Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Trenton/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 23:30, 19 July 2008.

Battle of Trenton

 * Nominator(s): Red4tribe (talk)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I've done a ton of work on it, and I feel it is good enough to be a FA. Red4tribe (talk) 22:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * Current refs 2 and 3 (Battle of Trenton, Chalfont Web Design) the publisher should be British Battles.com, not Chalfont Web Design. It's the person/site putting the infromation out, not a web design firm, that is the publisher. Usually, you can tell who the publisher is by who is holding the copyright.
 * And what makes http://britishbattles.com/index.htm a reliable source?
 * Likewise http://www.strike-the-root.com/?
 * And http://www.patriotresource.com/history.html?
 * And http://www.doublegv.com/ggv/NJrev.html?
 * And http://www.davidhanauer.com/buckscounty/washingtoncrossing/?
 * Many of your published references are lacking publishers. I really can't judge their reliability because I need to have some idea of who published the book before that's possible.
 * Links checked out okay with the link checker. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comments: All images free use; licenses check out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 15:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oppose: There are multiple reasons why I don't believe this article fulfills the FA criteria at this time.
 * Most importantly, it is far too brief. While reading the first half, I kept finding myself asking "when?" "why?" "who said?" "how?"  An FA should not leave the reader asking questions.  Vague phrasing and tangent sentences should be addressed.
 * I'm obviously not a history buff, although I think I have a relative knowledge of the Revolutionary War. However, I found myself struggling with the context (or lack thereof).  The lead doesn't even say what two sides were involved in the battle; in fact, the first time the British are mentioned is in the second section, "Prelude".  At what point in the war does the battle take place?  What year, even?  (It's mentioned in the lead, but the lead is meant to be a summary of the entire article.)  When was war even declared?  Why?  Who was Washington?  His full name and position are not even explained!  All of this and more should be in the "Background" section.
 * The prose is often poor and at times reads as unencyclopedic (Even Washington expressed some doubts??). The first sentence alone is clumsy: The Battle of Trenton took place on December 26, 1776, during the American Revolutionary War after Washington's crossing of the Delaware River above Trenton, New Jersey.  Is this article about Washington's crossing of the Delaware or the Battle of Trenton?
 * The lead section currently does not give a proper overview of the article as per WP:LEAD.
 * Citation formatting is inconsistent. "Fischer, p.247." or "McCullough p.274"?  Institution, Chautauqua The Chautauquan 1892. in the Refs is somewhat baffling; Chautaugua Institution cannot be someone's name, surely?

I think the article needs a major overhaul, sadly. At any rate it isn't ready for FA. María ( habla con migo ) 15:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - Agree with María here. This fails 1a for prose, 1b for comprehensiveness, and there are problems with the citations. — Wackymacs ( talk  ~  edits ) 16:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The References section is quite lengthly, but I don't see all of those used for footnotes. Need to make a 'Further reading' section.
 * Also, there are missing ISBNs in the references list.
 * "McCullogh, David 1776.2005" - What is this?
 * Agree with unreliable sources mentioned by Ealdgyth.
 * "Prior to the battle, American morale was at an all time low. They had been ousted from New York, and the Army had been forced to retreat across New Jersey." - I'm sorry, who had been ousted from NY? And who ousted them?
 * "Trenton was occupied by three regiments of Hessian soldiers commanded by Colonel Johann Rall for a total of about 1,400 men. Washington's force totaled about 2,400 men. He was aided by Major General Nathanael Greene, brigadier general Hugh Mercer and Major General John Sullivan.[6]" - This assumes we know what and where Trenton is. Why not "totaling 1,400 men", instead of "for a total of about..."?
 * "General John Cadwalder would launched a diversionary attack against the British garrison at Bordentown, in order to block off any reinforcements." - "would launch" - why not "launched" instead? Also, "in order to" -> "to".
 * "The Trenton Battle Monument erected at "Five Points" stands as a tribute to this crucial American victory." - Source? What makes it so crucial?
 * Article seems to be incomplete, desperately needs expansion to satisfy the reader.
 * I recommend withdrawing to work on this some more.
 * Comment - No source information on Image:Trenton Surrender.jpg. Garion96 (talk) 13:04, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The lead says it all, doesn't it: stingy. Red4, I wonder whether you'd consider withdrawing this and gathering fellow WPians in this field to improve it before resubmission. Prose, MOS breaches, lead, comprehensiveness. Tony   (talk)  15:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll withdraw it for now. Red4tribe (talk) 22:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Please leave the template on the talk page until the bot goes through, per WP:FAC/ar.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.