Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Billy Bates (baseball)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC).

Billy Bates (baseball)

 * Nominator(s): Seattle (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Billy Bates was a second baseman best remembered for scoring the winning run for the Reds in Game of the 1990 World Series. After that one memorable moment, he never played in Major League Baseball again. Noted for his speed, Bates also beat an unchained cheetah in a race. It passed as a good article, and I think it's better than my other FA, Mike Capel, just due to the increased notability. Thus, I give you Billy Bates. Seattle (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2013 (UTC) Comments
 * Dont you think it is too soon to nominate this? You made this FAC practically instantly after the GA passed. You should have at least someone else look, or a peer review. Beerest 2 talk 02:54, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think it's too soon to nominate it. It was just looked over at the GA nomination, and I think it's reasonably close to FA quality as it stands. Seattle (talk) 01:07, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Needs at least one picture
 * No picture required. See Mike Capel Beerest 2 talk 00:12, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Evidently, not always. I had in mind WP:FACR: 'A featured article exemplifies our very best work and is distinguished by professional standards of writing, presentation, and sourcing…It has the following attributes...It has images and other media, where appropriate...' It seems odd to me to have a biographical article such as this, without at least a picture of the subject. Sandbh (talk) 22:28, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well thats what sucks about the fair use rules. Since there is no public domain picture of the subject, we have to make do without one. There are several FAs that dont have a picture of the subject simply because there is no free one. Beerest 2 talk 22:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure. I included the best image of him I could find as an external link. This should suffice until 1.) he dies, or 2.) a free image of him is taken. Seattle (talk) 00:43, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Sandbh (talk) 23:18, 29 December 2013 (UTC) Lede
 * Check formatting of references: currently a mix of sentence case and title case; WP style is title case---see MOS:CT
 * OK. Working on now... Seattle (talk) 02:17, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Addressed. I never knew about that part of the MOS. I'll take another look at Capel's article and apply those changes as well. Thanks for the comments. Seattle (talk) 02:44, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

'Born in Houston, Bates attended the University of Texas, where he and the Texas Longhorns won the 1983 College World Series.' 'Though defensively he played as a second baseman, the Reds primarily used Bates as a pinch runner.' 'Born in Houston, Bates attended the University of Texas, where he and the Texas Longhorns won the 1983 College World Series.' 'Drafted by Milwaukee in the 4th round of the 1985 MLB Draft, he rose through the Brewers' farm system and won multiple minor league titles.' Rise to the majors
 * As someone who knows relatively little of baseball, the only Texas Longhorns I know of are the college football kind. Is there a way of making it clearer that the reference is to the TL college basketball team rather than the football team?
 * Changed to "Texas Longhorns baseball team".
 * I don't follow why this sentence starts with 'Though'. Is there something peculiar about a 2nd baseman/pinch runner combo?
 * Yes, a pinch runner is on offense only and a second baseman is on defense, there is a contrast there.
 * Cld this contrast or unusual combination be made clearer to the general reader? Sandbh (talk) 22:38, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean to say however it gives more prominence to Bates' role than I think is intended.
 * Reworded sentence.
 * Cld you make it clearer that Milwaukee are a MLB team rather than waiting to later in the sentence. For example: 'Bates joined major league baseball in 1985 when he was drafted by the Milwaukee Brewers as a 4th round pick. He subsequently rose through the Brewers' farm system and won multiple minor league titles.' Also, does 'won multiple minor league titles' refer to Bates or the Brewers? Sandbh (talk) 10:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Milwaukee is mentioned in the first sentence as a MLB team, also did a c/e. Seattle (talk) 22:41, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

'El Paso's 85 wins were the most in the managerial career of Duffy Dyer, which lasted eleven years.'
 * This seems to be a superflous sentence that has nothing to do with Bates.

'His 117 runs scored also led a Denver club that won its final 11 games to finish 79–61, one game ahead of the Louisville Redbirds for the best record in the AA.[17][20]'
 * All this needs to say is 'His 117 runs scored also led a Denver club that won its final 11 games to finish 79–61, the best record in the AA.'

'In a Brewer's spring training game in early March, Bates committed two errors against the Chicago Cubs in the top of the 11th inning, as the Cubs scored the winning run without recording a hit, but his 4th-inning single scored two runs.[22]'
 * A long sentence with multiple facts that would benefit from being divided into at least two shorter sentences. Sandbh (talk) 22:38, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

MLB debut

'Bates began the season with the Zephyrs and in July was named to the Triple-A All-Star Game.[28] On the MLB level, the Brewers suffered multiple injuries to starting players, having 9 athletes on the disabled list (DL) on August 22 and 14 total players on the DL up to that point.[29] In a game against the New York Yankees on August 15, Gantner played at second base as the Brewers tried to hold on to a 1–0 lead. With Marcus Lawton on first base, Yankees batter Wayne Tolleson hit a ground ball to shortstop Bill Spiers for a potential double play. Lawton ran into Gantner, who had trouble fielding a low throw from Spiers; umpire Dave Phillips called both Lawton and Tolleson out due to Lawton's illegal roll-block, but Gantner tore the medial collateral ligament in his left knee and was placed on the DL. Bates was called up as his replacement.[30]'
 * There are too many words (129) between the first mention of Bates (in the opening sentence) and the second mention, at the end of the paragraph.

'After the injury, Milwaukee's general manager Harry Dalton said that Bates…'


 * The start of this paragraph is awkward. All of the other paragraphs so far open with a lead sentence and then expand on that. Just reading the lead sentences of each paragraph thus progresses the story. Whereas the start of this paragraph progresses the end of the previous paragraph, which is rather discombobulating.

'Wade Boggs hit a ground ball to Bates, but he committed an error that allowed Boggs to reach…'


 * To reach what?

'Facing the Red Sox on April 14, Bates hit his only MLB extra base hit, a double, in the 8th inning but committed two errors on defense.[2][38] He later scored the go-ahead run on a Gary Sheffield double in a 9–5 Milwaukee victory. Previously, he stole second base and home plate in the 2nd.[38]'


 * Which game is the 'previously' referring too? Sandbh (talk) 10:47, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Cincinnati Reds

'When he arrived with the Reds organization, Bates was assigned to the Triple-A Nashville Sounds of the AA.'
 * As per my antepenultimate comment, the start of this paragraph is awkward---there is no transition from the opening sentence of the previous paragraph, which says: 'In late March, Trebelhorn projected that Bates would be Milwaukee's starting second baseman for the 1990 MLB season...'. Sandbh (talk) 00:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

'…hit a double that scored Bates.[47]'
 * Presumably this is baseball terminology as I don't understand what it means.

'Doran– a second baseman the Reds acquired from the Houston Astros in a "last-minute" deal before the trade deadline– was hospitalized with back pain and spasms on September 29.[52][53] Doctors performed an operation on October 3, which would hold him out of postseason play as Cincinnati won the National League West; the Reds were the first team in National League history to lead a division for an entire 162-game season.[53][54]'


 * I don't understand what the relevance of this is to Bates' story.

'In Game 1, the Reds defeated the Athletics 7–0 in what Associated Press writer Jim Donaghy called "a stunning combination of power and pitching": Cincinnati scored four runs off of Dave Stewart, who had a six-game winning streak in the playoffs, while pitchers José Rijo, Rob Dibble, and Randy Myers combined for a nine-hit shutout.[15][16] The game ended the Athletics' ten-game postseason win streak.[15] Bates did not play.[16]'


 * If Bates didn't play what relevance does this have?

'Like Game 1, Cincinnati was the home team for Game 2, where Danny Jackson of the Reds faced Bob Welch of the Athletics.[17] Oakland opened the scoring with a run in the top of the first inning, a ground ball by Jose Canseco that scored Rickey Henderson. The Reds responded for two runs in the bottom of the first. Oakland scored three more runs in the third, and Piniella removed Jackson from the game as the Athletics led the Reds 4–2. Cincinnati added a run in the bottom of the fourth and managed to tie the game in the eighth as Billy Hatcher hit a triple and scored on a groundout. After nine innings, the game remained tied, 4–4.[18] Rob Dibble came into pitch in the ninth and held the Athletics scoreless for the two innings he pitched; Oakland countered with future Hall of Fame inductee Dennis Eckersley for the bottom of the tenth.[18][19] Leading off for the Reds was Davis, who grounded out to shortstop.'


 * As an introduction to the next mention of Bates, this is too long.

'The Reds won Game 3 after scoring seven runs in the top of the third inning off of Mike Moore. Pitcher Tom Browning earned the win for Cincinnati, as the game ended at a score of 8–3.[23] The Athletics took a lead in Game 4, as Carney Lansford hit a single that scored Willie McGee from second base. In the eighth inning, however, the Reds loaded the bases after singles by Barry Larkin and Herm Winningham, and an error that allowed Paul O'Neill to reach base. Larkin scored on a groundout and Winningham scored on a sacrifice fly to give Cincinnati the lead, 2–1. The lead held, as Myers came in for Rijo after one out in the bottom of the ninth inning, and the Reds became World Series champions.[24] Bates did not play in either game.[23][24]'


 * If Bates didn't play what relevance does all of this have? Sandbh (talk) 10:18, 4 January 2014 (UTC).

This concludes my review comments, for now. Sandbh (talk) 00:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Closing comment -- I think that after remaining open a month with no activity for a couple of weeks, even allowing for the holiday period, that this review has stalled so I'll be archiving it shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 00:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.