Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Andrew Johnston (singer)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 03:39, 14 November 2009.

Andrew Johnston (singer)

 * Nominator(s): J Milburn (talk) 15:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because it is a well referenced, comprehensive article. It's fairly short, but there isn't much to say about him- further, I'm not expecting any updates in the near future, as he is taking a year out of music. Suggestions and comments are more than welcome. J Milburn (talk) 15:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright review: Both images look good. NW ( Talk ) 15:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments There are still some differing date formats in the references that need to be formatted. Hekerui (talk) 20:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Made some fixes. Any I missed? J Milburn (talk) 00:15, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. Alt text done; thanks. Please add alt text to images; see Alternative text for images. Eubulides (talk) 07:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done my best- never done that before. J Milburn (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks very nice; thanks again. Eubulides (talk) 03:34, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments thus far- I will address them later today or tomorrow at the latest. J Milburn (talk) 10:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Ot
 * 1) OK! magazine is not a very good source.
 * It's being used only for the DOB- that's often not even referenced. It's hardly controversial information, and it is from an interview with Johnston- hardly a gossip piece.
 * 1) What makes acharts.us reliable?
 * Record charts seems to be ok with its use- I remember choosing it based on the guidance offered there.
 * 1) Please update and add archive links where applicable that the dead link check shows.
 * I sorted the MSN link, but it would seem the Daily Record links rot, and the stories are not archived anywhere. What's the procedure, here? They were published online, and they were published in the hard copy papers- it's still citable, right?
 * 1) Lead doesn't follow MOS:DOB
 * Sorry, in what way? Should I not state where he was born?
 * It is already stated in the "personal life" Spiderone  08:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but everything in the lead should be redundant- the guidelines must have changed at some point, because we certainly used to state locations. Changing now. J Milburn (talk) 11:36, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) I don't think the Albums section is needed unless he releases another album, instead use Template:main on the albums section.
 * It's fairly standard, and does provide key information at a glance- note also that there probably will be more albums. I'm not convinced- does anyone else have an opinion on this? I have added main though. J Milburn (talk) 00:31, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * --Otterathome (talk) 21:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments by Sasata (talk) 17:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC) I thought it would be good to balance the FAC review karma somewhat, as J Milburn has been kind enough to give detailed reviews of some of my FAC submissions. Ok, here goes:
 * Thanks, and I realise that this subject may well be of no interest to you at all!


 * "...he was signed to judge Simon Cowell's label SyCo Music." needs rewording, when I first read it I wondered what the lad would be judging
 * Rephrased. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "and he is currently taking a year out to allow his voice to develop." Does one take a year out or a year off?
 * Switched. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "He had moved to Carlisle, where he lived in "poverty",[3] as an infant after his parents separated." It reads to me like the second comma is there to make a convenient pause so that the citation can be neatly tucked in, but the sentence doesn't read right to me with it
 * I've been picked up on this before, and so I'm guessing it's a chiefly British technique, but we call it parenthesis (and we call your parenthesis "brackets"). We have a very short article on it here- basically, the commas separate out a clarifying clause- clarifying the fact he lived in "poverty" in Carlisle. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "While some journalists have said Johnston's background was taken advantage of by the..." reads awkwardly to me
 * Changed. No idea why I wrote it like that... J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "On top of his musical career, Johnston continues to live in Carlisle with his mother, and is now home tutored." To me, the sentence reads like "In addition to his musical career, Johnston lives with his mommy and doesn't get out much." ... is that the effect you were going for? :)
 * Not really :) I was aware of the fact that I have a section on his personal life, and the fact that he's not a singer 24/7. I was just trying to give a spark of what his real life is like. Do you think it should be changed? J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How long had Johnston been with the Carlisle choir, i.e. how old was he when he joined? How old when named head chorister?
 * He was five when he joined, but I'm not certain when he became head... I'm having trouble accessing the Cumberland News site to clarify that. I've made some adjustments. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "The idea of the tour was conceived because the diocese of Stavanger is a partner to the diocese of Carlisle.[9]" Doesn't quite connect yet ... how are they partners? How did the partnership lead to the conception of the tour idea?
 * Added some information about the partnership sourced to the Carlisle Diocese website. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "The day after the final, for Simon Cowell's publicist" extra word in there?
 * Fixed. Too involved in the text... J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "...Johnston was presented a gold disc by Penny Smith" how about a couple of words to tell us who Penny Smith is
 * Done. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "Johnston announced that he would be taking a year out from singing due to the breaking of his voice," passive voice?
 * Fixed. J Milburn (talk)
 * "Johnston said that his father is "not really a part of my life. It was my decision"." It's not clear what this decision was, as it was his mother who left the husband
 * It was his decision that the father is not part of his life? I've added some more of the quote, hopefully that clarifies the meaning. J Milburn (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Source comments Everything seems to be fine in general. Good quality for a pop cult article. RB88 (T) 18:16, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ACharts needs to be replaced as it is not FA reliable. Use this: http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/andrew_johnston_cd_one_voice_is_number_four_in_uk_top_40_album_chart_1_250756?referrerPath=home and this: http://www.irma.ie/charts_archive/week41_08.asp
 * Thanks, made the swaps. J Milburn (talk) 12:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This is dead: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/entertainment-news/2008/09/11/britain-s-got-talent-schoolboy-andrew-johnston-beats-bullies-to-complete-first-album-86908-20731673/
 * Yeah, see above. The Daily Record links rot. Should I just remove the link and use them as an offline reference? J Milburn (talk) 12:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, because the material needs to be in existence to warrant inclusion as a reference. The link has to be removed regardless as it is dead. If you can't source the material from the print version or from elsewhere, then the whole reference and its material must be removed. RB88 (T) 19:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Anything that was published on the website was also published in the print version. I do not have access to the print version, but I do know it says the same thing. J Milburn (talk) 09:24, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you source and cite the print version then all well and good. As it stands, the source is not viable. Anyway, a simple Google archive search should help you source the info from other places. I checked. RB88 (T) 14:42, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will adress this when I find a spare quarter of an hour. Been finding myself busy... J Milburn (talk) 12:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the delay, I will be doing this later today. J Milburn (talk) 10:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/comment/columnists/showbiz-tv-columnists/brian-mciver/2008/12/18/it-s-been-an-amazing-year-all-of-my-dreams-came-true-86908-20979091/ has not yet rotted- is there a way I can get this archived somewhere for when it does? J Milburn (talk) 14:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done what I can. No dead links left in the article. I decided not to cite the paper story. J Milburn (talk) 14:28, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * There's plenty of information here, but it isn't tied together well enough. The article simply isn't well written enough for an FA. I am going to have a go at improving it. I am strongly opposed to the article ending with a negative comment by Andrew's mother about her reasons for leaving her husband. Presumably Andrew's father is alive somewhere, and regardless of the fact that his mother made an ungarded comment to the media, it adds little quality to an article about Andrew. Amandajm (talk) 12:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I could look into balancing it with a quote from his father? J Milburn (talk) 13:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.