Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Billy Bates (baseball)/archive2

Billy Bates (baseball)

 * Nominator(s): Therapyisgood (talk) 14:50, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

This article is about Billy Bates, who scored the winning run in Game 2 of the 1990 World Series. After scoring his run, he never played in Major League Baseball again. Also, he raced against an unchained cheetah and won. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:50, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Are there no images available of this person? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately yes, there are no free photos, but I have added in some other photos. Therapyisgood (talk) 18:20, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Hog Farm
I'll try to take a look at this soon. Might be claimed for WikiCup points. Hog Farm Talk 19:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * His full name of William Derrick Bates is never really directly cited anywhere
 * Cited. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Link pinch hit in the lead
 * Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Find a way to work in a link to 1983 Texas Longhorns baseball team.
 * Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Are college statistics for him available?
 * Not to my knowledge, unfortunately. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Added a bit. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It seems like there should be more to say about two All-American seasons than a single sentence.
 * Link the Milwaukee Brewers in the collegiate career section
 * Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "Though the Ports only had two future MLB position players on their roster" - Gloss what a position player is, so that it's understandable for non-baseball fans.
 * Explained. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "Individually, Bates batted .298 and tied for fourth-best on the team, with 18 stolen bases in 59 games played" - It's unclear as to if batting .298 or stealing 18 bases is tied for fourth-best on the team.
 * Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "The eight home runs that Bates hit and his 75 RBI became the highest of his career at any" - Reintroduce RBI in the body.
 * Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm concerned that the first two paragraphs of the Rise to the majors section are more about his teams with just a couple statistics thrown around, rather than substantial content about Bates himself.
 * There's not much to say about Bates, so some coverage of how the teams did is nice. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The description of Gantner's injury is WP:UNDUE detail for this topic. All we need to know for Bates' article is that Gantner hurt his knee in a game against the Yankees on August 15 and that Bates was called up.  The game situation/further details/etc. are better off in Gantner's article.
 * Cut. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "although Dale Sveum was bearing down on the starting spot" - Not sure that "bearing down" is quite encyclopedic tone.
 * "and despite a 2–1 Brewers' loss, Bates' play was complimented" - By whom?
 * Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "By April 27 Bates was hitting .103 over 29 at bats, as Molitor came off the DL and expected to take over at second: Seth Livingstone of The Telegraph called the switch "merciful"" - Semicolon would be better than a colon here.
 * Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The Nashville Sounds stuff is not about Bates at all - we're just given a couple season game highlights. We aren't even given Bates' stats.
 * " in Milwaukee spring training camp, players threw a cap on the ground and addressed it as if it were Bates" - Was this in 1987, 1988, or both?
 * Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "Before the World Series, Bates raced against an unchained cheetah in a promotional event for the Cincinnati Zoo at Riverfront Stadium." - Specify the year
 * Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * His final MLB statistics don't seem to be cited anywhere
 * Added reference. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:34, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It's never cited that Game 2 of the 1990 World Series was on October 2.
 * His batting/throwing handedness is never cited.
 * Added and cited. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:06, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * What makes Hirsch a high-quality RS? That seems to be a really obscure publisher.
 * Anything post-2010 known about him?
 * Unfortunately not. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:39, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "in a 100-yard race" - Use the convert template to show this is meters, also.
 * Converted. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:12, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * There are several spots where the content is not really about Bates himself - rather, it's just telling about his team, or his manager having a career-high in wins, or detailed game situations. In my opinion, this veers off-topic in multiple places. Hog Farm Talk 15:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

That's a first look. I'll give it another read-through soon. Hog Farm Talk 15:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think this article meets 1b or 1c of WP:FACR - there just seems to be an excessive focus on Bates' surroundings and not on Bates himself. There are also further available web sources that contain details about Bates himself not found in here. See, has a couple details,  says that his name appears in the UT Longhorns baseball records books 32 times and gives some examples, when we're given basically nothing about his college career besides an overview of what the Longhorns did in the '83 CWS. These are just a few example sources; I didn't have to look very hard online to find them.

Oppose on 1b and 1c and suggest withdrawal. It doesn't seem like recent sourcing has been particularly stoutly perused, and there are many places in the article where the article omits details about Bates and often focuses more on Bates' surroundings than Bates himself. I'd recommend taking this to WP:Peer review. Hog Farm Talk 16:04, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Hog Farm, I did spot this earlier but the nominator was in the middle of responding so I thought I'd give them that chance -- do you still recommend withdrawal? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:57, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * - I'm indifferent to withdrawal at this point, but my oppose still stands. The issues with the big chunks of off-topic have been mainly resolved, it looks, like, but I'm still concerned about other elements.  This article is not comprehensive. Another relevant source with more details  - he was apparently a hero of a college world series game.  Or this, which talks about him a good deal.  Given that I'm finding these sources and extra detail in a matter that's not difficult, I don't think this article is comprehensive, thoroughly sourced, or was really quite ready for FAC.  I'll leave it up to the FAC coords to determine if this is an actionable oppose or not, but I don't think this one is ready.  I think the work to get it ready is doable and shouldn't be hard, but I'm not sure that FAC is the best place for that work to be done. Hog Farm Talk 17:59, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Coord comment -- I am going to archive this and recommend rework take place outside the FAC process, followed by PR, as suggested above. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)