Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Boys Don't Cry (film)/archive1


 * The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 15:11, 25 April 2015 (UTC).

Boys Don't Cry (film)

 * Nominator(s): BenLinus  1214 talk 01:41, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

This article is about Boys Don't Cry, a 1999 independent romantic drama film which dramatizes the life of Brandon Teena, a trans man who was raped and murdered in 1993. A couple years ago, it passed a GA review with flying colors, and I believe that it meets the FA criteria. The article has fleshed-out Production, Style, Themes, Release, Reception, and Controversy sections (exactly what I think an article on a movie should be). I am aware that the article has been subject to pronoun-related vandalism. This seems to have gone down as of late, but if it resurfaces, I think page protection might be a good idea. BenLinus 1214 talk 01:41, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Oppose, suggest withdrawal. An interesting topic, but the article seems to fall a little short. Though this certainly isn't a bad article, issues with sourcing, neutrality, writing and non-free content all add up to it needing more work yet.
 * Comments from JM
 * "The film has been cited as one of the most controversial and talked-about films of 1999" Where is your source for this? You don't seem to say it in the article proper.
 * "Brandon Teena was never his legal name; it is uncertain the extent to which this name was used prior to his death. It is the name most commonly used by the press and other media. Other names may include his legal name, as well as "Billy Brenson" and "Teena Ray"." Could we have a source/sources for this?
 * "In the Boys Don't Cry commentary contained on the 2000 and 2009 DVD release of the film, director Kimberly Peirce states that she admired the way Brandon behaved towards women, especially the good will and generosity he showed them." Why do we need this?
 * "Peirce began working on a concept for the film and gave it the working title Take It Like a Man." Reference?
 * "Peirce co-wrote the screenplay with Andy Bienen. They worked together for a year and a half on the final drafts and made sure they did not "mythologize" Brandon; the aim was to keep him as human as possible." Reference?
 * "at her home" Whose home?
 * "Peirce also interviewed Tisdel's mother. She also interviewed" Repetition
 * "Much factual information was incorporated into Boys Don't Cry, including Nissen being an arsonist, and the games of chicken and joy riding that were a common pastime of the real Lotter, Nissen, and Brandon." Reference? Also, "games of chicken" and "joy riding" may be unfamiliar terms- links?
 * "The LGBT community was highly interested in the project because of all the publicity the murder had received." I don't like the fact that this is sourced to Pierce. If you don't have a third-party source, perhaps you could clarify that this was Pierce's claim.
 * We do have a better picture of Sevigny- are you attached to that one for some reason?
 * You use the word "pants" a few times- is this not a little informal?
 * "Peirce had envisioned only two actors for the role of Lana Tisdel: a young Jodie Foster and Chloë Sevigny, who had prior credits in mostly independent films. Peirce had decided to cast Sevigny based on her impressive performance in The Last Days of Disco (1998).[27] Sevigny had auditioned for the role of Brandon,[28] but Peirce decided that Sevigny would be suited playing Tisdel.[29][30]" This almost reads like three different stories- I think this needs to be restructured.
 * "The film portrays a double murder when in actuality a third person, Phillip DeVine, a black disabled man, was killed at the scene. At the time he had been dating Lana Tisdel's sister, Leslie Tisdel." Is this intended as an example? If so, perhaps "For example, the film portrays a only double murder, when in actuality a third person, Phillip DeVine—a black disabled man—was killed at the scene. At the time, he had been dating Lana Tisdel's sister, Leslie Tisdel."
 * "perspective, his imagination, and the way he perceived things" I'm not clear what the difference for the first and last is.
 * "The bumper-skiing scene was delayed when a police officer, just arriving at a shift change, required that a large lighting crane be moved from one side of the road to the other. The scenes took six hours to shoot and ended up being filmed at sunrise, which resulted in a blue sky in the background." First, I'm not sure what the "shift change" thing is about, second, you refer to the scene even though this scene has not been mentioned yet, and third, I do not know what bumper-skiing is.
 * "A flood gave the cast and crew a "mud bath" and resulted in some of the filming equipment being stuck in mud. Radio wires in some of the scenes conflicted with the sound production. Swank required a stunt double for the scene in which she falls off the back of a truck. Teena's rape scene was given an extended filming time, and Sexton, who portrayed the attacker, walked away in tears afterward." This is just a list of facts.
 * You're going to need to do something about that "clarification needed" tag.
 * Is File:Boysdontcryrollerrinkscene.JPG an artificial combination of four separate screenshots? You can't do that- there's no reason that four screenshots in one JPG is any more acceptable than four separate screenshots. If there were four separate screenshots, people would be opposing based on the excessive use of non-free content.
 * "the striking transition shots seen throughout the film" Non-neutral.
 * "he visual style is often dark, saturated, and raw, depicting the harsh Midwestern United States" Again.
 * "the violent, emotionally charged scenes" Again (also, repetition of "scene").
 * "During a very compressed prep period" Colloquial tone
 * "She also watched several of her favorite" Who's "she"?
 * "Peirce also used the same shots in the opening roller rink scene (where Brandon pursues his first relationship with a young girl) that were used in The Wizard of Oz (1939) when Dorothy first left her house and entered the land of Oz. The scene consists of a three shot sequence meant to symbolize a metaphoric "entrance to manhood" for Brandon." I'm afraid I don't follow this. Presumably you don't mean that footage from The Wizard of Oz was used, but, if not, I'm unclear on what you do mean.
 * "Peirce also used the same shots ... backdrop of the city skyline." This is apparently all unsourced.
 * "Time lapse photography is used in several sequences, most significantly in the scene where Brandon and Lana discuss plans to tell the family that she has "seen him in the full-flesh", and when Lana is seen driving on the highway after Brandon's murder, before the credits appear." Source?
 * "The Boys Don't Cry soundtrack features a compilation of country and rock music from the film." Unclear. Of course the soundtrack contains music from the film- that's what a soundtrack is? Or do you mean a soundtrack album?
 * "1988 country-pop hit" Non-neutral tone
 * Who performs the "Boys Don't Cry" cover?
 * ""The Bluest Eyes in Texas" was played when Hilary Swank went onstage to receive her Academy Award for Best Actress in 2000." Unsourced. In any case, is this important?
 * "This summarization strengthens the academic view that the film is about the search for freedom and identity in a society where diversity is rarely accepted" That's a very strange claim. Why would a tagline/advertising campaign strengthen an academic view? What does your source say?
 * Actually, that's not a reliable source. It's a student essay "published" through something resembling a vanity press. There is no peer review or editorial oversight. Unless the status of the author gives us reason to think otherwise, the source should be removed.
 * "is even uttered" Tone.
 * "and some critics even cite parallels" Tone. What makes you think Herz is a critic?
 * "Some critics noted that the film was about the illusions often produced by love or a strong relationship." Source? Also, weasel words.
 * "Critics and academics have attributed Boys Don't Cry's success" You only seem to have one source, here.
 * "many commentators" Ditto.

I have to dash right now. I will finish this review later. Josh Milburn (talk) 14:31, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Closing comment -- Tks Josh, I will archive this as being under-prepared for FAC; the number of paragraphs I saw without any sourcing is enough of a red light. Perhaps you could carry on with any commentary on the article talk page, to help Ben progress it to a potential renomination after the minimum two weeks have passed per FAC instructions. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:11, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Ian Rose (talk) 15:11, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, sorry about that. I guess I didn't read the wording of the article carefully enough. I'm not that much of a regular contributor, but I'll fix that stuff and talk to you before nominating again. BenLinus  1214 talk 15:47, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.