Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 23:28, 27 March 2010.

Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)

 * Nominator(s): I.M.S. (talk) 23:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I am presenting Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire), a classic British album from 1969, for your scrutiny. It has gone through three peer reviews and a successful GAN. I've been working on it since August 2009, bringing it up from a stub/start to, hopefully, an article that meets all FA criteria. As always, please express your opinions on the article, and I will attempt to respond to you promptly and address any issues raised. Thanks to all of you for your time and patience; I look forward to your opinions on the page. - I.M.S. (talk) 23:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. No problems in dab links, external links, or alt text. Ucucha 00:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Support I peer reviewed this and just finished a follow-up review on the talk page with a few copyedits - all of the concerns I raised there have been addressed. I have just reread the article and find it meets the FA criteria. I have a few suggestions, which do not detract from my support.
 * I would add the song or songs about the death of his brother to this  With an underlying theme of nostalgia,[39] the songs describe the England that Arthur once knew[19] ("Shangri-La", "Young and Innocent Days"), ... and the death of his brother in World War I.[37][30] Assume it is "Some Mother's Son", although "Yes SIr, No Sir" might apply to the military experience too.
 * I am not sure Queen Victoria should be identified in the alt text, per WP:ALT Alt text typically should not name people or objects in an image. When in doubt, assume that an entity is not iconic, and needs to be named in the caption or nearby article text, as very few entities have an appearance that is iconic.
 * Well done, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 12:10, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support and suggestions! I've made some changes to the article, per your comments. Responding to the "Victoria" point: I agree with you; I had initially supposed that V.R. was iconic enough to merit mention in the alt text, but, thinking about it, I realize that she isn't as recognizable outside of the English-speaking world. Changed to "richly dressed queen". - I.M.S. (talk) 16:29, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * All done, thanks Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support a high quality article, worthy of FA status. Dincher (talk) 22:35, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words! - I.M.S. (talk) 23:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments:
 * Mr Hinman's book seems to provide a lot of the material for this article. I'm not as experienced with article reviews as others here but I wonder whether this should be cause for any concern? I just want to make sure we stay on the right side of Mr Hinman. I guess this can't be checked without an independent review from someone who owns the book. But I would be grateful for any kind of assurance that we haven't violated his copyright nor stripped his work of everything he says on the subject of this album. If the nominator is the only contributor that owns the book I would just ask him to consider this issue. Perhaps another reviewer can flag up the relevant policies/guidelines?
 * The lede refers to 'Arthur' then later on at packaging and liner notes and in the caption for the Queen Victoria pic we're told of 'Arthur Morgan'. I guess I'm a bit slow today but I spent 30 seconds thinking "who's Arthur Morgan?" So assuming that what I finally concluded is correct, should we refer to Arthur Morgan in the lede, instead of just calling him Arthur?
 * Those points aside, enjoyed the article and it made me want to hear the album, so good work. --bodnotbod (talk) 14:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments—on the Hinman point, I'm not sure. I would greatly appreciate an expert on the subject's opinion, as you said. I use Hinman as a source quite a bit simply because he has written one of the most definitive books on the subject; in the meantime, however, I will attempt to reduce the article's dependency on Hinman. - I.M.S. (talk) 15:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yes—if the concern is that I've copied anything verbatim from the book (other than quotes), I'd like to make it clear that I haven't, and this can be verified by a quick Google books search. I know that pure information can't be copyrighted, but is it alright if, for example, Hinman says "X song was recorded on July 5th, likely with y player serving on bass," and I write in the article: "the sessions for x song occurred on July 5, and Hinman estimates y player was on bass"; or "the sessions for x song occurred on July 5, probably with y player playing bass"? Sorry if that seemed jumbled, but again, I would appreciate other people's opinions on the subject. - I.M.S. (talk) 15:31, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I've made a few edits, attempted to introduce some diversity with other sources, and hopefully reduced the article's dependency on Hinman. How do you think it looks now? - I.M.S. (talk) 23:35, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support - I massaged the prose a little. I am not an expert in the area but the article impresses me as comprehensive with no glaring omissions and the prose has no glaring glitches. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:56, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support. I'm glad to hear you found it comprehensive. - I.M.S. (talk) 01:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments This article is well-done, although I have a few quibbles. How should the band be named: "The Kinks" or "the Kinks"? Is referring to it as "Kinks" OK? All of these options are used in the lead; it looks awkward to me with upper/lowercase interchanging in the middle of the sentences; I think you should pick "the Kinks" or "The Kinks" and stick to it. Good work on the image of the Kinks, but maybe perhaps four example of fair-use media is too much? I'm not sure the inset image is necessary; it's not really discussed in the text. The cover art is standard, and I think both audio files are good, but the Victoria one looks awkwardly placed with regards to its purpose. Would it be possible to put it in the Story and themes section without squishing or bloating? It's not a huge concern (if it's possible, great, if it isn't, it's not a big deal.)   Maxim (talk)  03:17, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello there, Maxim - on the "the Kinks/Kinks/The Kinks" point, following is an explanation of what I've done throughout the article. I use "The Kinks" throughout, with the exception of quotes, where, if the original author said, e.g., "and so the Kinks recorded a song", I will reproduce the quote verbatim and keep the use of lower case in the title. You can visit WP:MUSTARD for more information. That one instance of "Kinks" in the lead was added a while back by a copyeditor; I'll remove it. Also, I've had several people oppose the use of the insert image. I'll go ahead and remove that as well, if there are no objections. - I.M.S. (talk) 03:38, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I might keep the instance of "Kinks" in the lead - I believe it's acceptable to say "Beatles" or "Beatle" -- "Former Beatle John Lennon". - I.M.S. (talk) 03:40, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.