "recognizable"?
 * "until he quit going to sea altogether and began to study theology" Suggest "began studying" for parallel goodness.
 * "His disobedience caused him to be press-ganged into the Royal Navy" Why say "press-ganged" here when you said "pressed" in the lead? The reader will double-take to find out of they mean different things.
 * "In An Annotated Anthology of Hymns, Newton's use of an expletive at the beginning of his verse is called 'crude but effective'" I didn't understand this passage. What expletive? Do you mean in the sense of meaningless filler, or an actual profanity? In either case, it's not made clear what the expletive is supposed to be.
 * "it has been used for a variety of secular purposes and marketing campaigns, placing it in danger of becoming a cliché." Is that attributed to Turner?
 * Favorite line of the article: "The pipe president of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards was summoned to Edinburgh Castle and chastised for demeaning the bagpipes."
 * -- Andy Walsh  (talk)  17:51, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Made some changes to the lead per your suggestion, and changed press-ganged to pressed.
 * The expletive in this sense is that the first line is "Amazing grace!" meant to be said or sung with some force. Not the same way...well, maybe the same tone...as one might say "shit!" But clearly not for the same purpose. I peeked at a thesaurus for "expletive" and one of the synonyms listed was "bark"... That just made me laugh. Do you suggest something else? Ejaculation? *cough* Shriek? Vociferation? Thesauruses are fun. Thanks for your review. --Moni3 (talk) 18:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Drive-by suggestion: Exclamation? Not sure if that's any better, but it was my first thought. ManfromButtonwillow (talk) 05:04, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I used "exclamation" in the preceding sentence. Word diversity and all. --Moni3 (talk) 13:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.