Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bert T. Combs/archive3


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 13:04, 5 January 2013.

Bert T. Combs

 * Nominator(s): Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:08, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

After a couple of FACs for this article crashed and burned 2 years ago, I lost interest, but now that I'm so close to my goal of a Governors of Kentucky featured topic, I've come back to it. I located some more sources and shepherded it through a successful MILHIST A-class review. Now, I think it's ready to finally cross that FA threshold. Third time's a charm. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:08, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Weak support Comments . Good to see this back here; I always enjoy your Kentucky governor articles. This is noticeably improved from the last FAC, and I expect to be able to support when a couple of minor points are fixed.
 * I've switched to support; weak, because I do think you should at least look at the public papers, though I think the article is fairly comprehensive as is. The prose is fine; I have not done an image or source review. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:32, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:01, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "Kentucky's Democratic Party had split into two factions by 1955 when Earle C. Clements, the leader of one faction, chose Combs to challenge A. B. "Happy" Wasn't it the primary that they competed in, not the gubernatorial election? Similarly, Combs beat Waterfield in the primary, not the main election, surely?
 * Yeah, the Democrats are typically so dominant in state politics in Kentucky that the general election is usually anticlimactic compared to the Democratic primary. Clarified. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The infobox has his governorship below the appeals court post; wouldn't the governorship be more important, or is there a standard order of posts in infoboxes of this type?
 * I usually do them in reverse chronological order, but I'm not sure if there is an accepted convention. Some would say a federal judgeship is a higher office than the governorship anyway. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * He announced, however, that he would serve only until a new election could be held: this could have been announced by either Wetherby or Combs, so I would make it "Combs announced" or "Wetherby announced".
 * Good point. Done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Per this site, which is probably not a reliable source, the Mountain Parkway was renamed for him in 1976. If you can find a source, it would be good to add the date.
 * I know a potential source. Will check it soon. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Clements did not immediately resign, but the incident caused a rift between him and Combs that never fully healed. Clements later resigned, ostensibly to work on...: I think you can cut "Clements did not immediately resign", start with "The incident..." and then put a semicolon after "healed".
 * Never cared much for the original wording anyway. Adopted this alternative. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * could be interpreted to mean limited salaries adjusted for inflation: I'm not sure what "limited" means here.
 * The state constitution actually spells out the exact salary for the state's elected officials. Rather than try to get a pay raise by constitutional amendment, they eventually challenged it in court, and the court said the constitutional provisions could be interpreted as meaning that government salaries should be limited, but not necessarily to those amounts. They ruled that the salaries in the constitution could be scaled up for inflation and such. The case was nicknamed the "rubber dollar case", and one of these days, I'm going to write it up as its own article. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * How about making it "could be interpreted to mean that the salaries could be adjusted for inflation"? I think that would be a little clearer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 00:32, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Tried a little different fix. There's almost no really clean way to express this. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you added material from Robinson's Oral History; I think it adds some useful colour. I think you should at least add Robinson's The public papers of Governor Bert T. Combs, 1959-1963 to the further reading, and there might be useful material in it for the article.  Have you been able to consult it?
 * Added, but no, I haven't consulted it. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Image review
 * File:Bert_Combs.jpg: the licensing tag used requires that the image illustrate an article on the painting, artist or style - you want a tag that allows for illustration of the subject
 * Fixed. Still learning the fair use stuff. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Received timeout errors for source links of both File:Wendell-H-Ford.jpg and File:Martha_Layne_Collins,_governor_of_Kentucky,_Nov_8,_1986.jpg, though that may be a problem with my setup - can you check? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:28, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Changed the Ford link. The DoD server that hosts the Collins one seems to be flaking out. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)
 * " Willis' ": Willis's
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * "Combs was sometimes referred to as "the education governor".": It's a given that supporters will praise him; was he called this by non-supporters as well?
 * Seemed to me like more than one source used this term, but right now, I can only find it in Dove's article. Since the full text of that is temporarily hidden, I can't find out what Dove's potential biases might be. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * So far so good on prose per standard disclaimer, down to where I stopped, about two-thirds of the way, at Bert_T._Combs. These are my edits. (Edits may take days to show up on that page.) - Dank (push to talk) 13:08, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to the rest of the review. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Continuing. "In a later interview ...": There's only one quote mark in that sentence; where should the other one go?
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 03:22, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support on prose per standard disclaimer. - Dank (push to talk) 01:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, as always, for your review, and for your support. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 03:22, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Source comments
 * Ref 17: "Bertam"?
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also 17: No indication of the nature of this source, nor its publisher.
 * Not sure where I got that qualifier, but I've changed it now. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ref 75 should be formatted in a manner intelligible to the general reader. What do these numbers signify?
 * I'm inclined to agree with you, but during a previous GAC or FAC, another editor added it and said it is standard notation for a legal case. I don't remember exactly how to read it, either. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As a general point, it is not always easy to relate citations to specific bibliography entries (81 is a specific case). There are ways of doing this; see, for example, the citation method used in Oregon Trail Memorial half dollar (within the FAC). Or giving full rather than short citations for non-book references, as in Pale Crag Martin. Brianboulton (talk) 00:49, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've noticed there are some other citation methods floating around these days, but old habits are hard to break, and I haven't really figured out how to use any of the newer ones yet. Is there a new standard dictated by consensus? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments: The URL in the refs should have publisher info and an access date added. Not seeing any prose issues, though I'm not the biggest fan of the reference format noted above for the later stuff. It is at least consistent throughout the article, so I won't hold this against FA status. Wizardman 03:44, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I assume you were referencing the Sara Walter Combs link, which I'm surprised I hadn't fixed before now. If you meant another one, please let me know, and I'll try to give it some attention. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:47, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It was; Support. Wizardman  17:37, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

 Comments Support by Peacemaker67 (send... over) 03:33, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Lead
 * not sure about "attained a degree". I know "attained" is intended to convey difficulty, but "obtained" would IMO be more elegant.
 * Agreed, and done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Not seeing it?
 * Hmm. Was sure I did that. Should be fixed now. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * his service in WWII definitely could do with an additional sentence fragment regarding what he did in the war. It currently begs the question.
 * I was thinking it was impressive that he served under MacArthur, but on second thought, what he did is more important than who he served under. Changed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked, it was a little clunky.
 * Works for me. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Chandler chose Combs, or encouraged him? Chose begs a question. At this point, there is no mention of Combs as being an aspiring Democrat politician.
 * From what I understand, Clements chose Combs; he had that much power within his faction. I'm not sure Combs actually was an aspiring Democratic politician. I think Clements plucked him from relative obscurity. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * OK.
 * How was he travelling home when he died? walking or driving?
 * Clarified
 * OK.


 * Early legal career etc
 * Machester?
 * Fixed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * the bit about OCS isn't clear. He was allowed to attend OCS immediately after basic training, then later attended OCS? Can you clarify?
 * Since I don't know much about this subject matter, I'm not able to say for certain what the deal was. After re-reading the sources, I've tried to rewrite it in a way that makes more sense. All three relevant sources are online; perhaps you can understand the chain of events better than I. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * OK.


 * Political career
 * "boss-dominated"? Non-US readers (like me) wouldn't have a clue. Needs explanation in the text, not just the wikilink.
 * How's the rewrite? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Good work, nice and succinct.
 * " but the endorsement came too late, Combs felt, to be much help" suggest " but Combs felt the endorsement came too late to be much help"
 * That would make the sentence read "...Barkley publicly announced his support for Combs, but Combs felt the endorsement came too late to be much help". Do you see the repetition of "Combs" so close together is problematic? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps "...Combs was publicly endorsed by former VP..., but felt the endorsement came too late to be much help.
 * OK; done. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * wikilink Earle C. Clements
 * Where? It's linked on first mention in the lead and in the body. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Doh. My mistake.
 * what are "public accommodations"?
 * Not entirely sure. I had to go with the source's wording here. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * OK.
 * "proclaimed similar platforms" or "advanced similat platforms"? I suggest the latter is more elegant.
 * I'm good with that. Changed. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Later life
 * the flash flood was in Lexington, but Comb's law office was in Frankfort? Could you clarify how he was travelling and from where to where?
 * Re-read the source. Not sure where I got that the flood was in Lexington, although it is possible that between 1971 (when his office was in Frankfort) and 1991, he had moved his office to Lexington. They aren't that far apart, and the NYT article notes that he maintained homes in both Lexington and rural Powell County. Anyway, the NYT notes that about 50 miles separated his home and Lexington, so the flooding could have been happening all along the route. I removed "in Lexington" to hopefully reduce confusion. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Clearer now.

Just one thing to consider, the endorsement. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 11:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Anything else? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 15:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * All good. Well done, moving to support. Your Kentucky governor articles are outside my usual areas of interest, but I really enjoy reading them. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:51, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.