Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Billy Joe Tolliver/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:Ian Rose 10:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC).

Billy Joe Tolliver

 * Nominator(s): Wizardman  14:48, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

It's been a while since I wrote anything related to American football, but after working on the Stub Contest and seeing how poor some of those articles can be, I'm jumping back into it. This article is on one of those players. I wrote the article years ago and forgot about it (perhaps for the best since I could not find an image until now), but after a top to bottom cleanup I believe it's ready for FAC.

Billy Joe Tolliver is a quarterback who hung around for quite some time in football. Despite an outstanding high school and college career, he never really got it going in the NFL, and he was not more than a solid backup. Playing for poor teams throughout his career did not help that either. Any of you into the celebrity golf circuit know who he is, as he is a regular in that venue. Wizardman 14:48, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

I see some paragraph-ending sentences that end without citations:
 * "After the season ended, Tolliver was again a free agent. He was not signed by the Falcons, and as the season began, he was looking for a team."
 * "Tolliver made his first start in a game against the Raiders, but played inconsistently over seven starts and was replaced by Richardson in the season finale against the New York Jets. After finishing the season, Tolliver became a free agent and left the NFL."

More comments later, maybe.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 18:00, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Tweaked the first one since it didn't provide much of anything, added ref for the second; not sure how I missed that. Wizardman  23:04, 21 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Support Can't judge comprehensiveness but the prose looks good.  Taylor Trescott  - my talk + my edits 19:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments:
 * During Tolliver's junior year, he looked to fix his erratic passing, which he had concentrated on improving over the previous months reference?
 * If Google news wasn't being evil in getting rid of everything I could probably find one no problem. Instead this might take me a little while. Wizardman  20:22, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Year ranges should have ndashes in the infobox


 * The Chargers wanted traded third, fourth ... grammar


 * Can you link "training camp"?


 * After a loss against Dallas, Tolliver regained his starting job back in game two against the Cincinnati Bengals. "back" seems repetitious here.


 * With one second left, he lobbed "lobbed" seems unprofessional to me


 * The Falcons lost Tolliver's first start in a 56–17 blowout loss. two "lost"s relatively close here. A reference would be appreciated as well.


 * Tolliver finished the season ... Tolliver finished the season a rewrite here would avoid two "Tolliver finished the season"s in a row.


 * Can you link "achilles tendon" and "pinched nerve"?


 * Reference 10 needs an ndash for the score of the game. Seattle (talk) 21:44, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Everything is now fixed; the first issue I just removed since I couldn't find anything. Wizardman  15:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * All the dashes should be fixed now; were more than noted here that weren't ndashes so that took me a while. Wizardman  20:53, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Support Comprehensive article. Seattle (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Image review

 * Only one image, confirmed by the FlickreviewR bot to be under an appropriate Creative Commons license. Curly Turkey (gobble) 07:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments –
 * High school and college: Do we now use an en dash for items like "85–yard". I always thought we used hyphens for feet and yards, but maybe this has changed without my knowledge.
 * San Diego Chargers: In the section's second paragraph, Jim McMahon's first name doesn't need to be repeated.
 * Falcons and Oilers: Isn't "after wards" normally one word?
 * Later career: Achilles is normally capitalized, I believe.
 * The Atlanta Falcons were already linked in the last section.
 * Maybe it's just me, but I found the last sentence of the Personal life section irrelevant to Tolliver's career. His record at the tournament is what is important to include, not where it is held and broadcast.
 * Ref 1 needs a publisher. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 20:25, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Issues fixed. Never noticed that Achilles tendon was always supposed to be capitalized before, learned something new. Wizardman  23:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support – Not the longest article ever seen at FAC, but it's hard to expect much more than what is offered given that Tolliver was not a major name in the NFL. I was actually surprised this much content could be found on him. The writing, sourcing, and other aspects all appear to be up to snuff. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 00:19, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Notes
 * We should have a source review for reliability and consistent formatting, will post a request at WT:FAC unless someone who's already commented can do the honours.
 * Just spotchecking the prose, I think you need to review for repetition. You have "player"/"played" four times in the first three sentences. Does he have to be "a former American football player who played...", or could he be either "a former American footballer who played..." or "a former American football player who competed...", or something along those lines? Also in the last sentence of the first paragraph you have "Over the course of his career ... finished his career" -- can you replace "finished his career" with "retired"? Instead of "As the final cuts were made to reduce the Saints' roster to 53 players, Tolliver was among those cut" (2 x "cut/s"), how about "The Saints' roster was reduced to 53 players, and Tolliver was among those cut". In Personal life, the first three sentences all being "Tolliver". How about tweak and trim the second to "He and his wife Sheila have five children, Charles, Austin, Mackenzie, Bryce, and Brody."? These are just examples, mind, I expect the whole article needs a light copyedit. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:28, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll ask around for a source review and a copyedit. In the meantime I fixed the noted issues; just added his position instead of having player, since somehow i forgot to have the important part of his job in that first sentence. Wizardman  14:13, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Also a note for the source reviewer. Most of the refs used are behind paywalls, but copypasting the title into a search engine might be enough in some of the cases to get you some of the article to view. Wizardman  14:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Brian has reviewed the sources in the manner I was looking for (tks). Skimming the article again, however, it doesn't look as though you've cited his birthdate/place. I'd expect you to state/cite this info in the first para of the main body. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:51, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The ref for a birthdate and place seems unnecessary since it's basic enough knowledge, but I went ahead and added it nonetheless. Wizardman  03:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Best to cite major facts, as well as the more esoteric ones. Anyway, skimming the prose again, I think I must've caught pretty well everything before, and you've dealt with those, so we'll wrap this up now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Sources review
 * Ref 2: p. no missing, as is the case with all the Dallas Morning News cites (4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 39 and 62)
 * Ref 12 lacks publisher info
 * Refs 16 and 17 (LA Times: p. nos missing; other LAT refs have pages
 * Ref 20: p. no missing (Long Beach Press-Telegram)
 * Ref 46: p. no missing (Rocky Mountain News)
 * Ref 51: p. no missing ( Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)
 * Ref 65: what information is being cited to this source, which looks like an advert for the golf course?

Other than these issues, sources look appropriate, reliable and consistently formatted. No spotchecks – I don't have time to follow Wizardman's suggestion, above, but maybe another reviewer will. Brianboulton (talk) 14:54, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The Dallas Morning News archives, for whatever reason, so not provide page numbers. Was the case at the time, and unfortunately remains so now after I tried again. The other ones I'll look through and should be able to find. Wizardman  15:26, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Everything else now fixed. For the last ref, clicking the celebrity section to get details redirects to the first ref I was already using, so I just removed it. Wizardman  15:29, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 14:27, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.