Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Belarusian Republican Youth Union/Attempt 3

Belarusian Republican Youth Union
Self-renom.
 * Attempt 1
 * Attempt 2

Ok, I had some minor edits on the article and added a few more things (a photo, a source and two awards), but the article has been pretty calm. I think the main concern, most likely, is going to be the grammar of the article. I will check up on that every day, though that is a problem in every article I write on here. POV is not an issue, since I was pretty much the only guy who wrote it and tried to be as fair as possible. Zach (Sound Off) 02:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

A very interesting and unique article - I commend the authors of it. Don't get discouraged! Ryan Norton T 02:58, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Object - OK... here's some of my own issues:
 * 1) "The Belarusian Republican Youth Union (BRSM) (Russian: Белорусский республиканский союз молодежи, БРСМ) is a youth group that is organized in the Eastern European country of Belarus." I think this could be worded better....
 * 2) "The goals of the BRSM are to promote patriotism and to instill moral values into the youth of Belarus." POV sentence - moral values are relative! Needs rewording.... maybe something like "The goals of the BRSM are to promote patriotism and to install their own brand of moral values into the youth of Belarus"... well that may be POV too but you get the idea :).
 * 3) Writing style needs a bit of work and is in general too passive.... example:
 * "President Lukashenko has said in the past that while membership in the BRSM is not required for advancing into the higher ranks of the government, a person who joins the BRSM has a possibility to increase their chances for success" try something like
 * "In the past, President Lukashenko stated that while membership in the BRSM is not required for advancing into the higher ranks of the government, it is possible for a person who joins the BRSM to increase their chances for success"
 * Also see my recent edit too. It's fine to use a lot of passive voice, but using too much makes it more dreary then neccessary
 * Thanks Ryan. I have added some of your changes, but the reason why most of the article sounds passive is that most of the information I have is around a few years old, and most of the current information is in Russian, and I was told not to use Babelfish unless I have to. Zach (Sound Off) 03:04, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

There are more, but you get the idea. &mdash;Wayward 18:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Object - The article remains substandard as far as prose. You might consider adding it to "Category:Wikipedia articles needing copy edit". The "install" issue mentioned in my previous objection remains and the article begins with "is a organized youth group". See "A, an" for details of what is wrong with this. Don't let this nomination disenchant you though, English grammar is difficult to learn and the best way to master it is to learn by doing. That said, unfortunately good grammar is essential for a featured article. Cedars 04:12, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I fixed that, and I will add the category soon. Zach (Sound Off) 05:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Object—this should be on the Peer Review list, not here. Prose needs fixing; not in enough depth. Tony 12:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Tony, what do you mean by "depth." Am I missing stuff content wise? Zach (Sound Off) 17:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Object. I think the prose could be tightened up quite a bit.
 * 1) "The BRSM has been accused of using tactics of coercion and empty promises. . ." I don't think tactics of is needed here.
 * 2) "Lukashenko not only issued a decree to call for. . ." is better written as "Lukashenko not only issued a decree calling for. . ."
 * 3) "President Lukashenko stated in his 2003 address to the nation about the need for. . ." About is not needed.
 * 4) "To be able to join the BRSM, the person must be between the ages of 14 and 31, be able to send a photo of themselves and if they are between the ages of 14 and 16, written permission from their parents or legal guardian must be granted." There are several problems here. First, Be able to is not needed. Second, person is singular, while themselves and their are plural.
 * I fixed those. But really, is the only issues for this article is grammar? If so, please, sofixit. If you think key information is missing, just let me know. Zach (Sound Off) 18:57, 30 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The previous reviewer was exemplifying problems in the prose, not identifying just a few things that need fixing to make it 'compelling, even brilliant' (see criteria for FACs). Saying that you've 'fixed those' is irrelevant; the whole text needs serious attention.
 * I mainly mentioned that I fixed whatever they specifically mentioned.

For an institution that appears to have controversial links with the highest levels of government, the article needs to treat the political and social context in much greater depth. Instead, towards the top, we're treated to trivia such as '... be able to send a photo of themselves and if they are between the ages of 14 and 16, written permission from their parents or legal guardian must be granted. A person must also pay a one time fee of 1,400 rubles (0.65 USD) and must pay a mid-year fee to continue their membership in the BRSM. The total amount of the fee is adjusted based on the person's working and living status and fee waivers are granted for children who are orphaned or disabled.' Wow, really?
 * This is how the people join the BRSM, and with other youth groups like the Boy Scouts of America, I need to have information on how one person can become a member.

There's not enough coverage of broader views to put Lukashenko's agenda into a NPOV perspective. Just a quote from the great leader at the top, as though this article is propaganda. Tony 03:08, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That is all I could find, since internet resources on this group is limited. Personally, I have no clue why Lukashenko created the group (I just knew how he done it) or to what extent is use by the Lukashenko Government (but his presence at the recent 29th Congress of the BRSM still shows government support). Zach (Sound Off) 03:21, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * On an unrelated note, this was moved by a page vandal, so if this came off your watchlist for a moment, that is what happened. Zach (Sound Off) 03:50, 1 October 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, then may I suggest that the nomination be postponed pending further investigation? There's currently a barrier to comprehensive treatment. Tony 04:11, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I will let the grammar folks take a stab at it. I could do some more research in time. Zach (Sound Off) 04:17, 1 October 2005 (UTC)