Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Avenue Range Station massacre/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 02:24, 24 March 2018.

Avenue Range Station massacre

 * Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

While this is not the first article about an atrocity I've brought to FAC, it is the first one from the Australian Frontier Wars that I've nominated. At Avenue Range Station in 1848, two white settlers massacred at least nine Aboriginal people, mainly women and children, including a baby. The main perpetrator, James Brown, was charged with the murders, but it didn't go to trial due to settler solidarity and legal restrictions on evidence being given by Aboriginal people. Years later, a "pioneer legend" arose about Brown which downplayed the murders. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:06, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks Nikkimaria! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:26, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Sources review
The sources are in good order, and are of appropriate quality and reliability. My one issue of concern is that a number of books listed as "References" are not directly cited at all. An example is Cook 1965. The "Later account" sections gives various details from this book, including a direct quotation, but they are all apparently covered by a single citation to another book. Likewise, later, Newland 1893, Cockburn 1927, Hastings 1944, Banks 1970 and Durman 1978. Is it not possible to cite any of the material in these books directly – are they all impossible to obtain? Brianboulton (talk) 21:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * G'day, I cited them to provide the full information in case anyone wants to refer to them. I thought that was a useful addition, given they and their role in the development of the legend are discussed. The conclusions in the article that are drawn from those sources are made by others. Do you think they should be listed as "Further reading" and not cited? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll leave that to you. It would have made more sense to me, but I dare say the general reader won't be fazed either way. Brianboulton (talk) 10:35, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I might leave it for now, and adjust if other reviewers raise it as an issue. Thanks again, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

From FunkMonk

 * I'll take a look soon. FunkMonk (talk) 23:42, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the infobox have dates?
 * Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The caption to the old image could be clearer. I wasn't even sure who it depicted from reading the caption, so would be good to say something like "James Brown (pictured here in 1927)". The date also gives context.
 * Brown was dead by the time the pic was published in 1927, so I added (pictured) to the caption to make it clearer. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "undeclared and covert war" WP:Easter egg links are discouraged, so maybe spell out the name of the wars after this.
 * Reworded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Eighty paces from the graves" A unit conversion could be handy.
 * it's a bit vague for a conversion. I could perhaps equate paces with yards then convert to metres, but I don't think it lends itself to it very well. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "in which he listed the victims as one "old man blind and infirm", three female adults, two teenage girls (aged 15 and 12 years), and three female children (aged two years, 18 months, and a baby)" What was this precise list based on?
 * It is from Butler's (the magistrate) letter. But ultimately it is likely to be from Moorhouse's investigation, Moorhouse was a qualified doctor, and would have been familiar with using forensic dental examination and looking at wrist and pelvic bones to determine age and sex. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Foster et al." Present and give a date for context at first mention in the article body, this seems very detached from the surrounding text. The intro probably isn't the best place to spell out the names of writers.
 * I've introduced them as historians at first mention in the body, then used Foster et al. after that. I'm not sure what you mean here. Given Foster et al. are the principal examiners of this subject, I think it is fair to name them in the lead. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I missed that you named them outside the intro too, but you could also give the date. But apart from this, I'm ready to support. FunkMonk (talk) 14:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Done, . Thanks again for your review! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:43, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "the Wattatonga tribe" Link?
 * This is unclear, I have been unable to find a definitive connection to one of the major language groups in the southeast. I recently spoke to a Jardwadjali elder about it, and they said that the Wattatonga were part of their people, but given the location, they also might have been Ngarrindjeri people, and another source of possibly questionable reliability suggests Wattatonga was a name given to Tanganekald people by the neighbouring Boandik. Without a definite connection, I didn't want to link. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've subsequently found a pretty good reference to them being Tanganekald people (Tindale), so added a note to that effect. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:39, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Five years later" Probably better to just give a date. The reader has to jump back to the beginning of the previous paragraph to then calculate when that date is, which is unnecessary.
 * Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "a wonderful feat of horsemanship" Is this a quote? If so, needs quotation marks. If it is not a quote, it seems a bit flowery.
 * quoted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Is Eastwood's full name not known?
 * Not in the sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * All done,, except for a couple where I need more info on what you are referring to. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Support - everything looks good to me now. FunkMonk (talk) 01:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Comments by Dudley

 * "The Avenue Range Station massacre involved the shooting murders of at least nine Aboriginal Tanganekald people by white settlers" "involved the shooting murders" does not sound right to me. How about "The Avenue Range Station massacre was the murder of at least nine Aboriginal Tanganekald people, who were shot by white settlers"
 * Good suggestion, done.


 * "The pastoralist James Brown" Why not "the sheep farmer"?
 * Sure, that's just what Australians would call him, changed to sheep farmer.


 * "after a settler was hanged in March 1847 for murdering an Aboriginal man in the south east of the colony, the only such sentence in the history of South Australia's early white settlement" The only time a settler was sentenced to death or the only time the sentence was carried out?
 * Both I believe.
 * I should have made clear that I was also querying the grammar. Hanging is not a sentence but the carrying out of a sentence. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Quite so. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * "Moorhouse's original report in March 1849 stated that it had occurred some months before, but in his published report of October 1849, he placed it "about September" of 1848." Why "but"? The accounts seem consistent.
 * Changed to "and"


 * "Possibly in response to Brown's case, the Aboriginal Witnesses Act of 1848 was amended in July 1849 to allow a person to be convicted on the sole testimony of an Aboriginal person." Is it known whether anyone was so convicted/
 * Not in the sources, but it is possible for crimes other than murdering an Aboriginal person.


 * Looks good. These points are minor. Dudley Miles (talk) 19:26, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look, ! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:34, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - but see quibble above. Dudley Miles (talk) 20:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dudley! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:25, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Support by JennyOz
I made comments on this article late last year (talk page), have watched this review and am happy to support. JennyOz (talk) 05:20, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jenny! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:28, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

this looks good to go, can I have dispensation for a fresh nom please? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:28, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 02:24, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.